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-   -   Time to trade Ellis Now (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=614159)

echlfreak 03-01-2009 09:45 AM

Time to trade Ellis Now
 
Rinne has established himself in the number 1 spot where Ellis was last year and Mason the season before. Mason was traded in the summer which did nothing to help our team NOW. Ellis will/should likely be traded this summer like Mason was. But, why wait???

The Preds could make a playoff push now and a lot of teams are looking for additional goaltending support. The teams are:

Detroit...not happy with their tandom
Buffalo...lost Miller with a high ankle sprain
Colorado...not happy with either goalie this year and both to be FA at the end of the season
Dallas...dead if Turco gets an injury
Ottawa...looking retool their team and want to start from the net out...Gerber is gone
Philadelphia...Both goalies are UFA at the end of the season...Biron has no trade clause
Toronto...total rebuild mode
Washington...need depth with that team going into the playoffs

Soundgarden 03-01-2009 10:10 AM

I don't think we'd trade him to Detroit, but I seriously think we could trade him to Ottawa for something useful, but are Dekanich/Macintyre ready to be backup?

Paranoid Android 03-01-2009 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundgarden (Post 18254622)
I don't think we'd trade him to Detroit, but I seriously think we could trade him to Ottawa for something useful, but are Dekanich/Macintyre ready to be backup?

no

I'd rather just keep the insurance around. He's only making 1.5, so we wouldn't be saving much money. He isn't proven enough to be a legit #1 on any team. And the return he would bring back likely wouldn't be enough to make it worthwhile.

But if the right deal were to come along, then I would. I just don't see him being worth much right now. A team would have to be pretty desperate to trade for him.

GT500x 03-01-2009 11:34 AM

now this is something that I'm saddened to see. I was really pulling for Ellis after he stood on his head last year vs my Wings.

I loved that rags to riches type story. I'm sad to see his play has dropped off like this.

dulzhok 03-01-2009 01:00 PM

I doubt he's gonna return much in trade. At most maybe a 2nd round pick, but that's probably a stretch. Might as well keep him... he's signed to a decent contract and is good insurance, and we have no one who's ready to be the backup.

Keep him, unless a great offer comes along.

The Pwnerer 03-01-2009 01:56 PM

Anyone want to tell me how Ellis lost his starter role? Has he not looked the same as last year or was it Rinne coming in and taking the spot away. As a Avs fan I think a deal around Ellis and Svatos would make some sense. We get a goalie to work with and you guys get a guy to replace your loss of Radulov.

BigFatCat999 03-01-2009 01:59 PM

Ellis has been above average, Rinne has been other worldly.

Brown Angel 03-01-2009 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predanerd (Post 18255179)
no

I'd rather just keep the insurance around. He's only making 1.5, so we wouldn't be saving much money. He isn't proven enough to be a legit #1 on any team. And the return he would bring back likely wouldn't be enough to make it worthwhile.

But if the right deal were to come along, then I would. I just don't see him being worth much right now. A team would have to be pretty desperate to trade for him.

I'm with Predanerd. Unless we have a safe backup waiting in the wings, I'd hate to trade Ellis for nothing. If we could get that top 6 forward we need, that would be one thing, but I think the most we could get for Ellis is a pick or two. So I say keep him in case of injury or a Rinne flameout (I know he's 26, but he's a rookie nonetheless).

braindead 03-01-2009 02:58 PM

His value will never be higher-- shop him hard and happily trade him for the right package. Don't trade him just to trade him, but try hard to monetize the asset.

Soundgarden 03-01-2009 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pwnerer (Post 18259668)
Anyone want to tell me how Ellis lost his starter role? Has he not looked the same as last year or was it Rinne coming in and taking the spot away. As a Avs fan I think a deal around Ellis and Svatos would make some sense. We get a goalie to work with and you guys get a guy to replace your loss of Radulov.

Ellis played good, but Rinne played great, I think Ellis had a few bad starts near the start of the season, and I think that's when Rinne had three shutouts in five games.

Bad Karma 03-02-2009 08:14 PM

No need to trade Ellis, a little bit of stability in net is what this team needs, not a revolving door.

golfmade 03-03-2009 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jones93 (Post 18290985)
No need to trade Ellis, a little bit of stability in net is what this team needs, not a revolving door.

Agreed 100%. Do not trade Ellis.

Steelhead16 03-17-2009 08:16 PM

I've watched most of Ellis' games and a good number of Rinne's. 2 different teams play in front of each guy. Ellis has had some worse than poor efforts in front of him. I can think of 2 games that he was playing on a team of 4 against a team of 6. His own guys were the best players for the opposition. I think they played harder in front of Rinne in the beginning because they didn't know what they were getting. It gave Rinne confidence and he kept rolling from there. Same could be said for last year in front of Ellis and Mason. They played harder in front of Ellis because he was young. His confidence was high and he stood on his head. That whole scenario is pretty common.

utmfisher19 03-18-2009 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelhead16 (Post 18579645)
I've watched most of Ellis' games and a good number of Rinne's. 2 different teams play in front of each guy. Ellis has had some worse than poor efforts in front of him. I can think of 2 games that he was playing on a team of 4 against a team of 6. His own guys were the best players for the opposition. I think they played harder in front of Rinne in the beginning because they didn't know what they were getting. It gave Rinne confidence and he kept rolling from there. Same could be said for last year in front of Ellis and Mason. They played harder in front of Ellis because he was young. His confidence was high and he stood on his head. That whole scenario is pretty common.

We are getting bombarded with messages from Dan and his wife on these boards!!!

btw, the whole "two teams" theory is a load. The team has more confidence in front of Rinne first off, and second off Rinne is VERY good at managing/controlling the flow of the game (due to his lack of giving up rebounds). While your observation is not far off, it is because Ellis blocks shots and Rinne actually saves them.

skipper49 03-20-2009 06:33 PM

You continue to show your lack of knowledge and class utm by mentioning Ellis and his wife no less. Is that the only way you think you can get your point across??
Did you even watch the Anaheim and LA games or did you just go ooooh over the 3 points? The team bailed him out in LA by scoring 4 goals. Three goals scored were on his rebounds. Two were weak. Two goals for Anaheim were also off his rebounds. If you are going to cheer for somebody then at least use some facts rather than just emotion and insults.

nine_inch_fang 03-20-2009 06:41 PM

I thought all new members need to be "invited" now. Who invited Dan's family?

Seth Lake 03-20-2009 07:25 PM

The vast difference in style between Rinne and Ellis has lead me to come to the conclusion that it is in the best interests of both the franchise and Ellis moving forward this summer that they trade him to somewhere he can compete for a starting job and sign a veteran backup to a one-year deal to backup Pekka for the upcoming year.

It was clear during the stretch of games Rinne missed with the flu that the team is used to and actually better suited with a goalie that manages the flow of the game. Ellis prefers (largely due to style) to keep the game moving and commonly directs rebounds to his defense, shovels the puck out to initiate a breakout, or stickhandles/passes the puck himself to try to start a breakout. This is fine in a system like Dallas where both goalies can handle the puck equally as well and the team is used to and designed to utilize their goalie to initiate quick transition.

While Rinne has improved in his stickhandling/passing abilities, he is not as comfortable with it as Ellis is and therefore covers the puck or clears it altogether to relieve pressure on the D and allow the team to regroup.

If we are sticking with Pekka as our goalie for the next few years, then we must find a goalie with skills that compliment his and allow the team playing in front of them to avoid having to adjust their style of play on a night-to-night basis depending on which goalie is playing.

Additionally, Ellis is due a $2 million salary next season and with the team's need to stretch every dollar as far as possible, I simply do not believe that Ellis is worth $2 million next season to the Nashville Predators organization and that that money can be divided amongst finding a replacement to mentor/backup Rinne and help out in whatever other need Poile attempts to address this summer.

With that being said, it is "bad" for our market to be known as a goalie factory that serves as a revolving door, but I hope and believe that will stop with Rinne who is the first goalie drafted and developed by the Predators. I anticipate we will attempt very hard to sign him to a 3-year deal either this summer or next season before he hits the UFA market. I believe 3 years is the most the Predators will go with due to the depth in the organization and Pekka's age and it sets up Pekka to cash in big when the deal is up and he is still in his prime.

golfmade 03-20-2009 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utmfisher19 (Post 18589115)
We are getting bombarded with messages from Dan and his wife on these boards!!!

Not polite or cool on your part. Steelhead16 is a decent poster and like myself saw Ellis when he played in the ECHL for the Idaho Steelheads and carried the team on his back and won the Kelly Cup several years ago. Apples and oranges in a way yes but no reason to make more personal attacks with someone just because your view of Ellis differs.

golfmade 03-20-2009 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLake (Post 18631644)
The vast difference in style between Rinne and Ellis has lead me to come to the conclusion that it is in the best interests of both the franchise and Ellis moving forward this summer that they trade him to somewhere he can compete for a starting job and sign a veteran backup to a one-year deal to backup Pekka for the upcoming year.

It was clear during the stretch of games Rinne missed with the flu that the team is used to and actually better suited with a goalie that manages the flow of the game. Ellis prefers (largely due to style) to keep the game moving and commonly directs rebounds to his defense, shovels the puck out to initiate a breakout, or stickhandles/passes the puck himself to try to start a breakout. This is fine in a system like Dallas where both goalies can handle the puck equally as well and the team is used to and designed to utilize their goalie to initiate quick transition.

While Rinne has improved in his stickhandling/passing abilities, he is not as comfortable with it as Ellis is and therefore covers the puck or clears it altogether to relieve pressure on the D and allow the team to regroup.

Hit the nail on the head.

Paranoid Android 03-20-2009 11:43 PM

I still disagree about trading Ellis. I vote we keep him around. He already knows the system in case Rinne falters. 2 million still isn't bad for a very capable back up.

About the stickhandling... wouldn't you want to keep Ellis around so he can teach Rinne a thing or two?

skipper49 03-21-2009 09:52 AM

Well said Slake man. You are the sanest one on these boards. Another reason the Preds didn't let Ellis go at the trade deadline may be because Rinne is not a proven playoff goalie. Ellis has proven that twice over now. It didn't matter how many games Ellis won this season, the Preds were in a rush to prove that they can draft a goalie and they are willing to bet the playoffs on this kid(If they get there). I hope it works for Rinne's sake. Just a thought - how much loving do you think Rinne will get when Chet Pickard shows up in camp? Will Poile want to prove to the hockey world that he can now a draft first round tender? This all kind of takes your mind off the fact that the Preds never did trade/sign that top six forward...That's hockey politics for you boys and girls.

BigFatCat999 03-21-2009 10:22 AM

I'm firmly in the camp of trading Ellis next year. The difference between the moves for Vokoun, Mason, and Ellis is the fact that Rinne is young and a prospect. He's showing a lot more than Mason and Ellis and will compare well with Vokoun.


Biggest problem is Pickard and Smith coming up behind him. I expect one of the two to be traded for a forward prospect.

utmfisher19 03-21-2009 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipper49 (Post 18630950)
You continue to show your lack of knowledge and class utm by mentioning Ellis and his wife no less. Is that the only way you think you can get your point across??
Did you even watch the Anaheim and LA games or did you just go ooooh over the 3 points? The team bailed him out in LA by scoring 4 goals. Three goals scored were on his rebounds. Two were weak. Two goals for Anaheim were also off his rebounds. If you are going to cheer for somebody then at least use some facts rather than just emotion and insults.

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfmade (Post 18636540)
Not polite or cool on your part. Steelhead16 is a decent poster and like myself saw Ellis when he played in the ECHL for the Idaho Steelheads and carried the team on his back and won the Kelly Cup several years ago. Apples and oranges in a way yes but no reason to make more personal attacks with someone just because your view of Ellis differs.

um first off, it was a joke. Cant take a joke, get off the boards.

Secondly, the guy keeps making posts about Ellis vs. Rinne that are completely unreasonable that 1.) make him look like an Ellis homer, 2.) show that he has little knowledge about the entire subject.


So, it wasnt a personal attack, and great for Ellis that he carried a (AA) ECHL team. Why dont we ask Haydar how great he was in the AHL/ECHL and how it has translated over to the NHL.


Again, I have nothing against Ellis. I really like him at goalie. But he is NO WHERE CLOSE to being as good as Rinne. Period.

Paranoid Android 03-21-2009 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipper49 (Post 18639655)
Well said Slake man. You are the sanest one on these boards. Another reason the Preds didn't let Ellis go at the trade deadline may be because Rinne is not a proven playoff goalie. Ellis has proven that twice over now. It didn't matter how many games Ellis won this season, the Preds were in a rush to prove that they can draft a goalie and they are willing to bet the playoffs on this kid(If they get there). I hope it works for Rinne's sake. Just a thought - how much loving do you think Rinne will get when Chet Pickard shows up in camp? Will Poile want to prove to the hockey world that he can now a draft first round tender? This all kind of takes your mind off the fact that the Preds never did trade/sign that top six forward...That's hockey politics for you boys and girls.

Poile/Trotz are not going to play someone just to "prove that we can draft." That is a ridiculous assumption. They are more professional than that and don't need to "prove" anything to anybody. They will play whoever is the better hockey player.

skipper49 03-21-2009 07:21 PM

Don't be so naive. You would be amazed at what coaches/GMs do to save their own butts. Oh and utm..."I was just kidding" is just plain lame buddy.


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