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-   -   Race for Ovechkin: Draft Draw on April 6 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=66346)

KING 03-30-2004 04:30 PM

Race for Ovechkin: Draft Draw on April 6
 
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...33&hubName=nhl

Fletch 03-30-2004 04:34 PM

It's gonna be tough...
 
catching PHX..even though they're only 1 point ahead for that 5th spot, they're looking like tough competitors and seem reluctant to giving it up.

Edge 03-30-2004 05:09 PM

Doan and company dont even look they are trying....at all.

Fletch 03-30-2004 05:20 PM

Are you suggesting...
 
they're tanking in order to get that #5 spot? Shame on you Edge. Not a team in which TGO is invoved.

Larry Melnyk 03-30-2004 05:32 PM

This Saturday when Chi is @ PHX and the Rangers are @ The Craps should be soemthing out of the Theatre of the Absurd..Assuming that all 4 teams lose until then (which isn't a stretch), the Rangers will be tanking because they want to "catch" PHX and PHX will tank because they don't want the Rangers to catch them...But at the same time, Washington might be tanking because they want to get or stay "ahead" of Pittsburg and Chicago will be tanking to prevent Columbus from catching them.....Ah, life in the cellar of the NHL....

Fletch 03-30-2004 05:38 PM

That, Larry, is hilarious...
 
great insight...Can you imagine the pitiful play out there? But, these are the Rangers, and we know them well. They couldn't even win a race for the bottom. So this is how it could very well play out: a tie tonight, a win tomorrow, and win against Washington, and a loss to end the season. Finish, #6 overall (if you look at the standings on your head), and Renney gets a pat on the back because of the great job he did in such a tough situation and is named head coach for next season. The only thing that can help this team is if PHX starts winning, including winning its game-in-hand.

Sorry, this is the Rangers, and they have no hope.

XX 03-30-2004 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
they're tanking in order to get that #5 spot? Shame on you Edge. Not a team in which TGO is invoved.

Yeah, were tanking it next year for Crosby :D

Larry Melnyk 03-30-2004 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
great insight...Can you imagine the pitiful play out there? But, these are the Rangers, and we know them well. They couldn't even win a race for the bottom. So this is how it could very well play out: a tie tonight, a win tomorrow, and win against Washington, and a loss to end the season. Finish, #6 overall (if you look at the standings on your head), and Renney gets a pat on the back because of the great job he did in such a tough situation and is named head coach for next season. The only thing that can help this team is if PHX starts winning, including winning its game-in-hand.

Sorry, this is the Rangers, and they have no hope.

Ah, the fly in this ointment is that I just checked and Pitt and Washington are playing each other tonight but, still, it could be very ugly but interesting in a train-wreck fashion on Saturday.....

And while I can handle the #6, Renney needs to have his arse canned the second the season is over...

Edge 03-30-2004 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
they're tanking in order to get that #5 spot? Shame on you Edge. Not a team in which TGO is invoved.


Not at all, simply saying that the team isn't trying. To me that is kind of disturbing if I were a phoenix fan.

Not that the rangers are a good example but you see some kids giving it a shot, Phoenix just looks like they are totally disinterested.

Theoren Fan 03-30-2004 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
And while I can handle the #6, Renney needs to have his arse canned the second the season is over...

:speechles

Don't really understand why we need to "can" Renney, he's probably the first guy here in the coaching staff in a long time that at least has abit of a clue. Not to mention the fact that he's going to the World Championships to assist Joe Quinnville coach team Canada.

I do think though that Renney's more of an assistant coach then he ever will be a head coach. If Renney works well with Quinnville, unless team Canada really blows it bad, I wouldn't mind seeing a Ranger coaching staff of Quinnville with Renney back in an assisting role. Would probably make up one of the best coaching staff's we've had (not saying much), but also one of the best we could possibly provide in any case.

in the hall 03-30-2004 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theo Fan
:speechles

Don't really understand why we need to "can" Renney, he's probably the first guy here in the coaching staff in a long time that at least has abit of a clue. Not to mention the fact that he's going to the World Championships to assist Joe Quinnville coach team Canada.

I do think though that Renney's more of an assistant coach then he ever will be a head coach. If Renney works well with Quinnville, unless team Canada really blows it bad, I wouldn't mind seeing a Ranger coaching staff of Quinnville with Renney back in an assisting role. Would probably make up one of the best coaching staff's we've had (not saying much), but also one of the best we could possibly provide in any case.

i agree, in addition to that, renney is probably one of the biggest reasons we are rebuilding now and have been able to be successfull thusfar with our draft picks under him...

Kodiak 03-30-2004 06:51 PM

I think Renney gets kicked back upstairs after this season. He's a good front office guy, but I don't think he'll make a good coach. Put him upstairs where he and Maloney can handle the development of prospects while Sather makes trades and eats his ice cream.

Fletch 03-30-2004 07:09 PM

I think I forgot...
 
to mention I was sarcastic, Edge...and I agree...

As for Renney...what kind of clue does Renney have? He's doind exactly what Ron Low would be doing in the same situation. At least Low gave Manny a chance, and Kloucek a chance, and Purinton a chance. Here we've still seen Jagr with Holik, Hlavac with 20+ minutes of ice time, Murray scoring and then on a fourth line energy line, etc., etc., etc. And great system he installed by the way...great PK and great PP...

NYR469 03-30-2004 10:11 PM

interesting tidbit on the draft lottery...

the draft lottery has been held the last 9 years and during those 9 years the team that finished last overall has one the lottery only 2 times (22.2%) and teams finishing 6-14 have won the lottery 2 times, giving the team with the worst record the #1 pick by default...

so the team with the worst record has gotten the #1 pick as a result of no one in the top 5 winning the lottery just as many times as they have won the lottery...

and 5 of the 9 years a team other than the team with the worst record got the #1 pick

so i don't think anyone can say that finishing 5th gives us 'only' an 8.1% chance

Quote:

1995 - Los Angeles ... Moved from 7th to 3rd ... selected Aki Berg
1996 - Ottawa ... Retained 1st selection ... selected Chris Phillips
1997 - Boston ... Retained 1st selection ... selected Joe Thornton
1998 - Tampa Bay ... Moved from 3rd to 1st via trades ... selected Vincent Lecavalier
1999 - Chicago ... Moved from 8th to 4th ... traded pick
2000 - NY Islanders ... Moved from 5th to 1st ... selected Rick DiPietro
2001 - Atlanta ... Moved from 3rd to 1st ... selected Ilya Kovalchuk
2002 - Florida ... Moved from 3rd to 1st ... traded pick
2003 - Florida ... Moved from 4th to 1st ... traded pick

NYR2 03-30-2004 10:28 PM

We HAVE to get to #5. This is STRESSING ME OUT. :joker:

True Blue 03-31-2004 07:59 AM

Agreed, Fletch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
As for Renney...what kind of clue does Renney have? He's doind exactly what Ron Low would be doing in the same situation. At least Low gave Manny a chance, and Kloucek a chance, and Purinton a chance. Here we've still seen Jagr with Holik, Hlavac with 20+ minutes of ice time, Murray scoring and then on a fourth line energy line, etc., etc., etc. And great system he installed by the way...great PK and great PP...

Renney is not a good coach. He wasn't in Vancouver, and he isn't here. For all the talk of how he is an X's & O's guy and a complete systems coach, his "system" has been an umitigated disaster. His "system" has resulted in the worst special teams in the NHL in recent memory. His insistence on playing Hlavac w/ Jagr for 20 minutes is assinine. His insistance of using Holik as a top line center is ridiculous. All the "too many men on the ice" penalties are a reflection of him. He is no different than Jackass.

Forechecker 03-31-2004 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR469
interesting tidbit on the draft lottery...

the draft lottery has been held the last 9 years and during those 9 years the team that finished last overall has one the lottery only 2 times (22.2%) and teams finishing 6-14 have won the lottery 2 times, giving the team with the worst record the #1 pick by default...

so the team with the worst record has gotten the #1 pick as a result of no one in the top 5 winning the lottery just as many times as they have won the lottery...

and 5 of the 9 years a team other than the team with the worst record got the #1 pick

so i don't think anyone can say that finishing 5th gives us 'only' an 8.1% chance

Actually, according the NHL, the Isles moved from 4th to 1st the year they picked DiPietro.

NYR469 03-31-2004 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forechecker
Actually, according the NHL, the Isles moved from 4th to 1st the year they picked DiPietro.

that was copied directly from the press release on newyorkrangers.com...

and the isles had the 5th pick because the isles had the 3rd worst record (they had 58 points, tb had 54 points and atlanta had 39 points)...

minnesota & columbus were expansion teams that year and get inserted at #2 & #3, so that bumped the isles down to #5

Forechecker 03-31-2004 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR469
that was copied directly from the press release on newyorkrangers.com...

and the isles had the 5th pick because the isles had the 3rd worst record (they had 58 points, tb had 54 points and atlanta had 39 points)...

minnesota & columbus were expansion teams that year and get inserted at #2 & #3, so that bumped the isles down to #5

My bad, you're right! :bow:

Park #2 03-31-2004 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
I think Renney gets kicked back upstairs after this season. He's a good front office guy, but I don't think he'll make a good coach. Put him upstairs where he and Maloney can handle the development of prospects while Sather makes trades and eats his ice cream.

I would think that Renney might go upstairs as well.... And while I don't really think Maloney would make a great GM, I guess he's on that track when/if Slats leaves.

Park #2 03-31-2004 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
Renney is not a good coach. He wasn't in Vancouver, and he isn't here. For all the talk of how he is an X's & O's guy and a complete systems coach, his "system" has been an umitigated disaster. His "system" has resulted in the worst special teams in the NHL in recent memory. His insistence on playing Hlavac w/ Jagr for 20 minutes is assinine. His insistance of using Holik as a top line center is ridiculous. All the "too many men on the ice" penalties are a reflection of him. He is no different than Jackass.


Well, come on - the system is only as good as the players within it (and more specifically the players willingness to play within it). After the deadline, all of the new players are no going to be familiar with any system, so the NYR basically went from a team of players refusing to play within a system to a team not knowing a system.

The bottom line is that on this team, Holik is the top line center. Should he be? YES on this team. I mean, you can't make him a 2nd or a 3rd when there are no other options. The NYR 3rd and 4th centers are waiver wire players, and their 2nd right now is a young player that hasn't developed well (while Messier is out).

Kodiak 03-31-2004 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Park #2
I would think that Renney might go upstairs as well.... And while I don't really think Maloney would make a great GM, I guess he's on that track when/if Slats leaves.

I thought the same thing when Smith got canned. When/if Sather retires/is fired, I would not be the least bit surprised if they went out and got another "name" GM, especially if Dolan is still running things.

Park #2 03-31-2004 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodiak
I thought the same thing when Smith got canned. When/if Sather retires/is fired, I would not be the least bit surprised if they went out and got another "name" GM, especially if Dolan is still running things.

Different situation between now and then.... Totally different.

True Blue 03-31-2004 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Park #2
Well, come on - the system is only as good as the players within it (and more specifically the players willingness to play within it).

This is the same system that teaches nothing but perimeter passing on the PP and stresses that no one is to go to the net? The same system that teaches the defensemen not to clear the crease?
There are certain things that are ALL coaching. Special teams is one of them. And seeing as how Renney was touted as an all-systems guy, I'd say it's safe to say that his "system" is pretty much a failure.

"The bottom line is that on this team, Holik is the top line center. Should he be? YES on this team."

I could care less what you call him. The real bottom line is that no matter what line Holik plays on, he should be going against the other teams top lines to shut down their top player. He has not been used in that role now in 2 years. Not by Jackass, not by Renney. His best and most productive role is when his sole job is to shut down the other teams top player. Playing him in any other role is ridiculous.

Park #2 03-31-2004 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
This is the same system that teaches nothing but perimeter passing on the PP and stresses that no one is to go to the net? The same system that teaches the defensemen not to clear the crease?

Do you REALLY believe that anyone involved in professional hockey would "teach" a system that stresses perimeter passing and stress that no one go to the net? Do you really believe that?

There are certain things that are ALL coaching. Special teams is one of them. And seeing as how Renney was touted as an all-systems guy, I'd say it's safe to say that his "system" is pretty much a failure.

There is nothing that is "ALL COACHING." Unless you wish to argue that failure of a player to follow the coaching is by default, the fault of the coach. Therein lies the problem. Coaching is important, but playing is more important.

I could care less what you call him. The real bottom line is that no matter what line Holik plays on, he should be going against the other teams top lines to shut down their top player. He has not been used in that role now in 2 years. Not by Jackass, not by Renney. His best and most productive role is when his sole job is to shut down the other teams top player. Playing him in any other role is ridiculous.

Renney hasn't really coached during a time when matching lines to bring the best out of Holik has been warranted.

Finally, I ask one favor. Please when having a discussion, debate or argument with me, call people in the NHL world by their names - and not derogatory names. Thanks.



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