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-   -   Proposal: Philly TB Minn (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=641524)

puckMAN 05-11-2009 01:49 PM

Philly TB Minn
 
Philly in - Harding,PMB,09 4th(Minn)

Philly out - Lupul,09 1st



TB in - Lupul,Gillies,09 1st (Philly) 10 1st (Minn)

TB out - Lecavalier



Minn in - Lecavalier

Minn out - Harding,PMB,Gillies,10 1st,09 4th

The Fear Boners 05-11-2009 01:52 PM

Ehhh. Isn't Harding a UFA or RFA or something?

I wish I kept up with Minnesota better.

LEIFey 05-11-2009 01:56 PM

the flyers don't want PMB; defeats the purpose of dealing lupul if we just get another heavy contract back.

Giroux tha Damaja 05-11-2009 02:02 PM

From a philly fans perspective:

PMB for Lupul is a pretty even trade straight up, true? I'm guessing the thought here being that Lupul is a better fit with Lecavlier than PMB? I think PMB would be a better fit with Hartnell and Carter for what it's worth.
So the trade comes down to our 09 1st for Harding and a fourth? A first is a too much to pay for a goalie that played 11 games last year on a team known for making their goalies look good (Harding is also an RFA that you probably aren't resigning). A fourth is not making up that value difference IMO. Particularly since the depth of this year's draft makes that first pick more valuable than usual.

Milan the God* 05-11-2009 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokeBearMountain (Post 19517104)
Ehhh. Isn't Harding a UFA or RFA or something?

I wish I kept up with Minnesota better.

Yeah, a RFA.

puckMAN 05-11-2009 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am The Mush (Post 19517274)
From a philly fans perspective:

PMB for Lupul is a pretty even trade straight up, true? I'm guessing the thought here being that Lupul is a better fit with Lecavlier than PMB? I think PMB would be a better fit with Hartnell and Carter for what it's worth. So the trade comes down to our 09 1st for Harding and a fourth? A first is a too much to pay for a goalie that played 11 games last year for a team known for making their goalies look good. A fourth is making up the difference IMO. Make it a 3rd and I would do the trade.

Lupul is going to TB and Vinny to Minn,so fit is not an issue.Also the Wild don't have a 3rd round pick in 09,could throw in an extra 4th.

mercury 05-11-2009 02:13 PM

I'd rather just do Lupul for Harding. We'd take on salary in that original deal, once we signed Harding. Can't do that.

madpooh 05-11-2009 02:16 PM

cant see tampa not getting a better offer for TB Lecavalier than

Lupul, Gillies, 09 1st (Philly) 10 1st (Minn)

Giroux tha Damaja 05-11-2009 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckMAN (Post 19517352)
Lupul is going to TB and Vinny to Minn,so fit is not an issue.Also the Wild don't have a 3rd round pick in 09,could throw in an extra 4th.

True, dumb of me to miss that :facepalm:. What do you think of this:

To Minny: Lupul, 09 1st
To Philly: Josh Harding, Martin Skoula, 09 3rd

Quote:

Originally Posted by madpooh (Post 19517443)
cant see tampa not getting a better offer for TB Lecavalier than

Lupul, Gillies, 09 1st (Philly) 10 1st (Minn)

I can. He has a huge contract. The cap is possibly going down. Obviously Lecavalier is a fantastic player, but ten million is a lot to spend on one guy, for a long term no less.

Zubrus Coffee Maker 05-11-2009 02:31 PM

tampa could get more for lecalvier

Haute Couturier 05-11-2009 02:36 PM

We aren't dealing our 1st for Harding

4rde 05-11-2009 04:32 PM

Looks pretty good to me (wow, is this possible in hfboards:amazed:).

Wouldnt get done, but its fair deal for everyone imo.

puzzle 05-11-2009 04:36 PM

Not fair for Philly at all.

Lupul is pretty much equal to PMB
That makes: Philly's 1st for a RFA goalie who has never been a starter...and a 4th.

GKJ 05-11-2009 04:37 PM

Way too much value on Harding here.

bassassin 05-11-2009 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am The Mush (Post 19517627)
True, dumb of me to miss that :facepalm:. What do you think of this:

To Minny: Lupul, 09 1st
To Philly: Josh Harding, Martin Skoula, 09 3rd



I can. He has a huge contract. The cap is possibly going down. Obviously Lecavalier is a fantastic player, but ten million is a lot to spend on one guy, for a long term no less.

Salary, but to some teams the cap hit of $7.78 doesnt seem bad, especially when you have players like Gomez/Drury on not much less.

Flames Fanatic 05-11-2009 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4rde (Post 19519260)
Looks pretty good to me (wow, is this possible in hfboards:amazed:).

Wouldnt get done, but its fair deal for everyone imo.

BS

Minny gets Vinny for PMB, Harding, Gilles, 2010 1st, 4th round.

Call me crazy but isn't this one of those quantity for quality trades?

DapperDan 05-11-2009 06:16 PM

I think Harding is being grossly underrated here. He has been outplayed by Backstrom but that doesn't mean he still can't be a great starter.

GKJ 05-11-2009 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DapperDan (Post 19520547)
I think Harding is being grossly underrated here. He has been outplayed by Backstrom but that doesn't mean he still can't be a great starter.

It's not about him being a good goalie, it's about his trade value. Trade value for goalies who have proven little to nothing is....little to nothing...

BillyShoe1721 05-11-2009 06:31 PM

Although their salaries are about equal, I'd take PMB over Lupul any day. We have enough shooters, we need a guy that likes to pass.

Marlowe Syn 05-11-2009 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 (Post 19520802)
Although their salaries are about equal, I'd take PMB over Lupul any day. We have enough shooters, we need a guy that likes to pass.

You kind of have that with Briere and he's not afraid to shoot. PMB is a great playmaker, but frustrates with his unwillingness to shoot. Doubly frustrating as he does have a decent wrister. He will not drive towards the net, ever! But he can skate in a circle that would make Kristi Yamaguchi envious. So I guess it is the grass is always greener syndrome. Side trade with you BiLLY:
To Phi: PMB and Pouliot
To Minn: Lupul, Nodl and 2009 3rd

I watched Nodl at St Cloud for a couple of years and I've been wanting to find a way to lure him back to Minnesota since he left.

ELab2 05-11-2009 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlowe Syn (Post 19525563)
You kind of have that with Briere and he's not afraid to shoot. PMB is a great playmaker, but frustrates with his unwillingness to shoot. Doubly frustrating as he does have a decent wrister. He will not drive towards the net, ever! But he can skate in a circle that would make Kristi Yamaguchi envious. So I guess it is the grass is always greener syndrome. Side trade with you BiLLY:
To Phi: PMB and Pouliot
To Minn: Lupul, Nodl and 2009 3rd

I watched Nodl at St Cloud for a couple of years and I've been wanting to find a way to lure him back to Minnesota since he left.

That doesn't do Philly any good.

Marlowe Syn 05-11-2009 10:17 PM

I think it helps you a little bit, but would help the Wild more. I do agree it is pretty much a lateral trade for Philly.

ELab2 05-11-2009 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlowe Syn (Post 19526462)
I think it helps you a little bit, but would help the Wild more. I do agree it is pretty much a lateral trade for Philly.

yeah it's more or less lateral, and if they're going to move Lupul they should be doing to for something that is needed like Harding.

State of Hockey 05-11-2009 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am The Mush (Post 19517274)
So the trade comes down to our 09 1st for Harding and a fourth? A first is a too much to pay for a goalie that played 11 games last year on a team known for making their goalies look good (Harding is also an RFA that you probably aren't resigning). A fourth is not making up that value difference IMO. Particularly since the depth of this year's draft makes that first pick more valuable than usual.

No, a first is borderline not enough. Harding is a former high 2nd rounder that's developed, ready, and has been highly successful at every level so far. Are you telling me that an unproven, not ready, no-guarantee-at-all late 1st rounder is worth more than a ready, proven, high 2nd rounder AND a 4th?

By the way, Minnesota goalies look good because they are good. Ask any Wild fan if Harding has had an easy time with the Wild. They'll all say that he has not. He commonly gets back-to-backs, a very high shot count, and little goal support. Last year Harding gave up 8 goals against Dallas and his coach thought he played a good game. Chew on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine (Post 19517699)
We aren't dealing our 1st for Harding

Enjoy your continued goalie problems then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHartnell19 (Post 19519326)
Not fair for Philly at all.

Lupul is pretty much equal to PMB
That makes: Philly's 1st for a RFA goalie who has never been a starter...and a 4th.

Very fair for Philly. You should be jumping all over a goalie of Harding's caliber AND a draft pick for a low first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 (Post 19519328)
Way too much value on Harding here.

Not enough value if history repeats itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic (Post 19520374)
BS

Minny gets Vinny for PMB, Harding, Gilles, 2010 1st, 4th round.

Call me crazy but isn't this one of those quantity for quality trades?

Almost any trade for quality ends up being that way. But that's a heckuva a lot of quality and quantity for Minnesota to give up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 (Post 19520645)
It's not about him being a good goalie, it's about his trade value. Trade value for goalies who have proven little to nothing is....little to nothing...

Trade values for somewhat unproven goalies with high potential are huge. That's why they're not traded very often. They're that valuable. When they are, like Mike Smith or Vesa Toskala, the return is big.

mercury 05-11-2009 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by State of Hockey (Post 19527103)
No, a first is borderline not enough. Harding is a former high 2nd rounder that's developed, ready, and has been highly successful at every level so far. Are you telling me that an unproven, not ready, no-guarantee-at-all late 1st rounder is worth more than a ready, proven, high 2nd rounder AND a 4th?

By the way, Minnesota goalies look good because they are good. Ask any Wild fan if Harding has had an easy time with the Wild. They'll all say that he has not. He commonly gets back-to-backs, a very high shot count, and little goal support. Last year Harding gave up 8 goals against Dallas and his coach thought he played a good game. Chew on that.


Enjoy your continued goalie problems then.


Very fair for Philly. You should be jumping all over a goalie of Harding's caliber AND a draft pick for a low first.


Not enough value if history repeats itself.


Almost any trade for quality ends up being that way. But that's a heckuva a lot of quality and quantity for Minnesota to give up.


Trade values for somewhat unproven goalies with high potential are huge. That's why they're not traded very often. They're that valuable. When they are, like Mike Smith or Vesa Toskala, the return is big.


Pardon me, but you are out of your mind. Harding can walk as an RFA with a 2nd rounder for compensation at $2.6 million per. Why on Earth would a team give up a 1st for a 4th and him and then still have to sign him? That is ludicrous.


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