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Kovy4thewin 08-07-2009 04:45 PM

Canada Or Russia
 
Who do you think will have the better team come 2010

espo* 08-07-2009 07:33 PM

Depends on where you come from.

Russian fans will swear on their Mothers Bible that they are the best and will prove it next year (that is, of course, if the refs are treating them fairly;)

Canadian fans aren't any better, they think it's their God Given right to win each and every time and will gladly tell you that if you're stupid enough to give them 5 minutes to do so.

But i'd keep my eyes open next year, you might not even see a Canada-Russia showdown for the Gold.

They aren't the only contenders i'll tell you that, though they like to think they are.

Just ask them:sarcasm:.

Kman777 08-07-2009 07:46 PM

No one touches Canada/Russia.

espo* 08-07-2009 07:58 PM

Well yeah, it's the best rivalry for sure.

One of the best in sports hands down.

What's better in sports then a Canada-Russia tilt with all the marbles on the table?

Nothing, it's amazing to me so many sports buffs don't get it.


Canada-Russia in Hockey is about as good as it gets for us sports nerds.

Sentinel 08-07-2009 08:55 PM

ESPO: the question wasn't "who's gonna win?" but "who's gonna have the better team?" That can be answered in two ways.

Talent-wise, Russia is clearly better upfront. Top snipers, top scorers, and all current award winners are Russian. Their stars are all in their prime, they are battle-tested, they are all winners at the NHL/KHL/IIHF level. Canadian forwards are certainly talented, but nobody on their team is on the level of Russia's Big 4 (Dats, Ovie, Kovie, and Malx). Canada is slightly better in their own end, but not by the same margin. Their big D are mostly past their prime. So is Brodeur, and Luongo has never accomplished anything at any serious level. At least Nabokov is now a World Champion.

The real question is: how will all these players gel into one team. Russian team has a history of coming apart and never really playing like a team (Nagano98 was the closest they've ever been to a TEAM), but in the past couple of years they have done just that. Canada usually beat their opponents with sheer talent. I don't remember many instances when their SYSTEM prevailed, except, maybe WHC05. For the first time in recent memory, Russian players will play one system, a system they are familiar with (everybody except Datsyuk, Kovalev -- if, and Zubov -- if, has played the Bykov's system before), and a system that has been proven to produce results.

So, all in all, I say Russia will be a better team. Who will win? We'll see.

Eye of Ra 08-07-2009 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kman777 (Post 20699181)
No one touches Canada/Russia.

That is not true.

Zine 08-07-2009 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by espo (Post 20699271)
Well yeah, it's the best rivalry for sure.

One of the best in sports hands down.

What's better in sports then a Canada-Russia tilt with all the marbles on the table?

Nothing, it's amazing to me so many sports buffs don't get it.


Canada-Russia in Hockey is about as good as it gets for us sports nerds.

Being a hockey fan Canada v Russia is my favourite, but there are a good number of rivalries in other sports that are more intense and pressure filled....even at club level.

espo* 08-07-2009 11:31 PM

They aren't better up front, just better on the wings. Centres after Malkin Canada has Russia from first line to fourth, and those 3rd and fourth are going to come into play,especially when Richards starts banging Evgeni around, which he is going to do, just watch.

And the 1 and 2? Crosby and Getzlaf, who i more then feel comfortable putting up against Malkin and Dats any day of the week.

You sit down 10 hockey fans and 5 will prefer our 1-2 combo better then yours, so where does Russia grade out better there?

You have us on the wings and nowwhere else, period.

Long in the tooth on defense? I don't know why you say that, only Pronger and Neidermayer are up there with what we'll bring and from what i saw last year they are still both good enough to give Russia lot's of problems, especially Niedermayer, Bykov would love to have him if he were Russian. He would waltz on to any top six on Team Russia. In case you've been watching too many kHL games the guy still has wings for ankles, he can outskate any Russian d-man you'll bring even at 38.

The only thing i worry about Neidermayer is him getting injured during the regular season, but i can say that about any player who is olympic bound for any team.


and like i said in another thread, i don't know what you'll do with a Phaneuf-Weber pairing on the PK, i doubt super defense selke man Datsyuk is blocking all those shots unless he wants to be half dead by the 3rd period. Good luck Russia, you're going to need it.

I'll give you the team thing, though i don't think thats a garuntee until the games are played, you get no points for paper with me.

As for our "team", 2006 isn't that far back,you make it sound like 1806.I seem to remember taking home the big prize, on the big ice, in front of hostile fans, right in your guys backyard yes?.Think a Steve Yzerman led team isn't going to be at least capable of playing a team game if they get their **** together? And if they do that with the talent they have, you guys are in trouble, don't think you're not.

Who do you think Canada is anyway? some hockey novices? Like we don't know how to play a team hockey game?.

That was almost an insult IMO.

You wouldn't catch me saying crap like that about Russia i can tell you that, what could you possibly have been thinking when you wrote that?

amazing, you would think we have earned that respect at the least, i know Russia has over here with anyone that has half a clue.

As for the individual awards winners you mentioned, give me another year and i'll give you other winners, and they won't be Russian.Thats all cyclical, you don't get any paper points with me for that either.


so yeah, we'll see sentinel. You sure don't have it won in August 2009 I know that.

You're crazy to assume you do, and on questionable reasoning at that. To me and many others they are nothing but premature premises.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentinel (Post 20699600)
ESPO: the question wasn't "who's gonna win?" but "who's gonna have the better team?" That can be answered in two ways.

Talent-wise, Russia is clearly better upfront. Top snipers, top scorers, and all current award winners are Russian. Their stars are all in their prime, they are battle-tested, they are all winners at the NHL/KHL/IIHF level. Canadian forwards are certainly talented, but nobody on their team is on the level of Russia's Big 4 (Dats, Ovie, Kovie, and Malx). Canada is slightly better in their own end, but not by the same margin. Their big D are mostly past their prime. So is Brodeur, and Luongo has never accomplished anything at any serious level. At least Nabokov is now a World Champion.

The real question is: how will all these players gel into one team. Russian team has a history of coming apart and never really playing like a team (Nagano98 was the closest they've ever been to a TEAM), but in the past couple of years they have done just that. Canada usually beat their opponents with sheer talent. I don't remember many instances when their SYSTEM prevailed, except, maybe WHC05. For the first time in recent memory, Russian players will play one system, a system they are familiar with (everybody except Datsyuk, Kovalev -- if, and Zubov -- if, has played the Bykov's system before), and a system that has been proven to produce results.

So, all in all, I say Russia will be a better team. Who will win? We'll see.


espo* 08-07-2009 11:32 PM

Not many.

Russia-Canada hockey tilts are about as good as it gets IMO.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Zine (Post 20700466)
Being a hockey fan Canada v Russia is my favourite, but there are a good number of rivalries in other sports that are more intense and pressure filled....even at club level.


Zine 08-08-2009 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by espo (Post 20700609)
Who do you think Canada is anyway? some hockey novices? Like we don't know how to play a team hockey game?.

That was almost an insult IMO.

Insulted?:confused:
What do you think happened last olympics?

Itís not disrespect as much as reality -- especially considering Canada is likely returning 12-13 players from a squad that had no team play and couldnít score a goal to save its life.


Anyways, Russia has the advantage up front; Canada on defense. In goal Nabokov and whoever Canada chooses basically equals out.
Imo, the team that plays the best wins.

espo* 08-08-2009 02:58 AM

now we're really insulted.


Last olympics? what the hell are you guys on about last olympics anyway?


what?

last olympics?

What the hell did you guys finish last olympics?

Have you lost your sanity?

I'm saying this, if you don't respect(and it doesn't sound like you do) how we can build solid Hockey teams, then 2 world championships have gone to your head, just like i've said they did.

Can you imagine, Canada doesn't know how to win in Hockey?.



Are you out of your mind?

Can you be any more insulting?

I agree that the best team wins, the question is, who is that best team?


You and sentinel have given nothing but bravado.

Bravado counts for jack **** though.

espo* 08-08-2009 03:45 AM

This at least i'll agree with.

And Russia better play it's best too, or we'll take them out if they don't.

and vice versa.


the team that plays the best wins.[/QUOTE]

Zine 08-08-2009 04:39 AM

Settle down. I never said Canada doesn't know how to win hockey.....quit putting words in my mouth.

But what Sentinel said was 100% correct. Canada can play a team game, but unlike Canada WJC, you haven't been nearly as successful in this aspect at olympics level (only 1 medal in 3 olympics). And even when you won gold you looked terrible in preliminary round.
I used last olympics result to illustrate this point and I bring it up because a good portion of that team is returning in 2010, and this time with even more pressure.

What he said about Russia is 100% correct also. Chemistry/effort/team game has traditionally been a BIG problem for us (even with this problem we've managed 2 medals in 3 olympics)......but now it seems to be a strength under Bykov.

Like I said, any result will come down to who plays better.


But keep on being 'outraged' by crazy online Russian supporters. Remember, the internet IS serious business.:shakehead:laugh:

espo* 08-08-2009 07:11 AM

I hardly have to put words in your mouth, your sentences back up everything i am ragging on the last few posts. it's not like anyone can miss it.

You keep talking about past olympics and point out that we won a Gold yet didn't look good in the pre-lim games.

Did we win Gold or not?

It sounds so silly zine.

Do Russian fans actually have the balls to write off a Gold victory?

Has being a failure at all 3 past olympics got you that desperate?

Why don't you go on the Czech board and give them heck for winning nagano with a goalie and little else and the Swedish board with sandbagging a pre-lim game to get a more suited opponent in the medal round if you've got some spare time.


Being as you're picking on Gold medal winners today and all.

I wish i could do the same but unfortunately Russia hasn't won any.

Going by your theory as a hockey fan i can just write Russia off going into next year based on their results the last 3 olympics, since they obviously can't win the big games on the biggest stage.
And the world champs aren't the biggest stage in case that has bypassed you.


I stand by what i've said in your Russian Roster thread, it seems that some of you guys have let two one goal games in the "B" world championships go to your swelled head.


The nerve of you guys, like you can't be beat.

what arrogance, and i thought Canadian fans were bad.

yep, we'll see you guys next year.

Siberian 08-08-2009 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by espo (Post 20700609)
They aren't better up front, just better on the wings. Centres after Malkin Canada has Russia from first line to fourth, and those 3rd and fourth are going to come into play,especially when Richards starts banging Evgeni around, which he is going to do, just watch.

And the 1 and 2? Crosby and Getzlaf, who i more then feel comfortable putting up against Malkin and Dats any day of the week.

You sit down 10 hockey fans and 5 will prefer our 1-2 combo better then yours, so where does Russia grade out better there?

You have us on the wings and nowwhere else, period.

Long in the tooth on defense? I don't know why you say that, only Pronger and Neidermayer are up there with what we'll bring and from what i saw last year they are still both good enough to give Russia lot's of problems, especially Niedermayer, Bykov would love to have him if he were Russian. He would waltz on to any top six on Team Russia. In case you've been watching too many kHL games the guy still has wings for ankles, he can outskate any Russian d-man you'll bring even at 38.

The only thing i worry about Neidermayer is him getting injured during the regular season, but i can say that about any player who is olympic bound for any team.


and like i said in another thread, i don't know what you'll do with a Phaneuf-Weber pairing on the PK, i doubt super defense selke man Datsyuk is blocking all those shots unless he wants to be half dead by the 3rd period. Good luck Russia, you're going to need it.

I'll give you the team thing, though i don't think thats a garuntee until the games are played, you get no points for paper with me.

As for our "team", 2006 isn't that far back,you make it sound like 1806.I seem to remember taking home the big prize, on the big ice, in front of hostile fans, right in your guys backyard yes?.Think a Steve Yzerman led team isn't going to be at least capable of playing a team game if they get their **** together? And if they do that with the talent they have, you guys are in trouble, don't think you're not.

Who do you think Canada is anyway? some hockey novices? Like we don't know how to play a team hockey game?.

That was almost an insult IMO.

You wouldn't catch me saying crap like that about Russia i can tell you that, what could you possibly have been thinking when you wrote that?

amazing, you would think we have earned that respect at the least, i know Russia has over here with anyone that has half a clue.

As for the individual awards winners you mentioned, give me another year and i'll give you other winners, and they won't be Russian.Thats all cyclical, you don't get any paper points with me for that either.


so yeah, we'll see sentinel. You sure don't have it won in August 2009 I know that.

You're crazy to assume you do, and on questionable reasoning at that. To me and many others they are nothing but premature premises.

Crosby and Getzlaf over Datsyuk and Malkin? That's crazy in my book. Malkin is a little better than Crosby and Datsyuk is better than Getzlaf. Richards banging Malkin, don't make me laugh. I don't think you know a lot about the international hockey of tat level - hitting is not that significant whan you have the fastest hockey you can get. Watch the last finals, the pace was so high that hitting was out of place. Russia's first goal on 08 final came because someone wanted to nail Ovechkin instead of taking the puck away. It's a different game, not your typical Flyers - Pens game where the overall pace is two notches below.

Sentinel 08-08-2009 10:51 AM

You know, espo, I'm truly starting to wonder how old you are. The way you write is just so juvenile, it's unreal.

We are only comparing Russia and Canada in this thread. And every time but once these two teams met in recent memory, Canada lost.

Award winners change, that's right (with Datsyuk remaining a Selke winner, and Ovie getting Maurice Richards). But we're talking PLAYERS IN THEIR PRIME, RIGHT NOW. Right now, Russian superstars are better than Canadian.

As far as people taking Getzlaf over Datsyuk: in Anaheim, maybe. There is a reason why Datsyuk was nominated for Hart, not Getzlaf. In fact, 2 of 3 Hart nominees were Russian Centers, and you're talking about us being weaker in the center? Whatever.

If Malkin plays against Crosby, I doubt we will hear from The Kid again. Zetterberg ate him up in the PO Finals, and Malkin is even better.

Overall, dude, I suggest you tone it down with insults.

espo* 08-08-2009 11:35 AM

In your opinion.

others have different opinions, you fail to see that.

Cmon sentinel, Malkin-Dats and Crosby-Getzlaf, you think there is a lot to choose from there?

Really?

And here i thought you watched a lot of Hockey.

Silly me.

I guess that explains a lot for me though, thanks for tipping me off on the problem i seem to be having with a few of you guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siberian (Post 20702540)
Crosby and Getzlaf over Datsyuk and Malkin? That's crazy in my book. Malkin is a little better than Crosby and Datsyuk is better than Getzlaf. Richards banging Malkin, don't make me laugh. I don't think you know a lot about the international hockey of tat level - hitting is not that significant whan you have the fastest hockey you can get. Watch the last finals, the pace was so high that hitting was out of place. Russia's first goal on 08 final came because someone wanted to nail Ovechkin instead of taking the puck away. It's a different game, not your typical Flyers - Pens game where the overall pace is two notches below.


espo* 08-08-2009 11:47 AM

It's juvenile to see that on paper and in reality Canada and others can beat you?

you make it sound like you can't be beat and others should be ashamed to even consider the possibility.

The only one who sounds juvenile, and uniformed may i add, is you and others that think like you.

talk about being full of ****.

All you do is bring up your opinions and last olympics as some sort of facts, facts that i don't even see as being very relevant considering what we all know was Russias fate at the last 3 olympics.And yes, i consider silver and bronze a failure, you should too.

Since you say Russia is so great you would think silver/bronze is beneath you right? I know what silver and bronze means, somebody whipped your ass.

don't forget that.

I mean all this crap about hart trophy winners and all makes me laugh, just as you can bring that out i can bring out the fact that the guy you rate below Ovechkin and Malkin handed AO his ass to him in the biggest game each of them has ever lined up for this past playoffs. Think Crosby isn't battle tested?


See, i can twist that stuff to make Canada look astounding just as easily as you are doing with Russia.

Like i said, i can't believe the arrogance, it's like you've already won without playing a game.

And then you have the nerve to say other fans can't question it.

where do you guys get the ego anyway?

Oh, and by the way, the only one who seems to be giving insults and lacks proper respect for their opponents here is you.


I mean, you practically said Canada doesn't know how to build winning Hockey teams. Talk about disrespect.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentinel (Post 20702610)
You know, espo, I'm truly starting to wonder how old you are. The way you write is just so juvenile, it's unreal.

We are only comparing Russia and Canada in this thread. And every time but once these two teams met in recent memory, Canada lost.

Award winners change, that's right (with Datsyuk remaining a Selke winner, and Ovie getting Maurice Richards). But we're talking PLAYERS IN THEIR PRIME, RIGHT NOW. Right now, Russian superstars are better than Canadian.

As far as people taking Getzlaf over Datsyuk: in Anaheim, maybe. There is a reason why Datsyuk was nominated for Hart, not Getzlaf. In fact, 2 of 3 Hart nominees were Russian Centers, and you're talking about us being weaker in the center? Whatever.

If Malkin plays against Crosby, I doubt we will hear from The Kid again. Zetterberg ate him up in the PO Finals, and Malkin is even better.

Overall, dude, I suggest you tone it down with insults.


Sentinel 08-08-2009 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by espo (Post 20702927)
you make it sound like you can't be beat and others should be ashamed to even consider the possibility.

"I make it sound?" Are you putting words into other people's mouths again? That's juvenile.

Quote:

The only one who sounds juvenile, and uniformed may i add, is you and others that think like you.
Did you mean "uninformed"? :)

Quote:

All you do is bring up your opinions and last olympics as some sort of facts, facts that i don't even see as being very relevant considering what we all know was Russias fate at the last 3 olympics.
Our OPINIONS? How dense are you? Malkin and Dats are both Hart nominees, and Crosby and Getzlaf aren't -- IT'S A FACT. Crosby was eaten up by Zett, and Malkin wasn't -- IT'S A FACT. Russia beat Canada every time they've met in the past few years and finished higher than Canada in 2 out of 3 Olympics -- IT'S A FACT.

Quote:

I mean all this crap about hart trophy winners and all makes me laugh, just as you can bring that out i can bring out the fact that the guy you rate below Ovechkin and Malkin handed AO his ass to him in the biggest game each of them has ever lined up for this past playoffs.
You're comparing apples and oranges. We're talking about CENTERS. Crosby did not beat Ovechkin, they never played face-to-face positionally. Penguins beat Capitals. "Crap about Hart winners" makes you laugh? Good for you. Hockey world ranks them. Crosby + Getzlaf are not among the TOP 3 PLAYERS IN 2009. Malkin + Datsyuk ARE. Malkin + Dats >> Crosby + Getz. IT'S A FACT.

This, of course, doesn't mean this is the way it's going to be in the 09-10 season or in the Olympics, but right now: IT'S A DAMN FACT.

Quote:

See, i can twist that stuff to make Canada look astounding just as easily as you are doing with Russia.
Not even remotely. You have to try harder. It wasn't even Crosby's Stanley Cup PO. Malkin and US defense did all the work in the finals.

Quote:

Like i said, i can't believe the arrogance, it's like you've already won without playing a game.
Would you please quote me, where I said that? Until then, go back to watching MuchMusic. :shakehead

espo* 08-08-2009 12:25 PM

Are you on with the juvenile thing again?

Read your last post for God's sake.

You're in a dream world, trying to make your opinions come off as gospel.

Can't believe anyone with two cents takes that jazz seriously.

Sentinel says so and so is better so we should all just lay down and agree it is.

I can't wait to play you guys , i wish it was February 2010 right now.

espo* 08-08-2009 12:36 PM

Anyway, i'm through with this for about 2-3 hours.

I'm going to the pub to drink some booze.

I suggest you do the same sentinel.

Siberian 08-08-2009 01:06 PM

Well, I guess that deserves a poll, doesn't it. http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=670876

Sentinel 08-08-2009 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by espo (Post 20703207)
You're in a dream world, trying to make your opinions come off as gospel.

WHERE? Dude, I have only listed FACTS. Do you understand? Show me one FACT to the contrary if you can!

Anyway, I'm not wasting my time on you anymore.

espo* 08-08-2009 04:46 PM

Facts, what facts?


your facts and thats about it.


geez, you think what you are saying are facts?


I absolutely can't wait to play you guys.


I think we can take you down.

espo* 08-08-2009 05:44 PM

ah, you cant listen to all these hf guys.

You'll get about every Russian poster thinking it's his God given duty to vote for Malkin and Dats with most Canadian fans thinking only an idiot would think it's not close and couldn't be bothered to vote.

I mean, Canadian fans are smart enough to know it's close.

I should be able to say the same thing about you, but it doesn't seem like i can.


When do we play you guys again by the way?

OTE=Siberian;20703499]Well, I guess that deserves a poll, doesn't it. http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=670876[/QUOTE]


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