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-   -   Top 10 All-time Defensemen (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=664957)

sidewayzLEAFS 07-19-2009 10:41 AM

Top 10 All-time Defensemen
 
i now you guys have already gone over this but its such a great topic with so many great d-men over the years...
this video seems to sum it up perfectly to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SLB3DujcTg

heres the order

10 stevens
9 red kelly
8 lidstrom
7 larry robinson
6 potvin
5 coffey
4 shore
3 bourque
2 harvey
1 orr

also, check out the vid for some great honourable mentions

Reds4Life 07-19-2009 10:46 AM

Stevens and Coffey in the top 10 is a complete joke imho.

1. Orr - by far the best
2. Harvey
2. Shore
4. Bourque
5. Lidstrom
6. Potvin
7. Kelly
8. Robinson
9. Fetisov
10. Chelios
10. Park

sidewayzLEAFS 07-19-2009 11:00 AM

i believe that bobby is bar far number one...
howwver, did you check the vid, in which park and chelios are honourbale mentions..
but fetisov is definately a good point

amnesiac* 07-19-2009 11:00 AM

1. Orr


2. Harvey
3. Shore
4. Bourque
5. Potvin
6. Lidstrom

7. Robinson
8. Coffey
9. Park
10. Chelios

HM: Kelly, MacInnis, Stevens, Leetch, Langway, Niedermayer

Fredrik_71 07-19-2009 11:03 AM

1. Bobby Orr

2. Eddie Shore
3. Doug Harvey

4. Raymond Bourque
5. Nicklas Lidstrom
6. Denis Potvin
7. Red Kelly
8. Larry Robinson

9. Viacheslav Fetisov
10. Brad Park

//Cheers

TheDevilMadeMe 07-19-2009 11:07 AM

1. Orr
2. Harvey
3. Shore
4. Bourque
5. Lidstrom
6. Potvin
7. Robinson
8. Kelly
9. Fetisov
10. Chelios

HM: Park, Coffey, Pilote, Horton, Stevens

Switch Kelly and Robinson if we are talking about Kelly's whole career (rather than just time at D).

sidewayzLEAFS 07-19-2009 11:10 AM

at least everyone can agree with orr, hoarvey, shote and bourque being the top 4 d-men:handclap:

Dennis Bonvie 07-19-2009 11:27 AM

1. Orr
2. Shore
3. Harvey
4. Bourque
5. Potvin
6. Kelly
7. Lidstrom
8. Robinson
9. Park
10. Fetisov

sidewayzLEAFS 07-19-2009 11:28 AM

ALSO check out the video link in the first comment...its a pretty good video on top 10 d-men with some good pics:yo:

Big Phil 07-19-2009 11:31 AM

Orr
Harvey
Shore
Bourque
Potvin
Lidstrom
Robinson
Kelly
Coffey
Chelios

Look seriously, I know a lot of people hate Coffey in the top 10 but I can't think of a HHOF player that has gotten so much hate on him since his retirement that he hasn't deserved. Coffey was a great defenseman, and it doesnt matter what era he would have played in anybody would have taken Coffey on their team in his prime.

Above is my list, Park/Fetisov/Pilote would be outside of the top 10 IMO. Lidstrom has had a great career and I think if you factor in longevity he beats Robinson nowadays, but I couldn't put him ahead of Potvin since he brought a little more to the table. And the Lidstrom vs. Bourque polls I see out there are usually done by people that didn't see Ray Bourque play so IMO there isn't much of a discussion putting Lidstrom ahead of him. Some might even still have Robinson ahead of Lidstrom, and that's fine with me too. But I'll give Nick the edge

ushvinder 07-19-2009 11:46 AM

No mention of clancy or siebert, maybe its because we never saw them play.

sidewayzLEAFS 07-19-2009 11:49 AM

yeah, because shore and harvey seem to be the only mentions of players 1950's era and before.. i think brad park may desrve spot #10, after all he was overshaowed by orr for a major part of his career..

Dennis Bonvie 07-19-2009 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil (Post 20478303)
Orr
Harvey
Shore
Bourque
Potvin
Lidstrom
Robinson
Kelly
Coffey
Chelios

Look seriously, I know a lot of people hate Coffey in the top 10 but I can't think of a HHOF player that has gotten so much hate on him since his retirement that he hasn't deserved. Coffey was a great defenseman, and it doesnt matter what era he would have played in anybody would have taken Coffey on their team in his prime.

Above is my list, Park/Fetisov/Pilote would be outside of the top 10 IMO. Lidstrom has had a great career and I think if you factor in longevity he beats Robinson nowadays, but I couldn't put him ahead of Potvin since he brought a little more to the table. And the Lidstrom vs. Bourque polls I see out there are usually done by people that didn't see Ray Bourque play so IMO there isn't much of a discussion putting Lidstrom ahead of him. Some might even still have Robinson ahead of Lidstrom, and that's fine with me too. But I'll give Nick the edge

That's true. Look how many actually did take him. Then compare it to how many teams the other greats played for.

sidewayzLEAFS 07-19-2009 11:52 AM

also, the lidstrom and robinson ranking was tough...i think that if lidstrom can prove his longevity with 2 more decent seasons he will end up ahead of robinson, its just that i believe robinson played at a time when the elite d-men in the league were amazing throughthe late 70's and 80's:sarcasm:

NHLHammerbound* 07-19-2009 11:53 AM

Personally I'd put Potvin at #2, behind only Orr, Bourque at 3 works fine for me...

CHEERS ET AL

cupcrazyman 07-19-2009 11:59 AM

i think that once you throw in the offensive skills of said defenseman,thats when the agreements/disagreements start.

Bobby Orr is #1 for a reason.he could do it all: play defense,score,check,fight.

sidewayzLEAFS 07-19-2009 12:02 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SLB3DujcTg

playing defense, it isnt just about stats and goals and assists but also hte unseen stats such as takeways, interceptions, goals saved, shots blocked, clearing the zone, etc

enough siad bobby orr is still the best and always will be

Big Phil 07-19-2009 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie (Post 20478487)
That's true. Look how many actually did take him. Then compare it to how many teams the other greats played for.

There are reasons for that. Coffey post-1996 started to plummet. He was 35 after all, and he was not the elite defenseman anymore. But he was on Edmonton from '80-87 and left on his own will (holdout). Then he went to Pittsburgh and was traded by 1992, LA for one year, and then Detroit till 1996. If you look at that time frame that isn't too bad over 16 years. It's his post 1996 career that's just dreadful and where he played for 5 more teams in as many years.

NHLHammerbound* 07-19-2009 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidewayzLEAFS (Post 20477931)
i now you guys have already gone over this but its such a great topic with so many great d-men over the years...
this video seems to sum it up perfectly to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SLB3DujcTg

heres the order

10 stevens
9 red kelly
8 lidstrom
7 larry robinson
6 potvin
5 coffey
4 shore
3 bourque
2 harvey
1 orr

Personally I'd put Potvin at #2, behind only Orr, Bourque at 3 works fine for me...Ditto Shore @4 ( although, I never saw him play ) Harvey might be 5 in my books ( but my memories of him are quite hazy, + I heard he had a fondness for drink ) ...Maybe Lidstrom next...BUT I always really liked Brad Park, and CCCPers Vasiliev and Fetisov as well. Can't think of too many that were better. Robinson, Kelly, Stevens and Tim Horton too...all HM... Ok he was a great skater, and I also really liked him ( offensively at least ) Still Coffey over Potvin? that's CRAZY IMO

CHEERS ET AL

sidewayzLEAFS 07-19-2009 12:10 PM

yeah, coffeys defensive play was always questionable but in his prime his offensive play was outstanding

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SLB3DujcTg

Dark Shadows 07-19-2009 12:40 PM

1. Bobby Orr
2. Eddie Shore
3. Doug Harvey
4. Raymond Bourque
5. Nicklas Lidstrom
6. Denis Potvin
7. Red Kelly
8. Larry Robinson
9. Viacheslav Fetisov
10. Brad Park
11. Chris Chelios
12. Paul Coffey
13. Pierre Pilote
14. Dit Clapper
15. King Clancy
16. Earl Seibert
17. Tim Horton
18. Bill Gadsby
19. Al Macinnis
20. Sprague Cleghorn
21. Borje Salming
22. Valeri Vasiliev
23. Scott Stevens
24. Brian Leetch
25. Rod Langway


Based on the usual combination of criteria. Peak, Prime, Career, Durability, Longevity, playoffs, intangibles, Offensive play, Defensive play and yes, competition matters.

Dark Shadows 07-19-2009 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil (Post 20478303)
Orr
Harvey
Shore
Bourque
Potvin
Lidstrom
Robinson
Kelly
Coffey
Chelios

Look seriously, I know a lot of people hate Coffey in the top 10 but I can't think of a HHOF player that has gotten so much hate on him since his retirement that he hasn't deserved. Coffey was a great defenseman, and it doesnt matter what era he would have played in anybody would have taken Coffey on their team in his prime.

Above is my list, Park/Fetisov/Pilote would be outside of the top 10 IMO. Lidstrom has had a great career and I think if you factor in longevity he beats Robinson nowadays, but I couldn't put him ahead of Potvin since he brought a little more to the table. And the Lidstrom vs. Bourque polls I see out there are usually done by people that didn't see Ray Bourque play so IMO there isn't much of a discussion putting Lidstrom ahead of him. Some might even still have Robinson ahead of Lidstrom, and that's fine with me too. But I'll give Nick the edge

I can see an argument for Coffey over Chelios, Pilote and Fetisov(If you do not care for non-NHL play), but I see no argument for him over Brad Park.

Personally, based on my criteria of what is important, Coffey comes in behind Chelios and Fetisov, but narrowly beats Pilote.

Der Kaiser 07-19-2009 01:24 PM

1. Bobby Orr
2. Doug Harvey
3. Eddie Shore
4. Raymond Bourque
5. Nicklas Lidström
6. Denis Potvin
7. Red Kelly
8. Viatcheslav Fetisov
9. Brad Park
10. Paul Coffey

Big Phil 07-19-2009 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jekyll (Post 20479099)
I can see an argument for Coffey over Chelios, Pilote and Fetisov(If you do not care for non-NHL play), but I see no argument for him over Brad Park.

Personally, based on my criteria of what is important, Coffey comes in behind Chelios and Fetisov, but narrowly beats Pilote.

I like Park, but I felt Coffey could control the pace of a game about as good as any defenseman of all time not named Orr or Harvey. He could set the tone, how many other defenseman could rush the puck up the ice like him on a whim? That alone would force me to put him in the top 10. His defense was average but his offense was 2nd best ever. That combination is lethal in my books. I can live with you putting Park ahead of him though, no disrespect to Park at all.

sidewayzLEAFS 07-19-2009 03:18 PM

id have potvin over coffey cause defiensively potvin was much better
however, on that list from 1-25 top d-men
i disagree with:
stevens at 23 way too low
leetch at 24 too low
and lidstrom over potvin is nearly pathetic


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