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-   -   Other: So you want to propose a trade w/LA Kings? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=644673)

Rorschach 05-22-2009 05:01 PM

So you want to propose a trade w/LA Kings?
 
Lately there have been a lot of proposals involving LA. And almost all of them proposed by fans of other teams seem to be totally out of sync with what LA would move or would take. So I decided to make a cheat sheet for the other proposers and save everyones' time.

LA is attempting to come out of a rebuild. We are deep in picks, prospects and cap space. We want quality NHL players back that are in their 20s. We also like our talented players to be tough like Kovalchuk who is not a pushover. They don't have to throw down but they should be able to give a body check and take a check too. No hoverers.

Keep in mind that the Kings are young and loaded with talent everywhere but left wing. Even if we stay pat, we stand to improve greatly so we can afford to do no deals in terms of a trade rather than make a bad deal that makes no sense.


Here's what LA needs: (All players in their 20s)

1) First line - Left Wing

2) A dynamic first line scorer (creates plays from little and makes plays, scoring at a point a game or more) that is not a Right Wing (players that can play either wing are acceptable if they are a top 20 wing in this league, from Gagne to Zetterberg to Hossa to Gaborik, like that caliber, not necessarily exactly those players)...and by first line, I don't mean a guy that is on your first line. I mean a guy who would could be on any team's first line.

3) A veteran star two-way defenseman to possibly mentor our young defense corps and the uber amount of D prospects we already have...this player can be in his 30s depending on his caliber

4) Any real upgrade player at any position, especially for prospects/picks back, if that player is in the correct age range.

5) Unloading Tom Preissing's contract

6) This one is my personal opinion but I feel we need a quality 3rd line winger to cause mismatches in the playoffs and play on the Handzus/Simmonds line, again preferrably a LW but a RW will do in a pinch...would like a tough, smart veteran who can score a bit

7) And of course, this being HF boards, we will take your young stud players too like Schenn and Lucic but I doubt anyone's offering



Here's what LA doesn't need:

1) Your puck-moving defenseman or anyone named Tomas Kaberle

2) Your prospects, and even some of the Kings fans are goofing on this, asking for Van Riemsdyk

3) Your first rounder from this year that is a worse pick than our #5 overall...there is an excellent LW player that projects to be available at that pick named Magnus Paajarvi-Svenssen so if what you're offering isn't an upgrade of him at LW or even Center, forget it.

4) We are not one player away from The Cup so we do not need your veteran rentals.



Here's what LA has to offer:

1) Any pick from this year or next

2) Quality prospects at Defense

3) Quality prospects at Center

4) Quality prospects at Goaltending

5) Quality prospects at Right Wing

6) More cap space than God...ok, not really, but more cap space than 90% of the teams out there

7) Possibly Jack Johnson but not as a dump



Here's what LA won't trade: (Obviously everyone is available for a top 5-ish young player in the league such as Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Toews, etc. But I doubt those guys are being rushed to the trading block by their fans. )

1) Anything in their needs, duh...this includes our best LW Alexander Frolov, unless the deal returns an even better NHLer LW or two good NHL LWs that aren't as good as Frolov that fill two roster slots well

2) Dustin Brown - he is our captain and his attitude is the one our team is being built around

3) Drew Doughty - I'm not going to bother explaining this as just about everyone understands this

4) Any quality roster player where we aren't getting a better player at the same position in return that is in the age range mentioned above, or is a significant player that is a bigger need like LW. Quality players not mentioned already include: Handzus, Williams, Kopitar, Quincey, Greene, Simmonds, Stoll, Quick and Ersberg. These players have some value to the current building process and will not be dumped unless for an upgrade.


Thank you and perhaps other Kings fans can chip in and help refine this list as I don't speak for everyone.

Unlike the fans of many other teams on this board, there are no real untouchables, except maybe Brown and Doughty, on this team because this team was only good enough to miss the playoffs and get the #5th overall pick. We have no untouchable prospects despite the quality. So feel free to propose deals but if they don't fill the Kings needs while having the Kings give something that makes sense, well, flame on.

- R

Milan the God* 05-22-2009 05:31 PM

Heatley has a NMC, but just for fun I'm wondering what you guys would offer. Do you see Frolov + 5th overall as fair value? You improve at the LW position.

Or maybe a deal around Spezza?

I doubt any gets traded but I just wanna know what LA would have to offer for them. I had heard some Spezza to LA rumors.

VictoryRose 05-22-2009 05:33 PM

dean is not bringing Spezza to this team.

ukyo 05-22-2009 05:37 PM

Ugh, while I think you are accurate for most of your points, I fear this is going to come off as self-serving.

Add another need to the list: a first line center (yes this is why Lecavalier is a recently hot topic). The Kings will not be going anywhere with Stoll or Handzus as their second line center.

I do not think the need for a mentor on D precludes puck-moving defensemen.

Also, I do not think Quincey is off the tradeable list even if we don't get a defenseman back. That goes for any of our defensemen not named Doughty.

DaAnimal 05-22-2009 05:37 PM

frolov + 5th pick = Spezza


Hmmmmmm sounds tempting.

VictoryRose 05-22-2009 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaAnimal (Post 19656754)
frolov + 5th pick = Spezza


Hmmmmmm sounds tempting.

Keep dreaming. Thankfully, it'll never happen.

VictoryRose 05-22-2009 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukyo (Post 19656751)
Also, I do not think Quincey is off the tradeable list even if we don't get a defenseman back. That goes for any of our defensemen not named Doughty.


Quincey isn't untouchable, that said, he isn't going anywhere easily.

Canuck774 05-22-2009 06:13 PM

To LA: rights to Ohlund
Mason Raymond
Van 1st

To Van: Hickey

Kurrilino 05-22-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canuck774 (Post 19657076)
To LA: rights to Ohlund
Mason Raymond
Van 1st

To Van: Hickey

uhmm no......... we don't need anymore rights.

don't think Vancouver has that left wing we are searching for

Rorschach 05-22-2009 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukyo (Post 19656751)
Ugh, while I think you are accurate for most of your points, I fear this is going to come off as self-serving.

Add another need to the list: a first line center (yes this is why Lecavalier is a recently hot topic). The Kings will not be going anywhere with Stoll or Handzus as their second line center.

I do not think the need for a mentor on D precludes puck-moving defensemen.

Also, I do not think Quincey is off the tradeable list even if we don't get a defenseman back. That goes for any of our defensemen not named Doughty.


Yeah I was worried a little bit about that too. I was hoping that if other Kings fans added to it, then it wouldn't be so big of a deal though. :)

Also, I do not count Quincey as untrade-able, he's just untrade-able if someone offers a lesser defenseman. If they want to offer a better defenseman and want Quincey+, then it works. My point is, we won't dump him or offer him in a trade down because he is a contributor on the current NHL squad.

- R

AKAY47 05-22-2009 07:02 PM

I can see this one..

To OTT:
Frolov
Boyle
Teubert
LA 1st


To LA:
Dany Heatley
Jim O'Brien
OTT 1st

RAZZIE King 05-22-2009 07:11 PM

I wouldn't mind a couple of veterans (over 30) acting as mentors for our kids to prepare them for their NHL future...but we can get them out of free agency...not trade...

Add Hickey to the Do Not Trade list... I have my reasons for this...

TheHotRock 05-22-2009 07:24 PM

how would you kings fans feel about
Drury and Zherdev's rights for Jack Johnson and a 3rd?

MinnesotaFats 05-22-2009 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorschach (Post 19656392)



6) This one is my personal opinion but I feel we need a quality 3rd line winger to cause mismatches in the playoffs and play on the Handzus/Simmonds line, again preferrably a LW but a RW will do in a pinch...would like a tough, smart veteran who can score a bit


- R


1927 05-22-2009 07:47 PM

Based on the criteria provided, from the Maple Leafs roster these two players seem to complement the Kings needs.

Pavel Kubina

Pavel Kubina is a veteran defenseman with excellent leadership skills, with the ability to mentor the defensive core. The bonus with Kubina is his Stanley Cup experience. Kubina has helped Luke Schenn mature on the Leafs and can help the same with Drew Doughty. The $5 million contract is manageable for the Los Angeles Kings, and he will be there only for one year to mentor the kids, unless the Kings want to extend the contract. Kubina could be the perfect fit for the Kings.

Nikolai Kulemin

This up and coming dynamic 22 year old left winger is the 20 something player the Kings are looking for, at a good salary.

Here are some left wing players that did not have mind blowing first seasons, but still grew to have productive careers.

Nikolai Kulemin
GP G A PTS +/- PIM
73 15 16 31 -8 18

Brendan Shanahan
GP G A PTS +/- PIM
71 7 19 26 -20 131

Markus Naslund
GP G A PTS +/- PIM
71 4 7 11 -3 27

Cory Stillman
GP G A PTS +/- PIM
74 16 19 35 -5 41

Patrick Elias
GP G A PTS +/- PIM
74 18 19 37 18 28

Although Kulemin did not have flashy statistics like Alexander Ovechkin in his first year, he still has lots of improvement ahead, just like some of the left wing players above. Evgeni Malkin loved to play with Kulemin back in Russia, and for the right price the Leafs could look at trading this diamond in the rough to the Kings.

Would Dean Lombardi be interested in these two Leaf players, and what would you believe he would offer for both players?

Reaper45 05-22-2009 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHotRock (Post 19657685)
how would you kings fans feel about
Drury and Zherdev's rights for Jack Johnson and a 3rd?

That's a whole lot of fail.

Saren 05-22-2009 07:52 PM

As an outsider looking in, maybe LA should pursue Kovalchuk? Or why not just wait till FA hits and nab Gaborik (although he's not a LW)?

Reaper45 05-22-2009 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon (Post 19658198)
As an outsider looking in, maybe LA should pursue Kovalchuk? Or why not just wait till FA hits and nab Gaborik (although he's not a LW)?

Atlanta isn't going to trade Kovalchuk and Gaborik is going to end up costing more than Lecavalier.

stempniaksen 05-22-2009 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKAY47 (Post 19657520)
I can see this one..

To OTT:
Frolov
Boyle
Teubert
LA 1st


To LA:
Dany Heatley
Jim O'Brien
OTT 1st

Fail. I'm an Ottawa fan, and a Heatley hater, but even I know he's worth more than that. I'm sure if you guys were serious about aquiring Heatley it would take Johnson, Frolov, 1st for Heatley +

TheHotRock 05-22-2009 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45 (Post 19658125)
That's a whole lot of fail.

that bad? i mean, you are getting roughly 120 points out of it. yea, drury's contract is awful but he's a great penalty killer, can easilly put up 55-60 points and only has 3 years to go on the deal. he also has "intangibles" and is a "leader" who can "teach your kids how to win".

The Depahted 05-22-2009 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHotRock (Post 19657685)
how would you kings fans feel about
Drury and Zherdev's rights for Jack Johnson and a 3rd?

If the King's were willing to take on that much salary, I'd take this if I'm in their shoes. That's a lot of talent coming back their way

phlocky 05-22-2009 09:44 PM

Hmm, first about a vet dman to mentor your young dmen. Honestly, what I would do is hire Darien Hatcher as an assistnat coach. Believe it or not he was EXCELLENT with our young dmen. I know it surprised the heck out of me but he is a very good teached. He made every young dman he was paired with much much better and all this while they had to make up for Hatchers lack of mobility. Our coaches and managment all spoke very highly of Hatchers affect and on ice teaching of our younger dmen. If Philly is dumb enough to let Hatcher out of the organization I think he'd be a great addition to a team with young dmen in need to coaching, mainly about reading on-ice plays.


Guys that fit your requirements that are on the flyers right now. Danny Briere - 1st line center, ppg player, on a high end contract that doesn't expire until he is like 36 and his production likely to drop. He won't get much in the way of a return for a prerential ppg player and proven playoff performer. If you have the cap space to absorb his comtract he could be a solid performer for you for the next 4 seasons. After that he can be bought out for a fraction of his cap hit (3 mil and 2 mil in his last 2 seasons). the flyers primary need is a solid young goalie prospect, possibly Bernier or Quick, your choice. You get your center, we get a goalie prospect and cap relief. However, Brier has a NMC so it's unlikely this would happen.

2nd, Gagne fits the bill as a 1st line LW - he's right at the age limit requirements you set and in all likelyhood, we won't be able to keep him after 2 years. Gagne is one of thebest LW's in the game so the price would be high. Honestly, it would probably take your 5th overall pick to get Gagne and I can't see that happening.

JVR is a top end LW prospect and though he may not be a proven 1st line winger, give him time. I honestly think that LA is still a few years away and shouldn't be looking for a "win now" solution. I think you'd be better served stocking up on players like JVR and try to set yourself up for a playoff run in 2-3 years and serious up runs a year or 2 after that. I don't know what it would take to get JVR but if you had a young core of Bernier/quick in goal, JJ and Doughty as a top pairing and JVR/Brown/MPS up front is a solid base for any franchise moving forward for 5-10 years.

Reaper45 05-22-2009 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHotRock (Post 19658531)
that bad? i mean, you are getting roughly 120 points out of it. yea, drury's contract is awful but he's a great penalty killer, can easilly put up 55-60 points and only has 3 years to go on the deal. he also has "intangibles" and is a "leader" who can "teach your kids how to win".

It's not that bad, but Zherdev is not a Dean Lombardi/Terry Murray player and Drury is too expensive.

BrindamoursNose 05-22-2009 10:27 PM

To the guy wanting to trade Chris Drury to the Kings:

Just because they have the cap-space, doesn't mean you're going to get a top prospect in return because he's a pretty good player.

You won't get equal talent in return for Drury; it's unfortunate, but true.

DapperDan 05-22-2009 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlocky (Post 19659682)
Hmm, first about a vet dman to mentor your young dmen. Honestly, what I would do is hire Darien Hatcher as an assistnat coach. Believe it or not he was EXCELLENT with our young dmen. I know it surprised the heck out of me but he is a very good teached. He made every young dman he was paired with much much better and all this while they had to make up for Hatchers lack of mobility. Our coaches and managment all spoke very highly of Hatchers affect and on ice teaching of our younger dmen. If Philly is dumb enough to let Hatcher out of the organization I think he'd be a great addition to a team with young dmen in need to coaching, mainly about reading on-ice plays.


Guys that fit your requirements that are on the flyers right now. Danny Briere - 1st line center, ppg player, on a high end contract that doesn't expire until he is like 36 and his production likely to drop. He won't get much in the way of a return for a prerential ppg player and proven playoff performer. If you have the cap space to absorb his comtract he could be a solid performer for you for the next 4 seasons. After that he can be bought out for a fraction of his cap hit (3 mil and 2 mil in his last 2 seasons). the flyers primary need is a solid young goalie prospect, possibly Bernier or Quick, your choice. You get your center, we get a goalie prospect and cap relief. However, Brier has a NMC so it's unlikely this would happen.

2nd, Gagne fits the bill as a 1st line LW - he's right at the age limit requirements you set and in all likelyhood, we won't be able to keep him after 2 years. Gagne is one of thebest LW's in the game so the price would be high. Honestly, it would probably take your 5th overall pick to get Gagne and I can't see that happening.

JVR is a top end LW prospect and though he may not be a proven 1st line winger, give him time. I honestly think that LA is still a few years away and shouldn't be looking for a "win now" solution. I think you'd be better served stocking up on players like JVR and try to set yourself up for a playoff run in 2-3 years and serious up runs a year or 2 after that. I don't know what it would take to get JVR but if you had a young core of Bernier/quick in goal, JJ and Doughty as a top pairing and JVR/Brown/MPS up front is a solid base for any franchise moving forward for 5-10 years.

Gagne - Sure
JVR - Yes, please
Briere - **** NO


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