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-   -   Value of: Sens 1st and Fisher to move up (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=640922)

wubwubwubwub 05-09-2009 09:26 AM

Sens 1st and Fisher to move up
 
Assuming Murray tries to move up, which he would definitely consider if he really wants a player, and he offered our 1st and Fisher, who would be willing to part with their pick? Obviously depending on where the pick is, the Sens would want a little more back (not going to give up Fisher to move up 1 spot...). Also, if your team wants to move up, Murray would definitely be open to moving down, assuming he believes he will get someone he's happy with.
So, what do you think your team would be willing to give for this package? Fire away.

Anksun 05-09-2009 09:28 AM

Montreal would ;)



Seriously, how many years left on Fisher deal?

wubwubwubwub 05-09-2009 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anksun (Post 19488085)
Montreal would ;)



Seriously, how many years left on Fisher deal?

4 years left at 4.2. Trust me, he would be worth that for you guys!
It's expensive, and the ONLY reason the Sens should consider dumping it is if it equates to Havlat/Bouwmeester.

But, I digress:laugh:

For us to move down 9 spaces would take quite a bit, I can't even think of a player that would work.

TheLeastOfTheBunch 05-09-2009 09:35 AM

Not interested ..... He is 29 years of age and only produced 32 points and 13 goals in 78 games this season . He is getting paid $4 million + as well for the next ~5 years . Probably some other team could be interested but definately not Toronto . I can see Toronto trading up in the top 5 by trading Alexei Ponikarovsky however (this has nothing to do with this thread)

TheLeastOfTheBunch 05-09-2009 09:38 AM

Are you talking about moving up in the draft in the top 8 ?

wubwubwubwub 05-09-2009 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch (Post 19488129)
Not interested ..... He is 29 years of age and only produced 32 points and 13 goals in 78 games this season . He is getting paid $4 million + as well for the next ~5 years . Probably some other team could be interested but definately not Toronto . I can see Toronto trading up in the top 5 by trading Alexei Ponikarovsky however (this has nothing to do with this thread)

He had an off year, he's normally a 45-50 point scorer, including 2 years with 44 points and 48 points in only 68 games. But honestly, his real value has been shown in his play for Team Canada this year. He wasn't worth it this past year, I agree. But I have no doubts at all that he will be worth it the next 4 (not 5) years.


And not necessarily moving up, open to moving down as well for the right package, obviously. But, if we moved up, top 8 would be the only real place to go.

dubey 05-09-2009 09:40 AM

1 New York Islanders
2 Tampa Bay Lightning
3 Colorado Avalanche
4 Atlanta Thrashers
5 Los Angeles Kings
6 Phoenix Coyotes
7 Toronto Maple Leafs
8 Dallas Stars

These are the teams above Ottawa. Why would any of them want Fisher and his salary? If anything Ottawa could use Fisher to move down and let someone take his contract.

TheLeastOfTheBunch 05-09-2009 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jcrew (Post 19488153)
He had an off year, he's normally a 45-50 point scorer, including 2 years with 44 points and 48 points in only 68 games. But honestly, his real value has been shown in his play for Team Canada this year. He wasn't worth it this past year, I agree. But I have no doubts at all that he will be worth it the next 4 (not 5) years.


And not necessarily moving up, open to moving down as well for the right package, obviously. But, if we moved up, top 8 would be the only real place to go.

Yeah , thing is , I don't think many teams would be interested , especially from the top 7 (since this draft is top 7 and after there is a talent dropoff) . Mike Fisher is way overpaid for the amount of points he produces . If anything , I could see you guys trying to dump his salary rather than expecting anything valuable coming your way . Therefore , it would be best if you just kept him .

trentmccleary 05-09-2009 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch (Post 19488129)
Not interested ..... He is 29 years of age and only produced 32 points and 13 goals in 78 games this season . He is getting paid $4 million + as well for the next ~5 years . Probably some other team could be interested but definately not Toronto . I can see Toronto trading up in the top 5 by trading Alexei Ponikarovsky however (this has nothing to do with this thread)

I don't think the OP's thread is realistic (atm we're stuck with Fisher)... but due to Hartsburg's mismanagement of his assets and complete incompetence on the offensive side of the game, all of Ottawa's players are being devalued on HF. Poni is all it takes to move up into the top-5 but Fisher is poison? Have you been drinking?

wubwubwubwub 05-09-2009 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trentmccleary (Post 19488234)
I don't think the OP's thread is realistic (atm we're stuck with Fisher)... but due to Hartsburg's mismanagement of his assets and complete incompetence on the offensive side of the game, all of Ottawa's players are being devalued on HF. Poni is all it takes to move up into the top-5 but Fisher is poison? Have you been drinking?

To your point, I really don't see why people consider Fisher a negative commodity. I could see Edmonton wanting him, Calgary, Pittsburgh (as a winger)... If Fisher doesn't score at a 50 point pace, and play as solidly defensively as ever next season, I will be very, very surprised.

Talentless Practise* 05-09-2009 09:52 AM

Fisher doesn't move you up one spot.

TheLeastOfTheBunch 05-09-2009 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trentmccleary (Post 19488234)
I don't think the OP's thread is realistic (atm we're stuck with Fisher)... but due to Hartsburg's mismanagement of his assets and complete incompetence on the offensive side of the game, all of Ottawa's players are being devalued on HF. Poni is all it takes to move up into the top-5 but Fisher is poison? Have you been drinking?

:facepalm:

Alexei Ponikarovsky : 23 goals, 38 assists, 61 points in 82 games.
Cap hit : $2.1 million for the next season

Mike Fisher : 13 goals , 19 assists , 32 points in 78 games .
Cap hit : $4.2 million for the next 4 years

So Ponikarovsky has double the offensive numbers , and get's paid half of Mike Fisher . Get real ......

CREW99AW 05-09-2009 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jcrew (Post 19488068)
Assuming Murray tries to move up, which he would definitely consider if he really wants a player, and he offered our 1st and Fisher, who would be willing to part with their pick? Obviously depending on where the pick is, the Sens would want a little more back (not going to give up Fisher to move up 1 spot...). Also, if your team wants to move up, Murray would definitely be open to moving down, assuming he believes he will get someone he's happy with.
So, what do you think your team would be willing to give for this package? Fire away.

I don't see the isles having any interest in Fisher's contract unless the Sens saw it as a salary dump and gave the isles something for taking it.For example:Fisher and his contract+Sens 1st for 26th overall.


If the Sens don't look at Fisher's contract as a problem,if they don't want to salary dump him,then they might get more by taking him out of the proposal.
Brooks in the Post and Botta on his blog,both seem to think the isles want to move up from 26th overall.I'm not sure Ottawa would make a good trade partner because the isles would likely be offering up picks.A team looking to restock it's prospect pool would be more interested,then a team like Ottawa,a veteran team looking to tweak it's roster.



likely trade chips: 26th pick,31st pick,37th pick,Bruins 2nd rounder.
btw,I doubt the isles package all their 2nd rounders +the 26th to move up(a Leaf fan suggestion).

If the Sens couldn't move up,if they decided to move down,what would they want fom the Isles to move down to 26th overall?

Milan the God* 05-09-2009 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch (Post 19488275)
:facepalm:

Alexei Ponikarovsky : 23 goals, 38 assists, 61 points in 82 games.
Cap hit : $2.1 million for the next season

Mike Fisher : 13 goals , 19 assists , 32 points in 78 games .
Cap hit : $4.2 million for the next 4 years

So Ponikarovsky has double the offensive numbers , and get's paid half of Mike Fisher . Get real ......

:facepalm: Do people know the definition of two-way forwards? :help:

Feed Me A Stray Cat 05-09-2009 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trentmccleary (Post 19488234)
I don't think the OP's thread is realistic (atm we're stuck with Fisher)... but due to Hartsburg's mismanagement of his assets and complete incompetence on the offensive side of the game, all of Ottawa's players are being devalued on HF. Poni is all it takes to move up into the top-5 but Fisher is poison? Have you been drinking?

Which is why it would be smart for the Senators to hold onto Fisher.

dubey 05-09-2009 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Senator (Post 19488316)
:facepalm: Do people know the definition of two-way forwards? :help:

Poni is as good if not better defensively than Fisher. He's twice the player Fisher is and makes half the money.

TheLeastOfTheBunch 05-09-2009 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Senator (Post 19488316)
:facepalm: Do people know the definition of two-way forwards? :help:

:facepalm:

Alexei Ponikarovsky is very solid defensively .

Dick Whitman 05-09-2009 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubey (Post 19488168)
1 New York Islanders
2 Tampa Bay Lightning
3 Colorado Avalanche
4 Atlanta Thrashers
5 Los Angeles Kings
6 Phoenix Coyotes
7 Toronto Maple Leafs
8 Dallas Stars

These are the teams above Ottawa. Why would any of them want Fisher and his salary? If anything Ottawa could use Fisher to move down and let someone take his contract.

Fisher doesn't have negative value. He didn't give Ottawa a hometown discount however that is the going rate for shutdown centremen that contribute 40-50 points a year. He's a poor man's Ryan Kesler and Ottawa is very happy to keep him around.

trentmccleary 05-09-2009 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch (Post 19488275)
:facepalm:

Alexei Ponikarovsky : 23 goals, 38 assists, 61 points in 82 games.
Cap hit : $2.1 million for the next season

Mike Fisher : 13 goals , 19 assists , 32 points in 78 games .
Cap hit : $4.2 million for the next 4 years

So Ponikarovsky has double the offensive numbers , and get's paid half of Mike Fisher . Get real ......

For 1 season? WOW! :boredom: 19 goals and 41 points per 82 games in 4 seasons before that. And that's pretty reflective of Pocahonski's skills (each season extremely close to career averages). If you're giving Pocahonsky enough ice time to put up 60 points... don't be surprised if you miss the playoffs :laugh:.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 19488284)
I don't see the isles having any interest in Fisher's contract unless the Sens saw it as a salary dump and gave the isles something for taking it.For example:Fisher and his contract+Sens 1st for 26th overall.

If the Sens don't look at Fisher's contract as a problem,if they don't want to salary dump him,then they might get more by taking him out of the proposal.

I doubt very much that the Sens see it that way.

Actually, I doubt very much that the Sens put a lot of stock in any stat produced under Hartsburg.

wubwubwubwub 05-09-2009 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus (Post 19488378)
Fisher doesn't have negative value. He didn't give Ottawa a hometown discount however that is the going rate for shutdown centremen that contribute 40-50 points a year. He's a poor man's Ryan Kesler and Ottawa is very happy to keep him around.

:handclap:

As I said, if anyone has a doubt about Fisher, watch the Finals against Russia.

Dick Whitman 05-09-2009 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubey (Post 19488348)
Poni is as good if not better defensively than Fisher. He's twice the player Fisher is and makes half the money.

Put down the pipe, son. You put way too much stock into one year. Ponikarovsky is nowhere near the defensive stalwart that Mike Fisher is. If he were, he'd have been nominated for the Selke by now, much like Fisher has been in the past.

TheLeastOfTheBunch 05-09-2009 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trentmccleary (Post 19488394)
For 1 season? WOW! :boredom: 19 goals and 41 points per 82 games in 4 seasns before that. And that's pretty reflective of Pocahonski's skills (each season extremely close to career averages). If you're giving Pocahonsky enough ice time to put up 60 points... don't be surprised if you miss the playoffs :laugh:.

Ponikarovsky , if you knew how to spell his name in english , averaged just 15 minutes of ice time per game .

Now run along to the Senators board .

trentmccleary 05-09-2009 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubey (Post 19488348)
Poni is as good if not better defensively than Fisher. He's twice the player Fisher is and makes half the money.

Y-E-S, perhaps you should explain to us the responsibilities of a center compared to a winger just to make sure that we all understand... :allears:

dubey 05-09-2009 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus (Post 19488405)
Put down the pipe, son. You put way too much stock into one year. Ponikarovsky is nowhere near the defensive stalwart that Mike Fisher is. If he were, he'd have been nominated for the Selke by now, much like Fisher has been in the past.

????????????

This post doesn't even make any sense. What changed in his defensive game this season? He's still the same player, he's just getting recognized now. He has been a positive +/- player every year since his rookie year, he's a regular on the PK, and almost always plays against opposing top lines.

TheLeastOfTheBunch 05-09-2009 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus (Post 19488405)
Put down the pipe, son. You put way too much stock into one year. Ponikarovsky is nowhere near the defensive stalwart that Mike Fisher is. If he were, he'd have been nominated for the Selke by now, much like Fisher has been in the past.

Ponikarovsky is not as good defensively as Fisher , but Alexei is no slouch himself . He has 3 inches on Mike Fisher and would be a great winger on any team's 2nd line or even on the 1st line alongside a really talented #1 star centre . Mike Fisher is probably limited to the 3rd line role . And since the top 8 teams picking in the 2009 draft are more rebuild oriented , I HIGHLY DOUBT THEY WOULD WANT to trade down to pick up a 3rd line "shut-down" type centre .


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