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-   -   Trade: Colin Stuart + Anton Stralman to CGY for Wayne Primeau + CGY 2nd 2011 Part Two (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=668887)

Habs10Habs 08-01-2009 11:45 AM

Trade: Colin Stuart + Anton Stralman to CGY for Wayne Primeau + CGY 2nd 2011 Part Two
 
The previous thread passed 1000 posts. So discussions can be continued in this thread.

Here's the link to the previous thread.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=667519

Volcanologist 08-01-2009 11:50 AM

Well, let's start off by saying that Kubina and Stralman for Wayne Primeau, Exelby and a 2nd two years from now is a horrible trade.

IWD 08-01-2009 11:51 AM

I'm wondering why a minor deal is still being discussed.

ugotmybeef* 08-01-2009 11:52 AM

first time I've seen a Hab mod start a thread for us.

Man Hole Inspector* 08-01-2009 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ugotmybeef (Post 20629730)
first time I've seen a Hab mod start a thread for us.

Hes turning into a leaf fan ?

thepublichairs 08-01-2009 11:57 AM

we cant trust this guy

RhyZa 08-01-2009 12:19 PM

*boycotts*

russmatuss 08-01-2009 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volcanologist (Post 20629726)
Well, let's start off by saying that Kubina and Stralman for Wayne Primeau, Exelby and a 2nd two years from now is a horrible trade.

...and the ability to sign Komisarek.

dubey 08-01-2009 12:23 PM

Great trade! A++++! Would trade again!

LTL 08-01-2009 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mess
If that happens with current Leafs vets on expiring contracts, and with Leafs in a striking playoff position at the trade deadline that then also contradicts the belief that we will see an influx of extra draft picks for these players in question.

Better odds they are kept to keep the playoff drive potential alive or maybe traded in hockey deals to bring in different players.. Although at the trade deadline we don't see a lot of these types of deals that teams give away roster players for other roster players when attempting to strengthen playoff teams. Non playoff teams have no need for Pony, Stempniak or MVR on expiring contracts.

This was my point earlier I was trying to make in rebuttal to more drafts picks being acquired as the expectation. Its only realistically possible with a team out of playoff contention.

IMO Burke is just as likely to keep most of them in a playoff drive, let those he doesn't want to walk away as UFAs, and then replace them from within with youth or sign replacements for FREE via the UFA spending route like this season.

It only delays the process not eliminate it. Those same players we're acquiring in return will eventually become UFA's and future trade bait. Letting any half decent player just walk in the summer is idiotic and poor asset management.

Transplanted Caper 08-01-2009 12:32 PM

I'm going to be interested to see whether Burke moves some bodies up front before or after camp. There are a lot of bottom 6 players on this team and one would think Burke is going to move a few bodies out.

Mess 08-01-2009 12:35 PM

The previous interim GM traded a pair of future 2nd round picks to obtain Luke Schenn and Mikhail Grabovski for the Leafs as part of the rebuild process.. Both are now expect to be key contributors to our immediate and future success..

I was wondering based on this deal here if posters had to pick an option .. Which would they rather have seen during our rebuild process? .

Option A: Stralman traded for a 2011 2nd round pick

or

Option B: Burke trading a 2011 2nd round pick to obtain a young prospect < age 23 to bring in instant help like Schenn and Grabovski became?

Which do you prefer trading young players for picks or trading picks for young players during the rebuild process?

With the uncertainty of success that the draft selection made comes with personally I prefer the option of using future picks on young ready made NHLers to accelerate the rebuild process. I would chose to give rather then receive. :)

LTL 08-01-2009 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mess (Post 20630049)
The previous interim GM traded a pair of future 2nd round picks to obtain Luke Schenn and Mikhail Grabovski for the Leafs as part of the rebuild process.. Both are now expect to be key contributors to our immediate and future success..

I was wondering based on this deal here if posters had to pick an option .. Which would they rather have seen during our rebuild process? .

Option A: Stralman traded for a 2011 2nd round pick

or

Option B: Burke trading a 2011 2nd round pick to obtain a young prospect < age 23 to bring in instant help like Schenn and Grabovski became?

Which do you prefer trading young players for picks or trading picks for young players during the rebuild process?

With the uncertainty of success that the draft selection made comes with personally I prefer the option of using future picks on young ready made NHLers to accelerate the rebuild process. I would chose to give rather then receive. :)

I doubt the Flames would have given the leafs a prospect.

Transplanted Caper 08-01-2009 12:42 PM

Can't we just decide on a case by case basis whether a deal is good or not?

mooseOAK* 08-01-2009 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTL (Post 20630072)
I doubt the Flames would have given the leafs a prospect.

Not a need for the Leafs anyway.

Volcanologist 08-01-2009 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russmatuss (Post 20629956)
...and the ability to sign Komisarek.

They already had that, as was demonstrated by the subsequent signing of Beauchemin at 3.8 once Komisarek was in the fold.

Habs10Habs 08-01-2009 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ugotmybeef (Post 20629730)
first time I've seen a Hab mod start a thread for us.

Yeah it doesn't happen very often. Kind of like a solar eclipse, or Mike Komisarek scoring a goal. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russian-Rocket (Post 20629751)
Hes turning into a leaf fan ?

Oh gawd no. :laugh:

Mess 08-01-2009 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTL (Post 20630072)
I doubt the Flames would have given the leafs a prospect.

I was speaking in general terms overall on trading for or receiving a future pick for a young player strategy.

But you make a good point here perhaps if you're correct.. That means the Flames themselves would value their own prospects more then the 2011 2nd round pick if they didn't want to part with prospect(s).. They also value Stralman as well > 2nd round pick or they wouldn't have made the trade.

So Flames essentially gave away the least valued item they had to get Stralman. Yet generally speaking the majority of Leaf fans view it as the best return we could have expected/hoped for Stralman and in turn call it a good trade for us as we ranked 2nd > Stralman.

Since its the GMs that made the trade and Burke believes 2nd in 2011 > Stralman and Sutter believes the exact opposite as he dealt the pick for the player..

Since both can't be true simultaneously then the victor of the trade appears to be viewed from the perspective of; "In the eyes of the beholder" for each GM. :)

asdf 08-01-2009 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mess (Post 20630475)
I was speaking in general terms overall on trading for or receiving a future pick for a young player strategy.

But you make a good point here perhaps if you're correct.. That means the Flames themselves would value their own prospects more then the 2011 2nd round pick if they didn't want to part with prospect(s).. They also value Stralman as well > 2nd round pick or they wouldn't have made the trade.

So Flames essentially gave away the least valued item they had to get Stralman. Yet generally speaking the majority of Leaf fans view it as the best return we could have expected/hoped for Stralman and in turn call it a good trade for us as we ranked 2nd > Stralman.

Since its the GMs that made the trade and Burke believes 2nd in 2011 > Stralman and Sutter believes the exact opposite as he dealt the pick for the player..

Since both can't be true simultaneously then the victor of the trade appears to be viewed from the perspective of; "In the eyes of the beholder" for each GM. :)

The Flames were also able to unload Primeau's salary (which they desperately need) so maybe it's not that they covet Stralman more than the 2nd but rather a condition of the deal.

Mess 08-01-2009 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf (Post 20630537)
The Flames were also able to unload Primeau's salary (which they desperately need) so maybe it's not that they covet Stralman more than the 2nd but rather a condition of the deal.

True, the difference between Stuart $485k and Primeau $1.4 mil nearly saved the Flames $1 mil on the exchange.. That is certainly further benefit to making this trade from a Flames perspective, since they're tight to Cap ceiling..

No benefit to Leafs by eating another $1 mil cap space so then Burke must also believe that 33 year old Wayne Primeau > benefit to Leafs team than 27 year old old Colin Stuart + $1 mil cap space by process of elimination here, if Stralman is assumed = the pick.

burke4life 08-01-2009 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mess (Post 20630475)
I was speaking in general terms overall on trading for or receiving a future pick for a young player strategy.

But you make a good point here perhaps if you're correct.. That means the Flames themselves would value their own prospects more then the 2011 2nd round pick if they didn't want to part with prospect(s).. They also value Stralman as well > 2nd round pick or they wouldn't have made the trade.

So Flames essentially gave away the least valued item they had to get Stralman. Yet generally speaking the majority of Leaf fans view it as the best return we could have expected/hoped for Stralman and in turn call it a good trade for us as we ranked 2nd > Stralman.

Since its the GMs that made the trade and Burke believes 2nd in 2011 > Stralman and Sutter believes the exact opposite as he dealt the pick for the player..

Since both can't be true simultaneously then the victor of the trade appears to be viewed from the perspective of; "In the eyes of the beholder" for each GM. :)

I personally dont agree with that and let me tell you why. The only reason burke wants the 2nd over stralman is b/c he wants to put his own stamp on the team. If burke had drafted stralman himself, then he wouldn't have valued the 2nd rounder greater than stralman.
He knows he wont be the GM of toronto FOREVER, there will be a time where he will step down, or a new GM will come in. But untill that time comes, he wants to draft as many players as he can and really change the way leafs front office has been functioning over the years. AND if possible, win a cup for the good guys!
what you think? agree or disagree?

Poggemon Destiny* 08-01-2009 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volcanologist (Post 20629726)
Well, let's start off by saying that Kubina and Stralman for Wayne Primeau, Exelby and a 2nd two years from now is a horrible trade.

:help:

You can't pick and choose. You have to look at the bigger picture and realize that Komisarek and Beauchemin were brought in instead. And whether the 2nd is today or 10 years from it doesn't change the fact that it's a 2nd.

Lexicon 08-01-2009 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poggemon Destiny (Post 20631040)
:help:

You can't pick and choose. You have to look at the bigger picture and realize that Komisarek and Beauchemin were brought in instead. And whether the 2nd is today or 10 years from it doesn't change the fact that it's a 2nd.

:laugh:

Leaf Rocket 08-01-2009 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs10Habs (Post 20630434)
Yeah it doesn't happen very often. Kind of like a solar eclipse, or Mike Komisarek scoring a goal. ;)



Oh gawd no. :laugh:

you will join...us...soon...JOIN THE DARK SIDE! :rant: lol

Volcanologist 08-01-2009 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poggemon Destiny (Post 20631040)
:help:

You can't pick and choose. You have to look at the bigger picture and realize that Komisarek and Beauchemin were brought in instead. And whether the 2nd is today or 10 years from it doesn't change the fact that it's a 2nd.

What do you mean "pick and choose"??

Kubina, Stralman, Stuart and the 7th went out and Exelby, Primeau, and a second round pick that we won't even get to use for 2 more years came in. Those are the facts.

Beauchemin has nothing at all to do with the trade, he cost nothing but money. He could have been signed whether or not we traded Kubina -- again, we already had the cap space if no topline forward was brought in.


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