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-   -   Proposal: Edm/ott (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=650104)

Loweded 06-11-2009 06:15 PM

Edm/ott
 
EDM gets:
Heatley

OTT gets:
Vishnovsky
Nilsson
Schremp
2nd Round

hfboardsuser 06-11-2009 06:17 PM

On behalf of all Oiler fans, I apologize.

Hale The Villain 06-11-2009 06:19 PM

No thanks

It won't be Visnovsky, his salary is too high

One of Gilbert/Souray
One of Gagner/Cogliano
One 1st round pick/2nd round pick (if Souray is included with Gagner)

Take it or leave it, there are 29 other teams in the league that want Heatley. We don't want Nilsson, Schremp or a 2nd as main pieces in a deal involving a 50 goal scorer

Chalupa Batman 06-11-2009 06:19 PM

Good thing you threw in the second rounder. It was pretty lopsided without that.

hfboardsuser 06-11-2009 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza (Post 19881069)
No thanks

It won't be Visnovsky, his salary is too high

One of Gilbert/Souray
One of Gagner/Cogliano
One 1st round pick/2nd round pick (if Souray is included with Gagner)

Take it or leave it, there are 29 other teams in the league that want Heatley.

That's definitely fair, but why is it no Sens fan want back a LW? I mean, we have a decent young one in O'Sullivan.

Spawn 06-11-2009 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza (Post 19881069)
No thanks

It won't be Visnovsky, his salary is too high

One of Gilbert/Souray
One of Gagner/Cogliano
One 1st round pick/2nd round pick (if Souray is included with Gagner)

Take it or leave it, there are 29 other teams in the league that want Heatley. We don't want Nilsson, Schremp or a 2nd as main pieces in a deal involving a 50 goal scorer

Gilbert, Cogliano, 1st
Souray, Cogliano, 2nd

No Gagner.

There are plenty of teams that would be interested in Heatley, but realistically there aren't 29 teams that can afford to take on his salary, and after that how many of those teams have the parts to get it done. Edmonton can do both.

Hale The Villain 06-11-2009 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Bugg (Post 19881088)
That's definitely fair, but why is it no Sens fan want back a LW? I mean, we have a decent young one in O'Sullivan.

You take the BPA. Cogliano and Gagner are both better than O'Sullivan, although if it was Souray, O'Sullivan and EDM 1st I would do that if I was Bryan Murray

hfboardsuser 06-11-2009 06:28 PM

Oh, and what's the fascination with Souray? I mean, you say Visnovsky makes too much, but he takes home only $200K more than what Souray does.

Besides, Souray would never, ever wave his NTC to go East. It's just not going to happen because of his kids.

surshot* 06-11-2009 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza (Post 19881125)
You take the BPA. Cogliano and Gagner are both better than O'Sullivan, although if it was Souray, O'Sullivan and EDM 1st I would do that if I was Bryan Murray

I would do that as well. Souray, Patio and EDM 1st next year for Heatley. Deal?:D

PDO 06-11-2009 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza (Post 19881069)
No thanks

It won't be Visnovsky, his salary is too high

One of Gilbert/Souray
One of Gagner/Cogliano
One 1st round pick/2nd round pick (if Souray is included with Gagner)

Take it or leave it, there are 29 other teams in the league that want Heatley. We don't want Nilsson, Schremp or a 2nd as main pieces in a deal involving a 50 goal scorer

And... how many of those teams can take a $7,500,000 cap hit?

And a $10,000,000 salary?

And he'll take a trade to?

And are in/on the verge of being in a win-now mode?

And have the pieces?

And want him?

There's maybe, maybe, 5 teams that meet all that criteria...

Pronger x2, Hossa, Pronger, Thornton, Luongo, Havlat, Richards, Smyth, Boyle...

Not one of these players got a high draft pick or a legit difference maker - why is Heatley any different?

Sorry to be a downer, but it's more likely you see something like Penner, Nilsson, Staios and a pick (not 10th OV) than anyone like Gagner, or even Cogliano, involved.

Heatley's value is sewered. And he's coming off a poor season. Whether it's Edmonton or SJS or anyone; he's going to bring back some lottery tickets, some salary, and multiple average-ish assets.

nabob 06-11-2009 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copper and Blue (Post 19881034)
EDM gets:
Heatley

OTT gets:
Vishnovsky
Nilsson
Schremp
2nd Round

While Vish is a very very good player I still think Ottawa needs to get back a forward who can help replace something that they are losing in Heatley. Nilsson is still too much of a ?.

I think the oilers best offer might be

Gilbert
Cogliano
2nd in '09
1st in '10

That gives the Oilers a top 6 of

Hemsky Horcoff Heatley
Penner gagner O'Sullivan

OilTownHero 06-11-2009 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Bugg (Post 19881051)
On behalf of all Oiler fans, I apologize.

I second this. Thanks Bugg.

CloutierForVezina 06-11-2009 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza (Post 19881069)
No thanks

It won't be Visnovsky, his salary is too high

One of Gilbert/Souray
One of Gagner/Cogliano
One 1st round pick/2nd round pick (if Souray is included with Gagner)

Take it or leave it, there are 29 other teams in the league that want Heatley. We don't want Nilsson, Schremp or a 2nd as main pieces in a deal involving a 50 goal scorer

No. Gagner is not being moved. Edmonton will not trade away their future like that.

Fourier 06-11-2009 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor No (Post 19881070)
Good thing you threw in the second rounder. It was pretty lopsided without that.

I think that it is an absolute HF rule that a 2nd rounder smooths out all singularities.

CeskyHokej 06-11-2009 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 19881228)

Pronger x2, Hossa, Pronger, Thornton, Luongo, Havlat, Richards, Smyth, Boyle...

Not one of these players got a high draft pick or a legit difference maker - why is Heatley any different?

Not to nitpick too much here but:

Hossa (a UFA to be) got back a first rounder Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Angelo Esposito

Pronger got back Lupul, Ladislav Smid, plus Anaheim's first-round draft choice in 2007, a conditional first-round pick and a second-round draft choice in 2008

Luongo for Todd Bertuzzi (was thought of as a impact player at that time)

Smyth (UFA to be) traded for Robert Nilsson and Ryan O'Marra and a first-round pick.

Plus half those deals were pending UFA. Even Boyle got a first rounder back. Also didn't Heatley get traded for a difference maker last time?

Joey Moss 06-11-2009 07:34 PM

Would sens fans do this:

Tom Gilbert, 10th overall pick, Riley Nash (2nd top prospect) and Robert Nilsson for Dany Heatley?

Novak Djokovic 06-11-2009 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilGagner89 (Post 19881802)
Would sens fans do this:

Tom Gilbert, 10th overall pick, Riley Nash (2nd top prospect) and Robert Nilsson for Dany Heatley?

We would want an established forward back and a young defenseman.

Cogliano, Gilbert and 10th overall for Heatley is something I might consider....but I don't make the decisions. :D

EDIT- If LA rumor is true, I'd be all over that. Frolov and Johnson are better than anything Oilers can offer....

sensens 06-11-2009 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CeskyHokej (Post 19881748)
Not to nitpick too much here but:

The most ironic is unquestionably that Marian Hossa was traded for Dany Heatley... by this definition, Heatley himself is not an 'impact player'.

In any case, Heatley will get considerably more in trade than the table scraps some people seem to feel Ottawa will be obliged to accept. And if Oilers fans think they will also be able to magically solve their Dustin Penner idiocy through this, they're dreaming in a special shade of dim - lest they forget that there just might be at least a couple of other teams interested in landing a scoring winger of Heatley's calibre.

PDO 06-11-2009 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CeskyHokej (Post 19881748)
Not to nitpick too much here but:

Hossa (a UFA to be) got back a first rounder Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Angelo Esposito

Pronger got back Lupul, Ladislav Smid, plus Anaheim's first-round draft choice in 2007, a conditional first-round pick and a second-round draft choice in 2008

Luongo for Todd Bertuzzi (was thought of as a impact player at that time)

Smyth (UFA to be) traded for Robert Nilsson and Ryan O'Marra and a first-round pick.

Plus half those deals were pending UFA. Even Boyle got a first rounder back. Also didn't Heatley get traded for a difference maker last time?

Key phrases: High Draft pick & difference makers. The highest draft pick listed there is 15th OV.. in a bad draft year. Ana, Pitts & SJS were all very late in the first round.

The first Hossa trade is the exception, but the second ain't much... Colby Armstong isn't exactly irreplaceable.

Joey Moss 06-11-2009 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! (Post 19881864)
We would want an established forward back and a young defenseman.

Cogliano, Gilbert and 10th overall for Heatley is something I might consider....but I don't make the decisions. :D

EDIT- If LA rumor is true, I'd be all over that. Frolov and Johnson are better than anything Oilers can offer....

Gilbert>>>Johnson
2 of Cogliano/O'Sullivan/Eberle/Nash/10th overall = Frolov. maybe not 10th and Nash together but anything else does.

I think it's close.

sensens 06-11-2009 07:46 PM

Key phrases: impending UFA vs. signed for multiple years. Heatley is not a playoff rental, and for a team like Edmonton avoiding the UFA pool is a major benefit. The Oilers may be a good fit in a lot of ways on paper, but if they're not willing to part with anything of relatively significant value, they're not going to get a player of Heatley's calibre.

PDO 06-11-2009 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sensens (Post 19881940)
Key phrases: impending UFA vs. signed for multiple years. Heatley is not a playoff rental, and for a team like Edmonton avoiding the UFA pool is a major consideration here. The Oilers may be a good fit in a lot of ways on paper, but if they're not willing to part with anything of relatively significant value, they're not going to get a player of Heatley's calibre.

Pronger to Ana, Boyle to SJS, Richards to Dallas, Thornton to SJS...

Not only do star players almost NEVER get a great return... but Heatley:

A) Is coming off a poor year.
B) Has an NMC, something Pronger didn't, nor did Thornton.
C) Does not have a value contract.

Look, I'm not trying to be a dick, but every GM who knows Heatley is available and wants to play there knows in reality they're up against very few bidders.

I like Ottawa - if you can flip him for JJ, Frolov and the 5th I'll be happy... but I'll be shocked too. It's just not the way these things go.

PlantersOye 06-11-2009 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Bugg (Post 19881051)
On behalf of all Oiler fans, I apologize.

:laugh:

sensens 06-11-2009 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 19881998)
I like Ottawa - if you can flip him for JJ, Frolov and the 5th I'll be happy... but I'll be shocked too. It's just not the way these things go.

Frolov is an impending UFA, Johnson is apparently a bit of a headache, and the Pronger deal to Anaheim (which I think is probably the most relevant comparable) fetched a young Lupul, Smid, and two 1st round picks. Are those returns really so different? I'll admit the Kings one sounds 'bigger', but factor in the lack of meaningful RFA years for both roster players, and I'm not sure the argument really holds.

At the end of the day, it's the Kings trading from their strength, to up the profile and top-line skill level of their team. The Oilers have strengths as well - but they're not going to close any deals for Heatley if they approach the situation like they're doing the Senators a favour by even considering a trade.

Roof Daddy 06-11-2009 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 19881998)
Pronger to Ana, Boyle to SJS, Richards to Dallas, Thornton to SJS...

I would say this is the most interesting reference point, seeing as how it was the most recent of the ones you mentioned. Sens fans consider that Boyle actually didn't want to move but was still traded (therefore TBay had nothing working against them such as a player demanding a trade). And what he got back was...

Matt Carle
Ty Wishart
1st 09(despite being the start of the year, pretty sure everyone had that pick pegged anywhere from 24-30)
4th 09

And SJ got Lukowich as well

Any of our top 4 are better than Carle. Wishart=Petry. Our 1st better than their 1st. 29 teams could have conceivably bid for Boyle. Heatley wants out and wants to go to the west. 5 teams (as someone mentioned) who could bid for him at the most?

Visnovsky, O'Sullivan, 1st sounds pretty realistic. Frolov may or may not sign, but will definitely be shooting for 5.5+. JJ has been rumored to be asking for 4 mil. I'm not saying that Fro and JJ aren't better than Vis and Sully, but consider contracts and the 10th overall pick, and you're still going to tell me you'd rather do the LA thing? Seemed to me the Sens most dire need was an all-star calibre puck mover. Vis fits the bill, JJ doesn't.


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