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-   -   Hossa Signs with Chicago :( (Updated: Kopecky to Chicago too!) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=655049)

RedWingsNow* 06-26-2009 10:31 AM

Hossa Signs with Chicago :( (Updated: Kopecky to Chicago too!)
 
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....n_red_win.html

Marian's agent must be like WTF? Because $6M a year is a great deal, especially when you consider what Hossa turned down to play here. Wow.
Hossa's one-year stint in Detroit didn't get him a cup. And it looks like he won't be able to stay in Detroit, even for a significant hometown discount.
And who knows how much money it cost him? Many say the deals offered this year will be smaller.

CC Chiefs* 06-26-2009 10:35 AM

If he's not willing to take the 4m cap hit for 7-10 years then it's time to say goodbye. For 4m I wouldn't mind him staying but not for more then that.

RedWingsNow* 06-26-2009 10:37 AM

Anyone who even entertains the notion that a player of his stature would play for $4M a year is living in a dreamworld.

petesrw 06-26-2009 10:43 AM

I wonder if he would consider playing on another 1 year contract... this time for 4 million. "Look man, we don't have ANY cap space. Nick's biggie is expiring next year. We want you, you want us, but right now 6 is OUT OF THE QUESTION."

I can't see that happening though.

CC Chiefs* 06-26-2009 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 20064488)
Anyone who even entertains the notion that a player of his stature would play for $4M a year is living in a dreamworld.

It's a 4m Cap hit. He could make 8m next year and slowly go down over the 7-10 years. A guy (Hossa) 8 years from now won't be worth 4m either. So it's a over time average.

RedWingsNow* 06-26-2009 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yooper wings fan (Post 20064827)
It's a 4m Cap hit. He could make 8m next year and slowly go down over the 7-10 years. A guy (Hossa) 8 years from now won't be worth 4m either. So it's a over time average.

It doesn't matter. Look at the offers Hossa reportedly turned down last year. You think he's going to play for less than half of that?
Hossa is a star in the NHL. A $4M cap hit isn't going to get the job done.

CC Chiefs* 06-26-2009 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 20065018)
It doesn't matter. Look at the offers Hossa reportedly turned down last year. You think he's going to play for less than half of that?
Hossa is a star in the NHL. A $4M cap hit isn't going to get the job done.

Well then back to my 1st post. If he's not willing to take the 4m cap hit contract then he needs to go find greener grass.

Fugu 06-26-2009 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 20065018)
It doesn't matter. Look at the offers Hossa reportedly turned down last year. You think he's going to play for less than half of that?
Hossa is a star in the NHL. A $4M cap hit isn't going to get the job done.

It depends a bit on what he really wants. Are many teams, especially a team he'd WANT to play for, able to give him $6-7 MM+ for 8-9 years? Point is, it's not like the Wings really have that money, so it's not at all reflective of them trying to lowball anyone either. Several teams could offer $6-7 for 5 yrs, and then he'll be looking at a new contract - OR - the Wings pay him $6-7 MM or more with a front-loaded contract, and add on the 3-4 yrs at the end to get the cap hit down. He's a Wing for the rest of his days, regardless if he wants to play 5-6 more yrs or 10 yrs.

The only type of deal that blows the Wings out of the water is the type that the Oilers threw at him last year, but that is also a career commitment so he'd better be certain he really likes the new place. There are several Eastern teams that might do a lot to throw bucks at him, but it's not going to be the same environment he has here.

The reality is that the teams that are willing to spend don't have much more cap space than the Wings, or it's a team that isn't as attractive. Then there are the franchises that will not spend over the midpoint, or much above the cap floor no matter who is available. Sure, they might bring in the one star but he's not going to have much in depth or a sure-fire contention.

RedWingsNow* 06-26-2009 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 20065242)
It depends a bit on what he really wants.

Be reasonable.
Why didn't Zetterberg sign a $2M a year deal?

And I didn't suggest anyone tried to lowball him. The Red Wings are offering what they can afford.

It's just unreasonable for anyone to expect he'd sign for that.

CC Chiefs* 06-26-2009 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 20065370)
Be reasonable.
Why didn't Zetterberg sign a $2M a year deal?

And I didn't suggest anyone tried to lowball him. The Red Wings are offering what they can afford.

It's just unreasonable for anyone to expect he'd sign for that.

It's Fugu said, it all depends on what he wants? Say in Detroit for less $$$ and have a good chance to win or go somewhere else for big $$$ and finish 6-12 in the conference. The choice is his.

RedWingsNow* 06-26-2009 11:22 AM

Swooosh.

Burke's Evil Spirit 06-26-2009 11:22 AM

Why can't the Wings clear cap space? Holmstrom/Filppula/Hudler are nice players but I'd easily dump one or two of them if it meant room for Hossa.

Fugu 06-26-2009 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 20065370)
Be reasonable.
Why didn't Zetterberg sign a $2M a year deal?

And I didn't suggest anyone tried to lowball him. The Red Wings are offering what they can afford.

It's just unreasonable for anyone to expect he'd sign for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yooper wings fan (Post 20065453)
It's Fugu said, it all depends on what he wants? Say in Detroit for less $$$ and have a good chance to win or go somewhere else for big $$$ and finish 6-12 in the conference. The choice is his.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 20065492)
Swooosh.

Are you talking about a cap hit of $4 MM or actual pay of $4 MM? What I've read from Kenny is that he believes it would take something in the $6+ MM range for some years (let's say undefined at this point); and then the magic cap diminishing years added on at paltry but CBA-compliant figure, like $1 MM per year.

Kenny also has said he realizes he may need to move some things around..... to paraphrase.

Fugu 06-26-2009 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 20065370)
Be reasonable.
Why didn't Zetterberg sign a $2M a year deal?

And I didn't suggest anyone tried to lowball him. The Red Wings are offering what they can afford.

It's just unreasonable for anyone to expect he'd sign for that.

See above, but no one is suggesting an actual pay of $2 MM or $4 MM...

CC Chiefs* 06-26-2009 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 20066003)
Are you talking about a cap hit of $4 MM or actual pay of $4 MM? What I've read from Kenny is that he believes it would take something in the $6+ MM range for some years (let's say undefined at this point); and then the magic cap diminishing years added on at paltry but CBA-compliant figure, like $1 MM per year.

Kenny also has said he realizes he may need to move some things around..... to paraphrase.

My idea was for a 4m cap hit and pay him 8m to start and go down from there.

Winger98 06-26-2009 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit (Post 20065508)
Why can't the Wings clear cap space? Holmstrom/Filppula/Hudler are nice players but I'd easily dump one or two of them if it meant room for Hossa.

The problem has been that Hudler is quite likely gone regardless (either through an offer sheet or trade) and then we'd have to move Flip or Homer just to sign Hossa. Then we'd be up tight against the cap with just ten forwards. To sign Hossa for a $6m cap hit, we'd have to sacrifice significant depth. Considering we won a cup w/o Hossa, it makes it easier to look at and say we'd rather have three "B" quality guys rather than one "A" quality guy.


---


At $6m I'd let him walk regardless. He does't fit at that price and I'm not sold on his presence offsetting the depth we'd lose to sign him - as well as the cap flexibility to call-up/trade for other players. It was a good try this past season, but it's time to move on.

Nicklas Lidstrom 06-26-2009 01:17 PM

We don't need Hossa. What we need to do is not operate so close to the cap, like we had to do this year because of Hossa.

SirKillalot 06-26-2009 01:25 PM

No more than 4.8 or so. And, not a 10 year deal. 5-6 years.

Filppula 06-26-2009 01:28 PM

Bye Hossa.

RedWingsNow* 06-26-2009 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 20066027)
See above, but no one is suggesting an actual pay of $2 MM or $4 MM...

No. People are suggesting Johan Franzen contract for a Zetterberg type talent.

I think about a $5.5 M cap hit would get Hossa in Detroit, and that it would be a nice discount.

Can Detroit afford that? I don't think so.

Getting Hossa to sign a $4M cap hit deal would be great. But it's not even close to being realistic, even if it was an eight or nine year deal

doublejack 06-26-2009 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winger98 (Post 20068006)
The problem has been that Hudler is quite likely gone regardless (either through an offer sheet or trade) and then we'd have to move Flip or Homer just to sign Hossa. Then we'd be up tight against the cap with just ten forwards. To sign Hossa for a $6m cap hit, we'd have to sacrifice significant depth. Considering we won a cup w/o Hossa, it makes it easier to look at and say we'd rather have three "B" quality guys rather than one "A" quality guy.


---


At $6m I'd let him walk regardless. He does't fit at that price and I'm not sold on his presence offsetting the depth we'd lose to sign him - as well as the cap flexibility to call-up/trade for other players. It was a good try this past season, but it's time to move on.

This is pretty much how I view it. I think it is worth signing Hossa for about $5M or a little less on an 8-10 year contract, but above that it costs too much in the way of depth.

Figure that regardless of what happens with Hossa, Hudler is a goner. Samuelsson is also out of the picture. We pencil Leino and Helm into those two spots, and that's a preliminary roster. If we do re-sign Hossa, we have to subtract salary to make room. That probably means one of Homer or Filppula get moved (or maybe Homer retires). If Hossa costs closer to $5M then we need to do some additional tweaking. Maybe Draper gets traded. Maybe it is Lilja. Or maybe we play salary games by keeping players on LTIR (Rafalski with his ruptured disc is a good candidate, as is Lilja but he only makes enough to cover a small salary plaer) until the numbers work out.

Any way you analyze the numbers, though, Hossa becomes impossible to keep at a $6M per season hit. Realistically he's worth that kind of money, but we just don't have the ability to absorb the hit without drastically reworking the roster.

Schroedingers Cat 06-26-2009 02:15 PM

I don't want Hossa back for any price.

If Franzen plays 80+ games this season he scores 40. We don't need a 6 million dollar player who will score 40 goals from October-March and 4 goals from April-June.

caseygraves 06-26-2009 02:28 PM

Looks to me like we would have to move someone even if we sign Hossa to a 4 million cap hit. or am i missing something here?

nik jr 06-26-2009 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caseygraves (Post 20069802)
Looks to me like we would have to move someone even if we sign Hossa to a 4 million cap hit. or am i missing something here?

that is right.

over 57M for 20 players even with hossa at 4M.

BadHammy* 06-26-2009 02:32 PM

Hossa isn't necessary if you guys can keep everyone else around. However, with that said, I think you'll have to trade one of your other forwards anyway.


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