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-   -   Does this "strongman" workout look good? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=661532)

koh19 07-08-2009 04:40 PM

Does this "strongman" workout look good?
 
I'm looking to create my own strongman type workout for hockey conditioning. I train 3-4 times a week and need something to do on off days (mind you, I do get enough rest). I heard these workouts are very good for developing core and back strength, essential for hockey players.


I was thinking of combining various exercises with logs, tires, sledgehammer....

So here's what I've come up with so far:

- uphill tire flips, my tire ain't that heavy so 5x75meters
- military presses with log, series of 10-15 reps
- tire drags, quick bursts. Something like 5x10 meters
- carrying a heavy log, just walking fast like they do in competitions. Not sure what this is for though, just stamina I guess
- hitting a tire with a a sledgehammer

What do you guys think? What can I change? Improve? Do you guys have any idea how many reps/series I should do of each? I was thinking doing the whole circuit 3 times. Also, in what order should I do them? I'm guessing I should alternate lower and upper body.

thanks

noobman 07-08-2009 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 20348793)
I'm looking to create my own strongman type workout for hockey conditioning. I train 3-4 times a week and need something to do on off days (mind you, I do get enough rest). I heard these workouts are very good for developing core and back strength, essential for hockey players.


I was thinking of combining various exercises with logs, tires, sledgehammer....

So here's what I've come up with so far:

- uphill tire flips, my tire ain't that heavy so 5x75meters
- military presses with log, series of 10-15 reps
- tire drags, quick bursts. Something like 5x10 meters
- carrying a heavy log, just walking fast like they do in competitions. Not sure what this is for though, just stamina I guess
- hitting a tire with a sledgehammer

What do you guys think? What can I change? Improve? Do you guys have any idea how many reps/series I should do of each? I was thinking doing the whole circuit 3 times. Also, in what order should I do them? I'm guessing I should alternate lower and upper body.

thanks

I think you've seen Rocky IV a few too many times, to be honest :laugh:

This sounds like a decent program, but I don't understand why you'd want to embark on something like this. Tire drags are alright (running parachutes are good too) and tire flips uphill are good with a heavy tire... but this all looks like unregulated and inefficient exercise for the sake of looking macho :shakehead

koh19 07-08-2009 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobman (Post 20350201)
I think you've seen Rocky IV a few too many times, to be honest :laugh:

This sounds like a decent program, but I don't understand why you'd want to embark on something like this. Tire drags are alright (running parachutes are good too) and tire flips uphill are good with a heavy tire... but this all looks like unregulated and inefficient exercise for the sake of looking macho :shakehead

Look, it's just that I heard and read that these types of exercises are great for the core, which is the part of the body hockey players need to concentrate on.

As for the workout itself, you're saying I've seen Rocky IV a few too many times. First of all, I've never seen it and secondly, I'm not doing this to look macho but to improve.

You're saying the tire drags/flips are ok. Why wouldn't military presses be? Almost every single athlete in the world performs these. It's a great shoulder/trap/delts exercise. As for carrying a heavy load while walking quickly, ok that might be a little too much but the sledgehammer, it's great for both upperbody and core strength.

Once again, my goal isn't to be macho (nobody will be watching me) but to improve so it'll be nice if you could tell me why these are "unregulated and inefficient exercises for the sake of looking macho"?

Btw, I'm not mad. I just would like you to be a bit more precise.

luciousharris 07-08-2009 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 20350372)
Look, it's just that I heard and read that these types of exercises are great for the core, which is the part of the body hockey players need to concentrate on.

As for the workout itself, you're saying I've seen Rocky IV a few too many times. First of all, I've never seen it and secondly, I'm not doing this to look macho but to improve.

You're saying the tire drags/flips are ok. Why wouldn't military presses be? Almost every single athlete in the world performs these. It's a great shoulder/trap/delts exercise. As for carrying a heavy load while walking quickly, ok that might be a little too much but the sledgehammer, it's great for both upperbody and core strength.

Once again, my goal isn't to be macho (nobody will be watching me) but to improve so it'll be nice if you could tell me why these are "unregulated and inefficient exercises for the sake of looking macho"?

Btw, I'm not mad. I just would like you to be a bit more precise.

I just did a quick google search on strongman training. I gues you are specifically looking for core, i just did a random search. here is a link to a site specifically for Strongman training.

http://www.defrancotraining.com/arti...-athletes.html

Like I said I did a google search of, Strongman training and there are tons of sites dedicated to that sort of training. I myself tried of that training last summer. I think it helped a bit for hockey.

Little Nilan 07-08-2009 06:53 PM

They're good exercises but why don't you just try to get one of the many very, very efficient functional exercise programs out there?

You can do things like this as a supplement to your training.

BadHammy* 07-08-2009 07:10 PM

To get better at hockey, play more hockey. Several NHL'ers have said that was their key to success...

FLYLine27 07-08-2009 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 20348793)
I'm looking to create my own strongman type workout for hockey conditioning. I train 3-4 times a week and need something to do on off days (mind you, I do get enough rest). I heard these workouts are very good for developing core and back strength, essential for hockey players.


I was thinking of combining various exercises with logs, tires, sledgehammer....

So here's what I've come up with so far:

- uphill tire flips, my tire ain't that heavy so 5x75meters
- military presses with log, series of 10-15 reps
- tire drags, quick bursts. Something like 5x10 meters
- carrying a heavy log, just walking fast like they do in competitions. Not sure what this is for though, just stamina I guess
- hitting a tire with a a sledgehammer

What do you guys think? What can I change? Improve? Do you guys have any idea how many reps/series I should do of each? I was thinking doing the whole circuit 3 times. Also, in what order should I do them? I'm guessing I should alternate lower and upper body.

thanks

Your going to military press a log?

If your going to military press logs you find lying around the woods then I think really think you need to read up on a proper workout.

The whole thing sounds pretty dumb to be honest. Just hit the weight room with a good routine. Carrying bug infested logs around and pressing logs is just looking for trouble. We aren't in the cave man era anymore.

BadHammy* 07-09-2009 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYLine24 (Post 20351039)
Your going to military press a log?

If your going to military press logs you find lying around the woods then I think really think you need to read up on a proper workout.

The whole thing sounds pretty dumb to be honest. Just hit the weight room with a good routine. Carrying bug infested logs around and pressing logs is just looking for trouble. We aren't in the cave man era anymore.

Tee hee. Hockey specific workouts need to focus on the legs, glutes/quads the most, lower and middle back. If you have a lot of time, work on the shoulders, forearms and calves too. Chest is arguably least important for hockey.

koh19 07-09-2009 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYLine24 (Post 20351039)
Your going to military press a log?

If your going to military press logs you find lying around the woods then I think really think you need to read up on a proper workout.

The whole thing sounds pretty dumb to be honest. Just hit the weight room with a good routine. Carrying bug infested logs around and pressing logs is just looking for trouble. We aren't in the cave man era anymore.

no, no. It's a nicely cut log that's perfectly shaped.

Ciccarelli 07-09-2009 07:21 AM

How bout hit da gym? Oh yeah, and less talking more working, you know what I mean? You're not getting any stronger by sitting there on your computer. No pain no gain.

WhipNash27 07-09-2009 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donGjohnson (Post 20355749)
Tee hee. Hockey specific workouts need to focus on the legs, glutes/quads the most, lower and middle back. If you have a lot of time, work on the shoulders, forearms and calves too. Chest is arguably least important for hockey.

I'd say just do everything. Let's be honest, I doubt we're all staying indoors all year playing hockey all day and night unless someone here has a serious chance of going pro. Just do everything. Sure chest isn't that important for hockey, but you also want to look good if you're going to spend that much time in the gym, right? I mean having strong legs looks good and all, but I don't think women want a guy with huge legs and muscleless chest & arms.

I personally work out each muscle group once a week (3 weight training workouts) and reserve any other time that I want to exercise to cardio/hockey. I know most people either do one of the following:

1. Biceps/Back (Rows, Lats, etc workout both of these muscles)
2. Triceps/Chest (Bench press does both of these)
3. Legs/Shoulders/Other Stuff (You use your shoulders a lot in heavier benches, so I prefer to do them when I'm not shot. This is also a good time to do forearms, rotator cuffs, etc.)

or

1. Biceps/Triceps
2. Chest/Back
3. Legs/Shoulders/Other Stuff

Obviously people do other things, but to me that's the most balanced approach. There's no reason to do Squats 2 or 3 times a week.

Giroux tha Damaja 07-09-2009 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 (Post 20357325)
Obviously people do other things, but to me that's the most balanced approach. There's no reason to do Squats 2 or 3 times a week.

100% agreed!:scared: If you're doing weighted squats (deep ass-to-heel squats) and putting on some leg muscle for hockey, that is most likely an off season thing. I don't know how you could do them 3 times a week (whenever I do squats it takes me three days to recover, and the first two I can't sit down or stand up with out help).


It sounds like you just want to do some compound exercises that are going to build total body strength.

If you're working out, and aren't worried about nice round beach muscles, you really don't need to be doing curls and **** to target small muscle groups IMO. It sounds like you want to keep it simple and build a nice, non sport-specific athletic base (good core strength and aerobic capacity are big in any sport), I would build around these exercises...

Intervals/ Wind Sprints - A lot of guys do wind sprints where they sprint for half a minute, then they're jogging at a really easy pace for half a minute, then sprint. I think that's half-assed, and if you're not running fairly quick during your recovery time, you're cheating yourself out of bigger improvements in anaerobic capacity and active recovery. You probably shouldn't really be able to do wind sprints for much more than a mile if you're really working hard. When I do them I usually run about a half mile to get warmed up, then start my stopwatch.

I run at the pace I would run if I were running a two mile race (~7 minute mile pace, yours may vary). I run that for about a minute, then for 30 seconds I sprint as hard as I can. Then I go back to my two mile pace. Rinse repeat. The key is not to take it too easy when you're not sprinting, you should still be hustling. By the time I am on my 7th or 8th sprint, I feel B-E-A-T.

Burpees - You sound like you would know what they are, but if not you can google them. If you're already in okay shape you can do a push up at the bottom. If you're in good shape you can do a plyometric push up and clap in the air (catch your weight on the way down to load chest and tri's, then explode up and clap hands at top of push up). I have a friend who is in really superb shape and he does his burpees underneath a pull up bar. He does a plyo- push up at the bottom, and jumps up and grabs the bar and does a pull up at the top.

Turkish get ups - You should be able to find these on google too if you aren't familiar with them. If they get too easy some guys put a heavy bag on a shoulder when they're doing it, other guys grab a kettle bell and hold that in the air in their free hand. These are great for core strength (I find they're a little tough on my knees, oddly).

The wind sprints, plus the two exercises above with some box jumps and mountain climbers mixed into an circuit alone would probably yield some decent strength results and pretty good conditioning. I also like "russian lifts" (a kettle bell exercise) and crunches and sit ups on a decline bench (I like to hold a plate to my chest or add weight for these to keep the reps down to around 20, the other circuit stuff will build core endurance. I do these mostly for strength gains).

As far as lifting goes, squats, clean and jerks, and dead lifts all hit the core and a ton of other groups. All these exercises (the lifts and the circuit stuff) build a lot of strength. They might not add a ton of mass but they get you conditioned to moving a lot of weight with your whole body (as opposed to smaller focused lifts). As my buddies say, you get "sneaky strong", where you're one of those guys who is way stronger than he looks and plays way bigger than he is.

Disclaimer: I am not a personal trainer, but those are just some of the simple but effective exercises I have the most luck with. Good luck!

noobman 07-09-2009 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 20350372)
Look, it's just that I heard and read that these types of exercises are great for the core, which is the part of the body hockey players need to concentrate on.

As for the workout itself, you're saying I've seen Rocky IV a few too many times. First of all, I've never seen it and secondly, I'm not doing this to look macho but to improve.

You're saying the tire drags/flips are ok. Why wouldn't military presses be? Almost every single athlete in the world performs these. It's a great shoulder/trap/delts exercise. As for carrying a heavy load while walking quickly, ok that might be a little too much but the sledgehammer, it's great for both upperbody and core strength.

Once again, my goal isn't to be macho (nobody will be watching me) but to improve so it'll be nice if you could tell me why these are "unregulated and inefficient exercises for the sake of looking macho"?

Btw, I'm not mad. I just would like you to be a bit more precise.

Alright, I'll start from the top:

1) Go watch Rocky IV. There's this crazy training montage where Rocky is doing strongman stuff in Alaska, while Ivan Drago (Russian) is working out with machines in this high-tech facility (and taking steroids). It'll get you pumped.

2) When you say your core, are you talking about your abdominals or your "core muscles" (the large groups... chest, legs, back, shoulders?). Abdominal training is important for a hockey player, as a strong core is necessary for maintaining balance and changing direction. Your leg muscles should be your primary focus though. They're getting some neglect in your program.

3) A lot of beginners overarch their backs or pull their shoulder blades at a strange incline while doing the military press. A log may not have evenly distributed weight, and will be hard to grip. It's do-able and it's a great exercise, but you're putting yourself at risk by using a log that doesn't have grips for your hands. You're better off doing an exercise with proper form using lower reps/weight than you are by pumping out a bunch of sloppy reps. DO NOT military press a log unless you can cut some hand grips into it and ensure that it's balanced.

4) If you want to run with a log on your shoulder be my guest, but expect a lot of pain in your shoulders and possibly your knees. A log is awkwardly sized for carrying while running, so you might even have to sling it on one shoulder and switch over. A weighted vest

With that being said... your program is pretty good as a general workout (though it's pretty top heavy) but it has the pitfall of being inefficient. It's a classic example of working hard, not smart. With that being said, there are certainly ways to work out without the need to lift weights at the gym. To me, a program like the one you've described is inefficent, but it's FUN. I love doing these kinds of things as opposed to lifting weights, which is actually quite boring. Do this if you want a way to get in better shape and improve your game by ways of being more fit, but if getting better at hockey is your #1 goal then I'd have to recommend something more specific.



I didn't really mean to patronize with the first post... sorry if I came across as a bit of a jerk.

BaconStrips 07-09-2009 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am The Mush (Post 20357865)
100% agreed!:scared: If you're doing weighted squats (deep ass-to-heel squats) and putting on some leg muscle for hockey, that is most likely an off season thing. I don't know how you could do them 3 times a week (whenever I do squats it takes me three days to recover, and the first two I can't sit down or stand up with out help).

Bill Stars 5x5 can be done with squats 3 times a week. Many basic to intermediate 5x5 templates incorporate squats in a linear progression. Of course, once you get to a certain amount (say double bodyweight) squatting 3x a week becomes redundant and dangerous.

I am currently doing a 5x5 that looks like this

Monday:
Squat/Bench/Row all 5x5.
First four sets working up to the last which is a near max in 10% to 15% incriments.

Wednesday
Squat/Standing Military press/Deadlift.
All 4x5. Squat is a warmup with 2 light sets and 2 sets at approx 60/70% if Monday's final set.

MP and Deads are done like Monday.

Friday:
Squat/Bench/Row. 4 warmup sets x5. A fifth set x3 for a new max (2.5% to 5% of monday's max.) - this numer will be done for 5 on monday of the following week. Finished with a set of 8 at 60-70% of what the set of 3 was.

This system has increased my Squat from 225 to 265 (for 5), my Deads from 235 (for 5) to 305 (for 5), and my bench from 175 to 215 (for 5) in 9 weeks.

koh19 07-09-2009 11:18 AM

I know what you guys are getting at but like I said, this workout would be done once, maybe twice a week max. It's complimentary.

The rest of the time I actually follow a solid hockey workout program with my team; we hit the gym (we have a strict program that changes every 2-3 weeks), do plyometrics (lots of jumps, lunges, one leg jumps), do lots of core/ab exercices (planks, windshield, crossover crunches, etc....) and play floorball a lot. We often do 60 minutes of floorball; that kills you, it's hardcore, your legs get one hell of a workout and your lungs are burning.

I agree that it's an awesome workout, it's great fun (no homo) and would be done to improve my overall fitness and get stronger.

Again, this workout would be done 1-2/week. Is that still ok?

Giroux tha Damaja 07-09-2009 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicBomb (Post 20358193)
Bill Stars 5x5 can be done with squats 3 times a week.

This system has increased my Squat from 225 to 265 (for 5), my Deads from 235 (for 5) to 305 (for 5), and my bench from 175 to 215 (for 5) in 9 weeks.

That's a pretty good set of excersizes to work everything hard in a quick workout, I bet you're in and out of the gym quicker than a lot of guys who aren't getting those kinds of results (good for you man!).

I was probably having a harder time recovering because when I did squats (once a week when I did them) it was on a "leg day". Where I was doing 4 sets of 4 or 5 exercises, with the last two sets of each exercise being to failure. On top of that I was running 15~18 miles a week, which isn't too bad in itself, but I was doing it 3 miles a day at race pace every day (so essentially running five 5kilometer races weekly:shakehead), then the leg work out on one of the days off from running. Needless to say I was going into the leg work outs pre-fatigued, it was not very smart at all. It was in hindsight probably far more to blame for my long recovery times than squats alone. The results were pretty decent though.

Now all I do for legs is a lot of running. I haven't done a proper squat in almost a year, but I'm naturally a bottom heavy guy and my legs respond to training the easiest, so I spend more time on upper body (plus the running lengthens the leg muscles so I don't look super boxy, as well as being more in line with my needs).

Giroux tha Damaja 07-09-2009 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 20358817)
Again, this workout would be done 1-2/week. Is that still ok?

I don't see how any of what you have up there could hurt, but it seems like you'd be spending a lot of time working out. If its fun and something you want to do why not? Is it possible to increase the intensity of what you personally are doing when you work out with your team?

When it comes to improving athletic performance Quality of exercises > Quantity of time exercising, IMO. If you are working out regularly and still feel like it is not enough, it doesn't sound to me like you need more work, it sounds like maybe you could use more intense work. It's tough to say though, everyone is different and I don't know what you are doing now.

luciousharris 07-09-2009 12:02 PM

The way I look at trining for a sport is this, every sport requeires a certain amount of endurance and exlposivness.
So for hockey I break my offseason up for three months. So for hockey for about a month I would do endurance work. Light weights, more reps. Then some time in the day you do your running. Run,walk jog sprint for about an 30-40 min.

Then the next month I would do speed or explosive workouts. With the weights 6-8 reps about a 45-1 min of rest. And then for dryland you do plyometric and sprint work. All out sprints for about 45 sec. 1:30 of rest.

And when training camp is around the corner I get my body used to what it is going to go through during the season. If I am going to have two days of practices then a game then I would do two days of endurance workouts and then one day of speed work. And so on for the rest of the week.

The idea is to get your legs used to what it is going to go throught for the season. The strongman workouts are good and skating is good, but you have to be specific. You cannot create a world class marathon runner by training like a sprinter. And vise versa.
Hockey has it's own requierments of speed and endurance and you have to have a program that incorporates both. Even when you skate, playing pick up hockey and wind sprints aren't going to do much. Again you need a program where you will get the right amount of speed and endurance work over the course of time.

koh19 07-09-2009 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am The Mush (Post 20359158)
I don't see how any of what you have up there could hurt, but it seems like you'd be spending a lot of time working out. If its fun and something you want to do why not? Is it possible to increase the intensity of what you personally are doing when you work out with your team?

When it comes to improving athletic performance Quality of exercises > Quantity of time exercising, IMO. If you are working out regularly and still feel like it is not enough, it doesn't sound to me like you need more work, it sounds like maybe you could use more intense work. It's tough to say though, everyone is different and I don't know what you are doing now.

well, I do give 100% when I train with the team but I recover quite quickly compared to the rest of them. (They all have full time jobs, physical jobs (mechanic, carpenter,...) which isn't ideal if you still have a workout to do at night... I don't) so can get enough sleep and eat healthy all day. Really, I very rarely need 2 days to recover from a workout so if I can perform this workout once a week, I think it would be ok. You see, currently, I'm almost dedicating 100% to hockey training.

Giroux tha Damaja 07-09-2009 12:18 PM

Have you thought about adding a weighted vest for some of the plyometric stuff and other body weight based exercise? Might up the difficulty adn allow you to still train right next to the team? Just a thought.

koh19 07-09-2009 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am The Mush (Post 20359692)
Have you thought about adding a weighted vest for some of the plyometric stuff and other body weight based exercise? Might up the difficulty adn allow you to still train right next to the team? Just a thought.

I can do that, yeah.

luciousharris 07-09-2009 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am The Mush (Post 20359692)
Have you thought about adding a weighted vest for some of the plyometric stuff and other body weight based exercise? Might up the difficulty adn allow you to still train right next to the team? Just a thought.

:nod: http://www.g2fitnessproducts.com/ind...OD&ProdID=5544

Gunnar Stahl 30 07-09-2009 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 (Post 20357325)
I'd say just do everything. Let's be honest, I doubt we're all staying indoors all year playing hockey all day and night unless someone here has a serious chance of going pro. Just do everything. Sure chest isn't that important for hockey, but you also want to look good if you're going to spend that much time in the gym, right? I mean having strong legs looks good and all, but I don't think women want a guy with huge legs and muscleless chest & arms.

I personally work out each muscle group once a week (3 weight training workouts) and reserve any other time that I want to exercise to cardio/hockey. I know most people either do one of the following:

1. Biceps/Back (Rows, Lats, etc workout both of these muscles)
2. Triceps/Chest (Bench press does both of these)
3. Legs/Shoulders/Other Stuff (You use your shoulders a lot in heavier benches, so I prefer to do them when I'm not shot. This is also a good time to do forearms, rotator cuffs, etc.)

or

1. Biceps/Triceps
2. Chest/Back
3. Legs/Shoulders/Other Stuff

Obviously people do other things, but to me that's the most balanced approach. There's no reason to do Squats 2 or 3 times a week.

i squat twice a week

what i do is

lower body(squats in there)
uppper body
lower body(squats in there)
upper body

its a 4 day rotational workout that i feel is most efficient because the same muscles twice a week and i only have to go to the gym 3 times a week

GuitarAwesome 07-09-2009 04:31 PM

Am I the only one who thinks that smashing something with a sludgehammer as hard as you can is a TERRIBLE idea? It's a great way to dislocate the crap out of your shoulders.

Giroux tha Damaja 07-09-2009 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by major league (Post 20362585)

Thats 230 bucks! Wal mart sells them for like ~50.


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