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-   -   Offseason Moves Discussion Thread III (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=651999)

Langway 06-17-2009 11:42 AM

Offseason Moves Discussion Thread III
 
Thread I & Thread II.

OVMVP 06-17-2009 11:44 AM

Shouldn't this be labeled thread III :D
Just saying

EDIT: Wow, changed right as I say it

CapsWolverinesUSA 06-17-2009 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 (Post 19951400)
4th line LW. I'd rather see Laing on the 4th line then a guy like Bourque. If Bourque is going to make the team it needs to be in the top-9. I don't like having young offensive players playing on the 4th line. It doesn't give them a chance to succeed.

The problem here is that I just can't see us going into next season without someone on the 3rd/4th line who can fight (sorry Brads, you ain't that guy). Laing being the 4th line RW means he replaced Brash. Where do we get our muscle from? You can pencil in Steckel, Gordo, and Bradley into other bottom 6 roles. So that means we only have two open spots, at least 1 of which (and often both of which) will be filled by some combination of Fehr, Nylander, Clark, or Laich night in, night out.

Drake1588 06-17-2009 11:47 AM

Playoff Production:

Alexander Ovechkin 14gp, 11-10-21
Nicklas Backstrom 14gp, 3-12-15
Alexander Semin 14gp, 5-9-14
Mike Green 14gp, 1-8-9
Sergei Fedorov 14gp, 1-7-8
Tom Poti 14gp, 2-5-7
Brooks Laich 14gp, 3-4-7
Matt Bradley 14gp, 2-4-6
Viktor Kozlov 14gp, 4-2-6
Dave Steckel 14gp, 3-2-5
Tomas Fleischmann 14gp, 3-1-4
Boyd Gordon 14gp, 0-3-3
Chris Clark 8gp, 1-0-1
Michael Nylander 3gp, 0-0-0
Eric Fehr 9gp, 0-0-0

That is playoff performance, with contract for the moment excluded. What kind of picture does it paint? Well, it's not far out of whack. The money and the future moneyed stars are on the board, with the young guns all in the top four. Green's a bit low, but that's been dealt with via the injury grapevine.

Fleischmann clocks in at 3-1-4, and he played every game. Is that a concern? Sure, I suppose it is. The third liners out-produced him.

Yet Kozlov, who makes a lot more, and has to do more heavy lifting, clocked in at 4-2-6, only marginally better. He is gone to Russia anyway, and that hole needs to be replaced from without or within the system. That worries me, even if I was never Kozlov's biggest fan. Fehr put up goose eggs, and hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy or stay in the lineup, and isn't steadily improving like Fleischmann. That worries me. Nylander can't even play his way into the lineup, much less contribute. At that salary, that's a huge worry. Clark played a fair number of games, and went 1-0-0. At the salary and term, and from the captain, that's a worry.

What is a concern? Nylander is untradeable. Pothier is coming off a concussion and untradeable. Clark is coming off long-term recovery from major surgery, and with that contract, is also untradeable. The team's starting goalie played one game in the playoffs, and after his meltdown, may be untradeable.

Those are concerns. Fleischmann's 3-1-4 in the playoffs and $725,000 salary? Brother, that's not the problem. Just because Nylander, Clark and Pothier are going nowhere, whereas teams would gladly take Fleischmann, does not automatically mean the team should unload Fleischmann. It means he has some value to a team in this league, in this capped environment.

All that trading Fleischmann will do is dump 19 goals, shed negligible salary, and create a third top-six hole that the team needs to fill, with too little money to do it.

Foy 06-17-2009 11:48 AM

Laing is around in case something happens to Gordo/Steckel or the team has a rash of other injuries and the coach wants a sparkplug out on the ice. He's a depth player.

Backstrom #19 06-17-2009 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA (Post 19951540)
The problem here is that I just can't see us going into next season without someone on the 3rd/4th line who can fight (sorry Brads, you ain't that guy). Laing being the 4th line RW means he replaced Brash. Where do we get our muscle from? You can pencil in Steckel, Gordo, and Bradley into other bottom 6 roles. So that means we only have two open spots, at least 1 of which (and often both of which) will be filled by some combination of Fehr, Nylander, Clark, or Laich night in, night out.

I'm fine with letting Brads and Erskine handle the fighting. There are plenty of other teams in the NHL that don't have a heavy weight fighter.

I'm not saying Laing will make the team next year(even though I want him to) but I do think Laing will get a chance to make the team. He was one of the last cuts from the team last year and could help a PK that wasn't that good last year.

RandyHolt 06-17-2009 12:10 PM

Quote:

C-A-P-S
You know what they say about making assumptions don't you...

Personally, while I am all for keeping Flash for another year, unless he's bringing in a real defensive defenseman via trade. That said, I certainly wouldn't call myself being content with the status quo.

At this point I am all for trading, waiving, loaning: Nylander, Theodore, Clark, Pothier and Schultz. These guys to me are either too expensive or too poor a performer to stay on this team next year.

I also would love to see Alzner, Bourque and Aucoin all get a shot next year. If they can get a Kubina via trade...perfect. If they get some grizzled vets to give some experience and grit on the wings at a decent price wonderful.

But since the team is cash strapped to me Flash's 19 goals is too much of a bargain. You can go out and get more defensively responible forwards without bumping Flash from the team. That's all I'm saying.
Yeah and I have certainly made an ass out of myself putting ill conceived thoughts into key strokes.

I am cool with Flash and his great offensive production but I just dont see Bruce rallying the existing troops into being "playoff" kinda guys. A few personnel moves may do the trick hence my thoughts on Flash, farthest away from that playoff guy with great trade value, coming to mind. Bruce would probably quit if GMGM move Tomas anyways.

I am all for moving Sarge and Pothier. Again, Sarge with the longest way to go of our existing core to be that playoff kind of guy. Pothier is probably gone next year regardless he has peaked; why stiffle the guys below him a year? Get Alzner in here give every chance to Carlson and IF they fail, then make a big kubina deadline move.

Winning the ECHL and Calder tells me our prospect pool deserve chances. Getting those 2trophies tells me we are actually a year late in doing so.

CapsWolverinesUSA 06-17-2009 12:23 PM

The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that, if we're not going to add top-6 talent via free agency or trades, we should give Giroux and Aucoin a significant chance to play with Semin and/or Laich on the 2nd line in the preseason.

I know all the "only an AHL player" concerns. But Giroux and Aucoin had ridiculous chemistry and put up insane numbers on an AHL championship team that used the same system as the Caps. The skill and speed from a guy like Semin on the other wing could really make up for a lot of the concerns about these guys being a little slow for NHL scoring roles. Or, the hardworking two-way game of Laich would be a close replica to the role Graham Mink filled in Hershey, except with proven NHL ability.

This would be such a cheap way to fill our gaps in the top-6. While I'd certainly rather be aggressive and go get some proven veterans, if we're not going that route, I would love to see this option succeed over sticking a combination of disjointed 3rd liners together and calling it a second line.

Don't know if it will work, but I want to see it given a chance.

Backstrom #19 06-17-2009 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA (Post 19951993)
The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that, if we're not going to add top-6 talent via free agency or trades, we should give Giroux and Aucoin a significant chance to play with Semin and/or Laich on the 2nd line in the preseason.

I know all the "only an AHL player" concerns. But Giroux and Aucoin had ridiculous chemistry and put up insane numbers on an AHL championship team that used the same system as the Caps. The skill and speed from a guy like Semin on the other wing could really make up for a lot of the concerns about these guys being a little slow for NHL scoring roles. Or, the hardworking two-way game of Laich would be a close replica to the role Graham Mink filled in Hershey, except with proven NHL ability.

This would be such a cheap way to fill our gaps in the top-6. While I'd certainly rather be aggressive and go get some proven veterans, if we're not going that route, I would love to see this option succeed over sticking a combination of disjointed 3rd liners together and calling it a second line.

Don't know if it will work, but I want to see it given a chance.

They could give it a chance in training camp and preseason.

Semin has shown he can produce with AHL players(Kris Beech). I wouldn't mind some AHL players getting a chance. I've said this before, but as long as we have Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin and Green the Caps are going to be top-10 in scoring.

Roccoman 06-17-2009 12:58 PM

interesting idea CapsWUSA - i'll agree with the notion that we will fill our holes primarily thru Hershey... for me, its always easier to visualize things so:

AO - BACKIS - HOLE#1
FLASH - HOLE#2 - SEMIN
BRADLEY - STECKEL - HOLE#3
HOLE#4 - GORDON - HOLE#5

this assumes we cant shake Clark, Nyls, or Theo's contracts and therefor cannot add anyone with a real salary via free agency.... it also assumes Brashear is not brought back.

from within the organization (including the 3 albatrosses above) i could imagine something like:

HOLE#1: Giroux - after the season he just had, give him a chance up there. Clark is a possibility as well - IF he is healthy.
HOLE#2: my gut tells me its Laich. it also tells me its lunchtime. Nylander can't be discounted here either, since there is no chance an NHL squad takes him off our hands. Aucoin is interesting, but i dont see him as a full-time option as a true #2 center.
HOLE#3: BORK. good skating sparkplug will do anything to get an NHL sweater, and the kid deserves it. hopefully he can work his way into that 'Utility Player' role and move up and down the lineup. he certainly has the skill to be a top 6.
HOLE#4 & HOLE#5: this is where i look at who was called up last season. Osala, Beagle jump out to me, but so does Andrew Gordon... yes this leaves us without a true heavyweight but i dont know if we really need one on a nightly basis.

that would give us a lineup looking something like:

AO - BACKIS - Giroux / Clark
FLASH - Laich / Nylander - SEMIN
BRADLEY - STECKEL - Bourque
Osala - B.GORDON - Beagle / A.Gordon

i dunno, thats an awfully young team - that looks like a step backwards kinda team... and it does not even address the Defense. :help:

on the flipside though, we can ride out the bad contracts, get young guys some experience, and really be players at the trade deadline.

CapsWolverinesUSA 06-17-2009 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roccoman (Post 19952391)
interesting idea CapsWUSA - i'll agree with the notion that we will fill our holes primarily thru Hershey...

The way I look at it, Giroux and Aucoin should be given a chance as a duo. Both guys had great seasons, but together, they were other-worldly. And it just so happens we're short a center and a winger in our top-6. Instead of penciling Flash in on the #2 LW, I'd rather give the Hershey chemistry a chance to translate. I think the odds of both players succeeding goes up significantly that way compared to just plugging them in to pre-determine holes. If Flash ends up on the 3rd line with Steckel and Nylander, so be it. That's not a bad 3rd line.

CapitalsCupFantasy 06-17-2009 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake1588 (Post 19951556)
Playoff Production:

Alexander Ovechkin 14gp, 11-10-21
Nicklas Backstrom 14gp, 3-12-15
Alexander Semin 14gp, 5-9-14
Mike Green 14gp, 1-8-9
Sergei Fedorov 14gp, 1-7-8
Tom Poti 14gp, 2-5-7
Brooks Laich 14gp, 3-4-7
Matt Bradley 14gp, 2-4-6
Viktor Kozlov 14gp, 4-2-6
Dave Steckel 14gp, 3-2-5
Tomas Fleischmann 14gp, 3-1-4
Boyd Gordon 14gp, 0-3-3
Chris Clark 8gp, 1-0-1
Michael Nylander 3gp, 0-0-0
Eric Fehr 9gp, 0-0-0

That is playoff performance, with contract for the moment excluded. What kind of picture does it paint? Well, it's not far out of whack. The money and the future moneyed stars are on the board, with the young guns all in the top four. Green's a bit low, but that's been dealt with via the injury grapevine.

Fleischmann clocks in at 3-1-4, and he played every game. Is that a concern? Sure, I suppose it is. The third liners out-produced him.

Yet Kozlov, who makes a lot more, and has to do more heavy lifting, clocked in at 4-2-6, only marginally better. He is gone to Russia anyway, and that hole needs to be replaced from without or within the system. That worries me, even if I was never Kozlov's biggest fan. Fehr put up goose eggs, and hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy or stay in the lineup, and isn't steadily improving like Fleischmann. That worries me. Nylander can't even play his way into the lineup, much less contribute. At that salary, that's a huge worry. Clark played a fair number of games, and went 1-0-0. At the salary and term, and from the captain, that's a worry.

What is a concern? Nylander is untradeable. Pothier is coming off a concussion and untradeable. Clark is coming off long-term recovery from major surgery, and with that contract, is also untradeable. The team's starting goalie played one game in the playoffs, and after his meltdown, may be untradeable.

Those are concerns. Fleischmann's 3-1-4 in the playoffs and $725,000 salary? Brother, that's not the problem. Just because Nylander, Clark and Pothier are going nowhere, whereas teams would gladly take Fleischmann, does not automatically mean the team should unload Fleischmann. It means he has some value to a team in this league, in this capped environment.

All that trading Fleischmann will do is dump 19 goals, shed negligible salary, and create a third top-six hole that the team needs to fill, with too little money to do it.

Awesome post dude. :handclap:

Bananas 06-17-2009 01:16 PM

McPhee should be like the eye of Sauron this offseason, hell bent on only one thing. But instead of getting the one ring to rule them all, it should be getting rid of Michael Nylander.

strungout 06-17-2009 01:19 PM

The thing I keep getting hung up on is the top line RW.

Who in the blue hell is going to play there?

I keep sticking Clark in there in line ups and such....but really...he can't be counted on to return to form. Flash isn't that guy. Laich is more valuable in other places. Semin needs to not be on the same line as Ovie....but maybe they go there if nothing else works.

Meh.

CapsWolverinesUSA 06-17-2009 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strungout (Post 19952644)
The thing I keep getting hung up on is the top line RW.

Who in the blue hell is going to play there?

I keep sticking Clark in there in line ups and such....but really...he can't be counted on to return to form. Flash isn't that guy. Laich is more valuable in other places. Semin needs to not be on the same line as Ovie....but maybe they go there if nothing else works.

Meh.

Laich would be fine if we are smart about building our other lines.

That's why the #1 RW spot either has to be dealt with in free agency (or trade), or we need to sign someone like Pahlssonn who can spell Laich so that Laich can join the top line.

I still want Knuble, though.

CapsWolverinesUSA 06-17-2009 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilwaukeesBestIce (Post 19952595)
McPhee should be like the eye of Sauron this offseason, hell bent on only one thing. But instead of getting the one ring to rule them all, it should be getting rid of Michael Nylander.

You can't ask the impossible. And that is impossible.

frasnap 06-17-2009 01:24 PM

Kip Miller?

edit: that was @ strung.

CapitalsCupFantasy 06-17-2009 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strungout (Post 19952644)
The thing I keep getting hung up on is the top line RW.

Who in the blue hell is going to play there?
I keep sticking Clark in there in line ups and such....but really...he can't be counted on to return to form. Flash isn't that guy. Laich is more valuable in other places. Semin needs to not be on the same line as Ovie....but maybe they go there if nothing else works.

Meh.

That's the biggest question IMO. Two very talented offensive guys lost in Koz/Feds. They have to bring in someone via trade IMO unless there's a decent FA who is cheapish. We need a skilled guy who can carry and protect the puck to establish possession in the offensive zone.

bottleCAPS 06-17-2009 01:36 PM

July 1st is rapidly approaching.

Although, not rapid enough for my liking.

strungout 06-17-2009 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA (Post 19952693)
I still want Knuble, though.

I'm there with you...but I'm just don't have a vibe on how Mafki is going into this free agency year with those looming Backstrom and Semin deals coming up. Knuble is going to want some term, I'd wager. Like 3 or 4 years at least. Is that a route Makfi wants to take? Is it a route that he can even take with the cap implications? does he bite the bullet for this season and next and go with a buy out on Theodore to create extra space? Does he somehow manage to get rid of Nylander? So many ways this could go.

Personally....I think he's sticking with the existing roster and filling with Bears...and I'm totally fine with that. In that scenario however....I have no idea who plays the first line RW.

Chimaera 06-17-2009 01:37 PM

I keep having this bad dream of Nylander playing on the top line. That seemed to be a go to option for Bruce at times when he was out of sorts on where to put the guy.

strungout 06-17-2009 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chimaera (Post 19952858)
I keep having this bad dream of Nylander playing on the top line. That seemed to be a go to option for Bruce at times when he was out of sorts on where to put the guy.

Well, I mean, at $4.875 million....he should be up there.

But yeah.

http://www.onfrozenblog.com/wp-conte...1/nylander.JPG

Backstrom #19 06-17-2009 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strungout (Post 19952644)
The thing I keep getting hung up on is the top line RW.

Who in the blue hell is going to play there?

I keep sticking Clark in there in line ups and such....but really...he can't be counted on to return to form. Flash isn't that guy. Laich is more valuable in other places. Semin needs to not be on the same line as Ovie....but maybe they go there if nothing else works.

Meh.

This may sound crazy, but what about Aucoin on the first line? He's not big and gritty but he's fast, works hard, and has a good skill set.

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Aucoin
Bourque-Nylander-Semin
Flash-Laich-Fehr
Steckel-Gordon-Bradley
Laing Clark

Green-xxxx
Alzner-Poti
Pothier-Erskine
Jurcina/Schultz(Only 1 of them)

Varlamov
Theodore

FORWARDS
Alexander Ovechkin $9,538,461
Michael Nylander $4,875,000
Alexander Semin $4,600,000
Chris Clark $2,633,333
Nicklas Backstrom $2,400,000
Brooks Laich $2,066,666
Matt Bradley $1,000,000
Eric Fehr $850,000
Boyd Gordon $850,000
Tomas Fleischmann $725,000
Dave Steckel $725,000
Chris Bourque $725,000
Quintin Laing $550,000
Keith Aucoin $487,500

DEFENSEMEN
Mike Green $5,250,000
Tom Poti $3,500,000
Brian Pothier $2,500,000
Karl Alzner $1,675,000
John Erskine $1,250,000
Jeff Schultz $875,000

GOALTENDERS
Jose Theodore $4,500,000
Simeon Varlamov $821,666

BUYOUTS
Ben Clymer $250,000

ROSTER SIZE 22
BONUS MONEY (4.1% of cap) $2,350,000
SALARY CAP $56,700,000
PAYROLL $52,647,626
CAP ROOM $4,052,374

Obviously I'm guessing on some of the numbers for Fehr, Bourque, Schultz, Gordon and Laing. I'd be happy with that team if we added a UFA defenceman for around 3.5-4 million.

CapitalsCupFantasy 06-17-2009 01:42 PM

Maybe Bourque gets thrown to the wolves on the top line....the kid should be able to clean up a lot of dirty rebounds with his skill.

I'm with you on Knuble...he's on my top 10 list as far as UFA...

strungout 06-17-2009 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 (Post 19952894)
This may sound crazy, but what about Aucoin on the first line? He's not big and gritty but he's fast, works hard, and has a good skill set.

Meh.

You're grasping at one of the same straws the rest of us are.

Someone in that RW spot needs to be CapitalsCup2010 pointed out....

Quote:

We need a skilled guy who can carry and protect the puck to establish possession in the offensive zone.
Not Aucoin. He's a setup guy. He's Backstrom light.

Bourque makes sense for a lot of reasons...except the size thing. But if they can't bring anyone in....maybe he does get the shot up there. I think he and Ovie would work very well together actually.

Ovie - Backstrom - Bourque
Flash - Nylander - Semin
Laich - Steckel - Bradley
Giroux - Aucoin/Gordo - Clark/Fehr

Edit: You know...I kinda like that.


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