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-   -   Off Season trade Proposal: Ana/Car (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=63999)

Randall Graves* 03-21-2004 11:13 PM

Off Season trade Proposal: Ana/Car
 
Ok the trade deadline has come and gone and now as teams start looking toward the future I have a proposal involving two under achieving players this season, I don't feel there skill is far apart but I think style of play may factor into a potential deal, picks may be going one way or another.

To Anaheim:
Jeff O'neill

To Carolina:
Petr Sykora

both are relatively young,both make about the same amount of money. I think it would benefit both teams if both guys get healthy, Anaheim needs a legit power forward and Jeff O'neill fits the bill if he gets healthy. Sykora has 40 goal potential but has had a rough year with a wrist injury since December so he hasn't been as effective as he normally is. I think Anaheim could add a mid round pick or a guy like Martensson or someone like that.

Flame away.

Vagrant 03-21-2004 11:17 PM

Well, i'd like to say that I like this deal but something about it really doesn't click for me. Sykora reminds me quite a bit of Vrbata for some reason.

If Carolina trades O'Neill, it's to get younger if you ask me.

kenny #9 03-21-2004 11:17 PM

I like this deal, from both sides, but i dont think either team would be willing to take the risk that the deal will backfire.. with either Sykora or O'Neill lighting it up

bleedgreen 03-21-2004 11:38 PM

i agree with caniac forever - if oneill goes, i think its for a younger player 18-25. im starting to think he may go this summer though, cole and williams have looked great as the top 2 rw's on the canes since oneill went down.

Randall Graves* 03-21-2004 11:45 PM

I know Carolina is looking to get younger but Sykora is probably of the same caliber and with the uncertainty of a work stoppage one has to wonder if any teams will take on salary.

bleedgreen 03-22-2004 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RallyKiller
I know Carolina is looking to get younger but Sykora is probably of the same caliber and with the uncertainty of a work stoppage one has to wonder if any teams will take on salary.

exactly - carolina wont take on sykora's. the only reason carolina is moving oneill is to SAVE salary and get younger. trading oneill for sykora doesnt do that. its a lateral move kind of trade (financially AND talent wise)- which may work for the ducks, who can make another run next year. the canes are rebuilding, a lateral move trade for oneill doesnt fit in the plans. im not saying it isnt approximate value - its just that it only fits into the ducks plans. it would make the canes more skilled and less gritty (debateable if thats improvement)- anyways unless sykora plays left wing (maybe he does) it clogs the right side. the canes need too much help at other positions other than rw. i could see oneill for a lw or a d - and i just think they want younger/cheaper, or they would just keep him. its not like they dont like him.
fwiw, i think the ducks are a good fit for oneill - it wouldnt suprise me if he went there.

andora 03-22-2004 04:32 AM

a deal around chistov ?

McDonald19 03-22-2004 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
a deal around chistov ?

I'm not ready to give up on Chistov yet...unless in return we get a top pairing Defensemen who is 22-26 yrs old... :)

HughJass* 03-22-2004 11:41 AM

Chistov? We don't need any more runts in Carolina.

There is something about Sykora that screams "inconsistent". I dunno, I should stay out of the O'Neill debates. He has an excellent shot, good on the draw, and is not a defensive liability. I'm not in love with the guy be he is an effective hockey player...especially when he's not playing injured. :rolly:

caliamad 03-22-2004 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHurricane16
Chistov? We don't need any more runts in Carolina.

There is something about Sykora that screams "inconsistent". I dunno, I should stay out of the O'Neill debates. He has an excellent shot, good on the draw, and is not a defensive liability. I'm not in love with the guy be he is an effective hockey player...especially when he's not playing injured. :rolly:

I won't presume to know much about ONeil's work ethic or physical play, but when Sykora is "on" he's great (not unbelieveable or anything, just great) in a skill type game...

IMO, he is pushover in most areas of the ice, but the man can shoot... unfortunately, he was snake bitten the beginning of they year, and hasn't been getting opportunities in the 2nd half...

I wouldn't do this deal if I was Carolina... it sounds like O'Neil needs to be move, but I don't think the ducks are going to give up Chistov...

maybe a lesser prospect, like Smirnov or Bent... maybe even Perry, but not a top guy like Chistov, Getzalf, Lupul, Bryzgalov or Popovic...

bleedgreen 03-22-2004 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caliamad
I wouldn't do this deal if I was Carolina... it sounds like O'Neil needs to be move, but I don't think the ducks are going to give up Chistov...

maybe a lesser prospect, like Smirnov or Bent... maybe even Perry, but not a top guy like Chistov, Getzalf, Lupul, Bryzgalov or Popovic...

i agree with your overall assessment, but to get a top 6 forward you will have to give someone up. to name FIVE players your team will not move to get a guy who would clearly help now and in the future seems a bit off. im not saying that your list is off base - its just you cant say that many guys are off-limits. especially when its the ducks who are only a couple players and a good season away from being back where they were. the canes arent giving oneill away - i think anything is possible when youre talking about trading prospects, cuz thats what they are....prospects not players. i would think carolina would be after perry or popovic, but who knows what they really want.

Gibsons Finest 03-22-2004 05:21 PM

I wouldn't do O'Neil for Pete. Not that I don't like it, but I'm against trading him. I'd rather get O'Neil in a deal centered around Perry or Brent. I'd like to see Sykora stay with Fedorov and maybe Lupul for a top line next year. Maybe O'Neil with Prospal and whoever else they throw in there for a second line.

DaveG 03-22-2004 08:12 PM

any deal that Carolina would make with Anaheim involving O'Neill would most likely be centered around Popovic, Perry, or Chistov.

Sykora for O'Neill is a 100% latteral move and I think it is a bit of a downgrade on the defensive/physical side. Sorry, wouldn't deal O'Neill unless at least one of the five prospects listed as off-limits were to be involved.

Randall Graves* 03-22-2004 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedgreen
exactly - carolina wont take on sykora's. the only reason carolina is moving oneill is to SAVE salary and get younger. trading oneill for sykora doesnt do that. its a lateral move kind of trade (financially AND talent wise)- which may work for the ducks, who can make another run next year. the canes are rebuilding, a lateral move trade for oneill doesnt fit in the plans. im not saying it isnt approximate value - its just that it only fits into the ducks plans. it would make the canes more skilled and less gritty (debateable if thats improvement)- anyways unless sykora plays left wing (maybe he does) it clogs the right side. the canes need too much help at other positions other than rw. i could see oneill for a lw or a d - and i just think they want younger/cheaper, or they would just keep him. its not like they dont like him.
fwiw, i think the ducks are a good fit for oneill - it wouldnt suprise me if he went there.

I agree with that, I think it would give Carolina more of a sniper who is more of a skill player. Anaheim desperately needs a powerforward because Niedermayer and Leclerc are always hurt.

I think Chistov could be involved in a deal to answer WVUCanes,Bryan Murray wants guys who play physical Calgary Flames type of hockey. While Chistov is very talented I am not so sure he fits into the direction the team wants to go in. To me the only untouchables throughout the entire organization are Fedorov,Carney,Giguere,Lupul,Vishnevski,Getzlaf,Po povic and probably Pahlsson. Anyone else is fair game. I just think a change for these players would benefit them more and I really feel O'neill will some way or another will be dealt in the offseason and I think Bryan Murray will be first in line.

Randall Graves* 03-22-2004 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedgreen
i agree with your overall assessment, but to get a top 6 forward you will have to give someone up. to name FIVE players your team will not move to get a guy who would clearly help now and in the future seems a bit off. im not saying that your list is off base - its just you cant say that many guys are off-limits. especially when its the ducks who are only a couple players and a good season away from being back where they were. the canes arent giving oneill away - i think anything is possible when youre talking about trading prospects, cuz thats what they are....prospects not players. i would think carolina would be after perry or popovic, but who knows what they really want.

Bryzgalov,Perry,3rd for O'neill

However this is based on weather or not Carolina needs a young skilled goalie who is ready to play in the NHL now. I dunno if Carolina would want Gerber since he is 30 although if I was a team looking for a goalie he'd be on my short list because of how quick he is side to side and his solid positioning.

DaveG 03-23-2004 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Bryzgalov,Perry,3rd for O'neill

However this is based on weather or not Carolina needs a young skilled goalie who is ready to play in the NHL now.

Depends on if Irbe is going to hang up the skates. With Calgary and Carolina spliting Lowell that would become a huge goaltending logjam for one AHL team. That's probably one of the best proposals i've seen for O'Neill though.

bleedgreen 03-23-2004 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Bryzgalov,Perry,3rd for O'neill

However this is based on weather or not Carolina needs a young skilled goalie who is ready to play in the NHL now. I dunno if Carolina would want Gerber since he is 30 although if I was a team looking for a goalie he'd be on my short list because of how quick he is side to side and his solid positioning.

cant argue with that offer. we do have cam ward as our top prospect - but bryz is more developed than ward. id do that trade, good offer. i really like the idea of popovic though, mainly cause the canes are really short young d - i wouldnt mind him substituted for one of the above, with the canes throwing more in....dont see the ducks doing it though. as much as i like your offer - i think rutherford is happy with weekes/ward (though i dont know about that age gap - 20/28), i dont see him wanting a goalie. aside maybe from offers including hale or martin (unlikely), or higgins (still might happen) mentioned earlier this season - this is the best one ive seen.

HughJass* 03-23-2004 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedgreen
cant argue with that offer. we do have cam ward as our top prospect - but bryz is more developed than ward. id do that trade, good offer.

You're nuts, my friend :) Bryz-whatever is nothing more than an AHL goalie. We are stacked in goalie prospects, so bringing another goalie in isn't a good idea. Goalies like Deroschers & Zepp can rot in the minors until they tap their potential, no need to bring in someone else's cast off to clutter the situation.

A deal involving Tim Brent & Sykora I'd probably jump on. I didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't respect Sykora - the guy killed us when he was in Jersey. I don't see what else he provides than his accurate shot :/

I'm not a big O fan, I'm just speaking from common sense.

bleedgreen 03-23-2004 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHurricane16
You're nuts, my friend :) Bryz-whatever is nothing more than an AHL goalie. We are stacked in goalie prospects, so bringing another goalie in isn't a good idea. Goalies like Deroschers & Zepp can rot in the minors until they tap their potential, no need to bring in someone else's cast off to clutter the situation.

i agree we have a ton of goalies - but im not sure any of them are good enough to be starters aside from ward (we hope) - we need a solid backup to weekes, bryzgalov could do that i think. ward is goingto need a couple years in the minors, and we might have made the playoffs with a better back-up.

punchy1 03-23-2004 11:21 AM

WOW. I can't wait for a ducks fan to see this latest bit of tart here.

Bryzgylov came up for a few games this year and played well enough to where the Ducks are going to move JS (likely) or Gerber this offseason. Them two are certainly both legitimate top notch goalies in the league and for them to want to move either of them lads to make room for this "ahl goalie" says volumes about his skill.

I can't see the ducks parting with him at all.

Oniel has 14 goals and 20 assists this year and is going to have majour reconstructive shoulder surgery and while he is likely to return all fine next year, there will be no way of knowing that he will return to form or not until he plays again.

You would be asking the ducks to give up one of the top young NHL ready goalie prospects in the game (plus the rest which I reckon is fine) for a player who they will A) have to wonder if he will be as great as he were before his surgery and B) at his age, will be looking for a new contract, an expensive one IF he does return to form, in very short shrift.

An amazingly one sided proposal to me.

I don't mean any offence by the way at all and am sorry if it comes off that way but, I absolutely reckon that this is too much one sided in the Canes favour to be taken seriously.

Visnevsky and Perry or another equal talent for Oniel is getting closer to even.

Wait with Oniel until he gets back healthy and establishes his game again and then, if you want to move him, do so at the next trade deadline and you will get bank in young talent for him.

He is an elite talent but there are simply too many clouds out there right now to get top value for him in my thinking but, I don't truly know all of the players involved as well as Ducksfans and Canes fans would so take it with a grain of salt.

bleedgreen 03-23-2004 11:37 AM

hey, a ducks fan offered it - i was only responding. i dont think any of this drivel we go on about would ever happen - its just fun to talk about when your bored and your team sucks (until the last 2 weeks of the season when it doesnt matter anymore). ithink bryzgalov is a solid prospect. fwiw, i like your offer too, better than all the trade deadline junk.

Kevin Forbes 03-23-2004 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punchy1
Bryzgylov came up for a few games this year and played well enough to where the Ducks are going to move JS (likely) or Gerber this offseason. Them two are certainly both legitimate top notch goalies in the league and for them to want to move either of them lads to make room for this "ahl goalie" says volumes about his skill.

Visnevsky and Perry or another equal talent for Oniel is getting closer to even.

The way I see the goaltending playing out in Anaheim is probably no deal until october or so. Giguere is staying, he's young, he has a big contract, he's the now and the future of the Ducks in net.
Gerber is a possibility to be moved, because he is good, he's a bit older and a bit cheaper. He has value on the market and with Bryzgalov around, he could be expendable. He's the oldest netminder in the Ducks organization and thus he is the one who will be moved.
Bryzgalov has served his time in Cincy, still a little inconsistent and still needs work on some parts of his game. He needs to play to develop. He has #1 potential, but the team isn't sure what to do with him. He's good (hardly a cast-off), but so is Giguere, and so is Gerber. Depending on how Cincy fairs in the AHL playoffs, he could see more time in the NHL, before the end of the season, but it's unlikely.
I figure that the Ducks will pick up a goaltender at the draft (mid round) and possibly look at getting a goaltender via free agency (for the minor leagues).
If Giguere starts slow as normal, expect Gerber to stick around to carry the team (this will also raise his value). Then when Giguere gets going, Gerber will be moved. Bryzgalov usually starts hot and then cools around christmas and early of the next year before getting hot again to finish the season. The late fall is also when everyone's goalie situation is a little cleared then it was at the start of the season and thus needs and desperation are identified clearer.
Gerber will not finish another season in Anaheim. Also he's an RFA at the end of this season, so it will be interesting to see how those negoiations play out. I can't see an Anaheim goalie deal going down until after the season starts. If Giguere is hot, Gerber could go quite quickly.


Vishnevski AND Perry for O'Neil? Vishnevski is the least likely to be moved on the blueline. Perry however is probably the most available of the Ducks prospects. I can't see Carolina getting much value for O'Neil until he can prove he can rebound from the surgery and return to form.
Perry and Leclerc? Leclerc is a lesser-man power forward who has injury trouble.

Randall Graves* 03-23-2004 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punchy1
WOW. I can't wait for a ducks fan to see this latest bit of tart here.

Bryzgylov came up for a few games this year and played well enough to where the Ducks are going to move JS (likely) or Gerber this offseason. Them two are certainly both legitimate top notch goalies in the league and for them to want to move either of them lads to make room for this "ahl goalie" says volumes about his skill.

It's doubtful Giguere will be traded, I like Bryzgalov but Giguere is only 26 so I really think this is a good time to trade Bryz or Gerber. It just depends what direction each team wants to go in, if Carolina thinks it can contend with Gerber then maybe they'd want him. If they are happy with Weekes then Bryzgalov gives them a legitimate goaltending prospect who IS ready to step in now. Bryzgalov does not get enough credit for being fast side to side.

Quote:

I can't see the ducks parting with him at all.

Oniel has 14 goals and 20 assists this year and is going to have majour reconstructive shoulder surgery and while he is likely to return all fine next year, there will be no way of knowing that he will return to form or not until he plays again.
The shoulder is the reason I think his numbers have gone down even if he doesn't return to his old form he gives us a guy to park in front of the net and do some dirty work which in turn makes Fedorov a much better player because he won't have to worry about working as aggressively along the boards like he does when he's playing with Sykora or Prospal.

Quote:

You would be asking the ducks to give up one of the top young NHL ready goalie prospects in the game (plus the rest which I reckon is fine) for a player who they will A) have to wonder if he will be as great as he were before his surgery and B) at his age, will be looking for a new contract, an expensive one IF he does return to form, in very short shrift.
I understand what your saying but the Ducks can afford to deal from a position of strength such as goaltending I do not believe Bryan Murray would offer that much with the season O'neill has had but I think it's possible.

Quote:

Visnevsky and Perry or another equal talent for Oniel is getting closer to even.

Wait with Oniel until he gets back healthy and establishes his game again and then, if you want to move him, do so at the next trade deadline and you will get bank in young talent for him.
Even if O'neill was healthy I would not trade Vishnevski to get him he's big,physical,can move the puck and unlike some of our dmen doesn't turn the puck over often. He's also pretty quick for a player his size, I think he will be a solid all around defensemen in the future maybe a 4 maybe a 2 maybe even a 1 some day.

Quote:

He is an elite talent but there are simply too many clouds out there right now to get top value for him in my thinking but, I don't truly know all of the players involved as well as Ducksfans and Canes fans would so take it with a grain of salt.
I agree with your thinking in terms of O'neills production this season but there is no doubt he is the type of player the Ducks need.

Kick Save 03-23-2004 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHurricane16
You're nuts, my friend :) Bryz-whatever is nothing more than an AHL goalie. We are stacked in goalie prospects, so bringing another goalie in isn't a good idea. Goalies like Deroschers & Zepp can rot in the minors until they tap their potential, no need to bring in someone else's cast off to clutter the situation.

A deal involving Tim Brent & Sykora I'd probably jump on. I didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't respect Sykora - the guy killed us when he was in Jersey. I don't see what else he provides than his accurate shot :/

I'm not a big O fan, I'm just speaking from common sense.

No offense, WHurricane16, but you're clueless about prospects if you think that "Bryz-whatever is nothing more than an AHL goalie."

I'd be willing to trade Perry plus a pick or Perry and Popovic for O'Neill plus.

I agree with most Canes fans that the Ducks need someone like O'Neill than the Canes need Sykora. You guys aren't interested in moving EriK Cole, are you? :rolly:

McDonald19 03-24-2004 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Bryzgalov,Perry,3rd for O'neill

However this is based on weather or not Carolina needs a young skilled goalie who is ready to play in the NHL now. I dunno if Carolina would want Gerber since he is 30 although if I was a team looking for a goalie he'd be on my short list because of how quick he is side to side and his solid positioning.

god no I wouldn't give that much up for O'neill...Perry and a 3rd maybe...but even that I wouldn't like...


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