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-   -   So Where's Kolzig goin? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=62016)

Gumby 03-14-2004 05:14 PM

So Where's Kolzig goin?
 
I really don't think Olie will stay with the team past draft day. I mean seriously, they're finally goin with youth in the lineup and they're gonna keep a $6.5 mill goalie thats blocking the one position that they're absolutely stacked at with prospects? I think McPhee will buckle and probably take a mill or so of his remaining 2 years and get it done. The question is where does he wind up (playoff success/failure prob has a lot to do with it) and for what kinda return?

SwOOsh* 03-14-2004 08:30 PM

If Belfour's back acts up and this is his last season, I would think that he would end up a Leaf.

st_roland 03-15-2004 12:44 AM

Man, unless we can get something substantial back for him, i'd like to keep him around. He really can steal games and I can't think of a better goalie to mentor Ouellet. Hes got such an awesome personality.

p.l.f. 03-15-2004 08:56 AM

kolzig a leaf eh
can witt come along too ?

Drake1588 03-15-2004 09:32 AM

I am sure that McPhee will listen to any and all offers, but he will be no more willing to simply give Kolzig away in June than he was in March. The Caps are not looking to pick up any salary in a Kolzig trade, nor are they seeking money in return. They want player value in a hockey trade. The Caps are prepared to pay Kolzig his salary next season and the season after that, given the ample payroll room they now have at their disposal. For a good deal, they would move him, but they do not have to do so and will not take a minimal offer just to move the salary.

Young roster players, prospects, high draft picks, or some combination thereof will still be the price. Nothing will have changed from the Capitals' perspective by June. The question is whether or not another team has a new need for goaltending, whether due to a contender's goalie collapsing in the post-season, or a starter's retirement.

Gumby 03-16-2004 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake1588
I am sure that McPhee will listen to any and all offers, but he will be no more willing to simply give Kolzig away in June than he was in March. The Caps are not looking to pick up any salary in a Kolzig trade, nor are they seeking money in return. They want player value in a hockey trade. The Caps are prepared to pay Kolzig his salary next season and the season after that, given the ample payroll room they now have at their disposal. For a good deal, they would move him, but they do not have to do so and will not take a minimal offer just to move the salary.

Young roster players, prospects, high draft picks, or some combination thereof will still be the price. Nothing will have changed from the Capitals' perspective by June. The question is whether or not another team has a new need for goaltending, whether due to a contender's goalie collapsing in the post-season, or a starter's retirement.


By no means do I think he'd be given away. He was reportedly damn close to being dealt at the deadline and if a guy like Belfour falters/retires, the Philly experiment blows up in their face, and the results of a couple other situations will only increase his value, thus even more likely to be dealt...and for decent value. I really see at least half of next season gettin cancelled (man, that's gonna suck), thus makin Olie's contract even less of a factor....I guess you could look at it that it would then be even easier for the Caps to keep him another year and bring Ouellet along slowly....ah, who knows. Beleive me, I love Olie and think he's one of the best leaders in the game, but I think there's gonna be a pretty good market for him after the season and they can't keep developing Ouellet forever...at some point he'll regress.

bleedgreen 03-16-2004 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-mad
By no means do I think he'd be given away. He was reportedly damn close to being dealt at the deadline and if a guy like Belfour falters/retires, the Philly experiment blows up in their face, and the results of a couple other situations will only increase his value, thus even more likely to be dealt...and for decent value. I really see at least half of next season gettin cancelled (man, that's gonna suck), thus makin Olie's contract even less of a factor....I guess you could look at it that it would then be even easier for the Caps to keep him another year and bring Ouellet along slowly....ah, who knows. Beleive me, I love Olie and think he's one of the best leaders in the game, but I think there's gonna be a pretty good market for him after the season and they can't keep developing Ouellet forever...at some point he'll regress.

he doesnt have just on eseason left on his contract - he has two. he has played pretty well this season, but not 12 or even 9 million dollars worth. i understand as a player he is worth return, but not with that contract. the only reason he wasnt traded, imo is that they wouldnt eat salary. he will stay in washington as long as they continue to have that attitude. what contenders need a goalie, and on which team would he be an improvement? wonky back or not, belfour is better than ollie. no contender needs him and no rebuilding team would build around him - most importantly no team at all would pay him 12 mill over the next 2 seasons. this deadline saw teams act as desperatley as they ever have, and no one bit -how can the level of desperation be going up at the draft with the lockout ahead? someone is going to acquire him to pay him that much and they dont even know when the next season is? i sincerely doubt it. the only way they move him is to eat at least a mill a year off the contract. i dont believe for a second mcfee kept him around for any reason other than no one would take him.

Drake1588 03-16-2004 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedgreen
i dont believe for a second mcfee kept him around for any reason other than no one would take him.

There were allegedly four teams willing to take him, but the offers were not particularly attractive. Teams assumed that the Caps were only interested in dumping salary, and this was not the case. The Capitals are prepared to keep Kolzig unless the return is worth losing what he provides in net. I happen to think that he will be dealt myself, given the wealth of goaltending talent in the system, but it will be for a decent collection of promising youth, not a salary dump arrangement.

bleedgreen 03-16-2004 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake1588
There were allegedly four teams willing to take him, but the offers were not particularly attractive. Teams assumed that the Caps were only interested in dumping salary, and this was not the case. The Capitals are prepared to keep Kolzig unless the return is worth losing what he provides in net. I happen to think that he will be dealt myself, given the wealth of goaltending talent in the system, but it will be for a decent collection of promising youth, not a salary dump arrangement.

i believe you when it comes to what you want, but i still dont understand who wants him for that price. of course teams thought he was being moved in a salary dump - its the only way they can move him. if somebody takes on that salary - its a miracle and youre probably not getting anything of value back. if you think that the caps are going to get a "decent collection of promising youth"- they will have to eat that salary. do you think he will bring back a brian leetch (debateable the rangers got enough) kind of package at that price?no way. he wouldnt gring back that much if they DID eat his salary. i think most of the rumours of kolzigs imminent departure originated FROM washington. no way the avs or ottawa were going to take on that salary - and i dont think either team needed him. TO/philly maybe wanted him as insurance - but not at that price. in the off season no team will be dealing from desperation - no way he moves for more than a pick or low prospect without the contract being partially eaten.

txpd 03-17-2004 08:55 AM

I don't think so.
 
I don't see Kolzig being traded after all the public comments from Leonsis and McPhee on the subject. "We are building from the goaltender out....". "We are commited to Olie for the long term."

Once Jagr was traded, those two were pretty upfront about more trades being in the offing.

but after the deadline they said they were keeping witt and they were going to build the new team around kolzig.

txpd 03-17-2004 09:08 AM

bleedgreen posted....no way the avs or ottawa were going to take on that salary - and i dont think either team needed him. TO/philly maybe wanted him as insurance - but not at that price.....

ottawa is going to win the cup with patrick lalime and lalime has been way of his levels lately. aebischer is a playoff rookie...an uncomfortable position. the same position that the flyers are in. and TO...they get brian leetch. they have that veteran expensive team and if they end up with trevor kidd in net they will go down in the first round.

ottawa guaranteed they would win the cup, the flyers havent won the cup in 30 years, the leafs havent won the cup since there were only 5 other teams to beat, and the avalanche have one shot with the team they have before a lot of it leaves.

in my view kolzig is a better playoff goalie than aebischer, esche, burke, and lalime.
only a healthy belfour is a better bet. if your opinion is that he is not, then there is no conversation. but if you agree and ottawa or the flyers lose because they went on the cheap...i think not paying kolzig's salary was a mistake.

bleedgreen 03-17-2004 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txpd
in my view kolzig is a better playoff goalie than aebischer, esche, burke, and lalime.
only a healthy belfour is a better bet. if your opinion is that he is not, then there is no conversation. but if you agree and ottawa or the flyers lose because they went on the cheap...i think not paying kolzig's salary was a mistake.

i said in my previous post belfour is an easy choice over kolzig. i disagree about philly because they already made their move for a goalie - and paid a pretty high price for a goalie - why wouldthey pay more for ANOTHER? not to mention eshe has played well enough to get a shot at it. they have two goalies who are capable, its a good plan and i think they overspent as it is on their moves this season, a trade for kolzig would have been that much more ridiculous. despite ottawa's willingness to add some salary to win the cup - 12 million over 2 years when they already have lalime AND prusek is a little excessive, isnt it? none of them belong on the bench - thats something only the rangers in the playoffs would do, not the the sens. again, 2 qualitity goalies (despite lalime's troubles, he is still the guy) who can start makes it tough to add another, at that price, who is a potential backup.
which brings us to the avs, who have said all year that abby was their guy. all year everyone here said he was full of it and would get a starter...call him a liar now. whether you agree with pl's assessment or not, abby is the starter for the avs. i respect him for it cause i agree. having decided that the job was abbys - why would you pay 12 million for a bench sitter and a guy who would be over abbys shoulder every time he messed up? there were other multiple options that were cheaper in price.
the avs arguement applies to all 3 teams really. i wouldnt start kolzig over abby, lalime, or eeven eshe/burke i just dont think he is that good anymore, i know he isnt worth the money, idefinitely dont think it would be a good idea to give any assets up to get a guy who would only confuse the picture with a month left in an important season -and costs that much money. i think caps fans overate his value in the nhl right now. if youre going to wait for actual prospects in return + the salary off the books...he's staying. he obviously has more value to the caps than to anyone else - why not keep him anyway?
in the end maybe kolzig wouldve helped someone - but no team in the league wants that contract - even if their goaltending fails into the playoffs. there will be some kind of cap/luxury tax in the end. who wants a goalie in his late 30's taking up 12 mill over 2 years when they have younger goalies that these teams think can do the job? kolzig getting traded for anything of consequense never made sense.

Gumby 03-17-2004 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedgreen
he doesnt have just on eseason left on his contract - he has two. he has played pretty well this season, but not 12 or even 9 million dollars worth. i understand as a player he is worth return, but not with that contract. the only reason he wasnt traded, imo is that they wouldnt eat salary. he will stay in washington as long as they continue to have that attitude. what contenders need a goalie, and on which team would he be an improvement? wonky back or not, belfour is better than ollie. no contender needs him and no rebuilding team would build around him - most importantly no team at all would pay him 12 mill over the next 2 seasons. this deadline saw teams act as desperatley as they ever have, and no one bit -how can the level of desperation be going up at the draft with the lockout ahead? someone is going to acquire him to pay him that much and they dont even know when the next season is? i sincerely doubt it. the only way they move him is to eat at least a mill a year off the contract. i dont believe for a second mcfee kept him around for any reason other than no one would take him.


That's exactly what I said in the initial post....I think McPhee will buckle and wind up eating a mill or so for the last 2 years and deal him. I'm sure there'll be a couple teams that have disasters in the playoffs and think they need a goalie and Olie will look like a good fit, and it just doesn't make a ton of sense to me to keep a guy on the Caps minor league roster they'll be puttin out the next year or two that makes that much $ and block the only position that they're stacked at. Though as some have said, with all the salaries that have been purged they don't need to deal him and will need to get something decent in return....which I think they'll be able to get. Now as for Belfor being better than Olie......we'll just have to disagree on that one.

Actually, it won't surprise me at all to see Olie go to management after the season and ask to be dealt....he's already said he doesn't want to spend his final years on a rebuilding team (and I think the Caps pretty much define that right now) and McPhee's been pretty good about obliging guys who want out.

Chimaera 03-18-2004 12:05 AM

A lot depends on the playoffs (who tanks) and the Labor Agreement.


If there's minimum amounts of games lost, and some type of agreement, he'll probably be dealt. If not, it could get tricky. He's not getting any younger, and has 2 years left that are pretty hefty for most everyone to swallow.

Though, if he makes a stink about remaining on the Caps, he might get sent out. McPhee's got no problem pitching the people who try to poison the locker room over the side of the boat.

txpd 03-19-2004 04:07 PM

yes, the flyers chose burke over kolzig. i thought that was dumb. however, as i suspected, you say that caps fans overrate kolzig. maybe so. most of the media and most of the former nhl types that i see on tv rated kolzig as by far the best "available" goalie this season.

its hard to really rate kolzig as a layman. he is played on average to above average teams, but never an elite level team. his playoff stats are about the best among all nhl goalies in the playoffs. he has the best save % and about the best gaa, but his win/loss record isn't good. who do you blame the lost series on? the goalie or the lack of scoring? while he has won playoff series in only one year, he took an average team to the finals that year. he has the finals trip in one season and a vezina two years later. so he is not a flash in the pan.

i don't think kolzig is overrated at all. but its certainly something you can argue about.


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