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-   -   Sharpening/Radius Help Needed!!! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=664681)

hkyplayer03 07-18-2009 02:30 AM

Sharpening/Radius Help Needed!!!
 
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...1/IMG_0002.jpg


Ok so both skates left and right are different sizes and belong to a different pair. They both have only been sharpened once. I'm about to sell the one on the right cause it doesn't fit as well as the one on the left. However I seem to fatigue less with the skate on the right.

The skate on the left has significantly less steel and a different rocker than the skate on the right. I don't know why the sharpener took off so much steel. Is it even possible to fix blade on the left skate similar to the right?

I know, I know Hockeyfan68 and others said it was skating technique in this thread (http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ght=sharpening) but I definitely feel a moderate difference in fatigue between the two skates.

The rocker on my skates have traditionally been similar to the skate on the left but the skate on the right it seemed to be easier to push off of. Turning pretty much identical.

Comments and Help much appreciated. Thanks!


Right skate front

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...1/IMG_0009.jpg

Right skate back

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...1/IMG_0007.jpg

Left skate front


http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...1/IMG_0011.jpg

Left skate back

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...1/IMG_0010.jpg

Gunnar Stahl 30 07-18-2009 03:05 AM

i think the one on the right is the tuuk lightspeed 2.1. they are a longer runner to help with push offs and acceleration and speed. the tuuk lightspped 2 holders usually come with the normal lightspeed 2 runners but you can get the 2.1 power runners on them. thats what i think it might be

hkyplayer03 07-18-2009 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 (Post 20468096)
i think the one on the right is the tuuk lightspeed 2.1. they are a longer runner to help with push offs and acceleration and speed. the tuuk lightspped 2 holders usually come with the normal lightspeed 2 runners but you can get the 2.1 power runners on them. thats what i think it might be

I'm pretty sure both are LS2 runners. When I bought the skates I didn't upgrade to 2.1.

rinkrat22 07-18-2009 11:15 AM

I am not that familiar with bauer skates, I wear grafs cause I got jacked up feet. But those sure look like different holders to me. look at the number of rivets thats an indicator that I see just from the picture. I imagine if you have them in your hand you will see other differences. I would take the skates to an experienced sharpener to see if he can mimmick the grind that you have and like on the other skate.

Hockeyfan68 07-18-2009 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckleboy (Post 20469345)
I am not that familiar with bauer skates, I wear grafs cause I got jacked up feet. But those sure look like different holders to me. look at the number of rivets thats an indicator that I see just from the picture. I imagine if you have them in your hand you will see other differences. I would take the skates to an experienced sharpener to see if he can mimmick the grind that you have and like on the other skate.

They look like the same holder but one doesn't have graphic designs printed on them.

Sometimes I see that and I do not know what that means. Different year of manufacture? Different quality of holder?

I have a cheaper Bauer skate that has TUUK holders and they just say TUUK in a basic lettering on them yet my more expensive pair has all the graphics for the TUUK Plus holders.

I don't know for sure why one would have printing and one not but they do look like the exact same holder design.

frito 07-18-2009 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 (Post 20473541)
They look like the same holder but one doesn't have graphic designs printed on them.

Sometimes I see that and I do not know what that means. Different year of manufacture? Different quality of holder?

I have a cheaper Bauer skate that has TUUK holders and they just say TUUK in a basic lettering on them yet my more expensive pair has all the graphics for the TUUK Plus holders.

I don't know for sure why one would have printing and one not but they do look like the exact same holder design.

I don't know. As the previous poster mentioned, count the rivets. The skate on the right has 7 rivets but the skate on the left only has 5. Which skate is the larger size and by how much?

Hockeyfan68 07-18-2009 07:39 PM

Now as for the original poster ... different things can attribute to that fatigue and I would bet you have a different hollow on one than the other. The hollow is something most people don't pay any attention to and they let the skate sharpening guy just do a universal hollow for every customer as it makes his job easier.

Most of the business in a skate shop are with little kids and minors (teenagers) so there may be a chance you have a deep hollow for a smaller person and it is taking more work for you to skate because you are bigger maybe?

I do know one thing absolutely for a fact ... fatigue in one and not the other for the same skate between the two as far as model number should not be an issue. This MUST absolutely be a radius/hollow issue.

Having more steel on one would not factor into this problem you are having by the way.

Basically don't let it dictate which pair you sell or not because it isn't the skate. The only skate issue i can think of that would make one have a sluggish feeling or would fatigue you more quickly would be an improper fit and your foot is loose in them and not getting the power transfer like you do with the good pair.

I think if you get the right hollow you should be fine or get the skate fitted properly .... if the skate is not your size then get rid of them.

The other thing to consider is that maybe you have an uneven sharpening where the two points on the runner length that touch the ice are uneven causing you to use more energy to keep your skates the way they should be when skating.

Do your skates wiggle when gliding along if you are standing upright? if they wiggle a lot something is out of whack, always take your skates to a guy who has the gauges and guides to tell him if something is wrong.

What you can do for now though to check them quickly is to use a coin and lay it on the two sharpend edges of the hollow and look with your eyeballs to see if the coin is sitting uneven when looking down the length of the blade.

I hope you know what I mean I do not have a picture.

Hockeyfan68 07-18-2009 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frito (Post 20473615)
I don't know. As the previous poster mentioned, count the rivets. The skate on the right has 7 rivets but the skate on the left only has 5. Which skate is the larger size and by how much?

That certainly is interesting ... I do not know enough about the Lightspeed II series to answer that weirdness.

I am sure someone here will though. This forum has some knowledgeable folk in it.

Gunnar Stahl 30 07-18-2009 09:47 PM

alright a few questions.
are they both x60s?
did you buy them both new out of the box?
what do the graphics say on teh left skate holder?
is it a grey graphic that says lightspeed 2?

hkyplayer03 07-19-2009 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 (Post 20473541)
They look like the same holder but one doesn't have graphic designs printed on them.

Sometimes I see that and I do not know what that means. Different year of manufacture? Different quality of holder?

I have a cheaper Bauer skate that has TUUK holders and they just say TUUK in a basic lettering on them yet my more expensive pair has all the graphics for the TUUK Plus holders.

I don't know for sure why one would have printing and one not but they do look like the exact same holder design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frito (Post 20473615)
I don't know. As the previous poster mentioned, count the rivets. The skate on the right has 7 rivets but the skate on the left only has 5. Which skate is the larger size and by how much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 (Post 20474543)
alright a few questions.
are they both x60s?
did you buy them both new out of the box?
what do the graphics say on teh left skate holder?
is it a grey graphic that says lightspeed 2?

Quote:

Originally Posted by frito (Post 20473615)
I don't know. As the previous poster mentioned, count the rivets. The skate on the right has 7 rivets but the skate on the left only has 5. Which skate is the larger size and by how much?

Skate on the left is 4.5EE and skate on the right is 5.5EE

The graphics are different cause I took the opposite sides by accident to take pics. So for the skate on the left you are looking at holder from the inside. The skate on the left is view of the holder from outside.

Both holders are the same (light speed 2) with both blades at 1/2inch hollow and both are brand new out of the box x60's.

It's strange how the 5.5EE (right skate) gives me less fatigue despite me being able to stick a pencil in the heel area. When I was wearing them I fixed the problem by kicking heel back and tie the laces quite tight, but by the middle of the game I would get some slippage, especially when backwards skating.

The 4.5EE (left skate) fit me perfectly but it feels like I don't get as much push. I don't get any wiggle with both skates but I have noticed some scratching sounds on the 4.5EE when I take certain turns, despite stoning the burr after every game.


Is it strange to you guys how one sharpener would leave so much steel on one skate while the other will take off a lot less for the skates first sharpen out of the box. Is it justifiable for so much steel to be taken off? Should I be pissed off that the guy took off so much off the left skate?

I think I may need the profiling to be fixed, both skates have balanced blades using the coin. Here's a link below explaining profiling.

http://noicingsports.com/skate_radius_profiling.html

Hockeyfan68 07-19-2009 02:53 PM

Well that solves the rivet count issue lmao. That skate looks the same on the inside as it does on the outside .... kookiness!

Well anyway getting them raduised is good for more than one reason ... one .... you KNOW for a fact it is correct so if the problem is still there you can now look somewhere else for a solution.

Two ... most skate feel issues are with the blade whether it be a warped runner or bad uneven edges etc. getting them done right will eliminate so many problems and MAY take care of this problem for you.

If not you will have to start looking at the fit and trying things like Superfeet insoles like the guys in here swear by. I've not used them but enough good knowledgable guys in here have and swear by them.

In any case that skate is a good skate so it shouldn't be very difficult to figure this out.

cptjeff 07-19-2009 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkyplayer03 (Post 20475879)
Skate on the left is 4.5EE and skate on the right is 5.5EE

The graphics are different cause I took the opposite sides by accident to take pics. So for the skate on the left you are looking at holder from the inside. The skate on the left is view of the holder from outside.

Both holders are the same (light speed 2) with both blades at 1/2inch hollow and both are brand new out of the box x60's.

It's strange how the 5.5EE (right skate) gives me less fatigue despite me being able to stick a pencil in the heel area. When I was wearing them I fixed the problem by kicking heel back and tie the laces quite tight, but by the middle of the game I would get some slippage, especially when backwards skating.

The 4.5EE (left skate) fit me perfectly but it feels like I don't get as much push. I don't get any wiggle with both skates but I have noticed some scratching sounds on the 4.5EE when I take certain turns, despite stoning the burr after every game.


Is it strange to you guys how one sharpener would leave so much steel on one skate while the other will take off a lot less for the skates first sharpen out of the box. Is it justifiable for so much steel to be taken off? Should I be pissed off that the guy took off so much off the left skate?

I think I may need the profiling to be fixed, both skates have balanced blades using the coin. Here's a link below explaining profiling.

http://noicingsports.com/skate_radius_profiling.html

Basically, what I would do if you brought me your skates would be to measure if the edge is even. The penny might be a nice little trick, but a sharpener will have gauges that will be able to tell them if it's exactly even or not.

Second, I would feel to see if the steel is loose. It very well could be, and if it is you would be loosing a lot of energy in the energy transfer when you take a stride. That can be fixed by tightening up one screw on Tuuks, and any competent shop will have the tools to do so.

I would also look at would be the radius and compare between your two skates, they're probably different. If you don't specify, you just get whatever the last guy got and what the wheel is set at. Don't let that happen, changing radii like that will screw with your skating. If it's different, and it probably is, I would try and get you closer to your larger skate, and that would probably involve giving you a shallower hollow.

Another possibility is that the last guy who did your skates didn't put a great final pass on them. A slow final pass on the sharpener without much pressure and preferably with a honing oil will make the bottom of your skate much smoother, giving you a better glide and letting you take less strides. If he didn't do a great job on that you would notice, how much I'm not sure. I doubt you would notice to the degree you're mentioning here.

Yet another thought relating to glide is that the longer steel is sinking into the ice less and spreading out your weight, helping your glide and lowering the energy you use. Your options if you think it's that would be getting a larger holder, which your boots might or might not fit, but you could just use the holders on your larger boots. They may not fit, so you may or may not have that option.
The other choice on that end would be having your blades profiled to a flatter profile, say an 11' instead of a 9'. That's cheaper, but not all shops have the setup to do that.

Basically, take it in and have a guy check the first three things and give them a fresh sharpening at a similar hollow to the other skate, which would take care of the fourth if the guy's any good. If that fails, then look at profiling.


Good luck!

Hockeyfan68 07-19-2009 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjeff (Post 20481454)
Basically, what I would do if you brought me your skates would be to measure if the edge is even. The penny might be a nice little trick, but a sharpener will have gauges that will be able to tell them if it's exactly even or not.

Do your skates wiggle when gliding along if you are standing upright? if they wiggle a lot something is out of whack, always take your skates to a guy who has the gauges and guides to tell him if something is wrong.

What you can do for now though to check them quickly is to use a coin and lay it on the two sharpend edges of the hollow and look with your eyeballs to see if the coin is sitting uneven when looking down the length of the blade.



Yeah the penny trick like I said is not an absolutely accurate way of telling but it does eliminate the obvious. I got it from that Laura Stamm book someone posted recently.

I didn't think of the loose runner business, had that happen to me once actually and I knew something wasn't right when playing but could not figure it out until on day I got them sharpened and the guy says I had a loose runner.

I figured out what caused it too ... I use a handheld sharpener to keep an edge in between real sharpenings that uses honing oil which gravity sucked into the runner holder and lubed the nut inside which loosened slightly after a couple of years.

hkyplayer03 07-20-2009 05:47 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I'll take them in for a regular sharpen and see how it feels. Given that the skates have gone through just one sharpening I'll give them a chance before thinking seriously about re-profiling them. I looked at the skates together and both have almost the same rocker, just a different style of sharpening. The left skate just has a lot less steel than the other.

I'll update what happens.


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