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HF Article 08-22-2009 09:15 AM

Coyotes Top 20 prospects, Fall 2009
 
Oliver Ekman-Larsson takes over the top spot on the Coyotes Top 20 prospects list.

More...

teddygmr 08-22-2009 10:30 AM

Interesting read but Goncharov should be no lower than 3rd!

The Fuhr* 08-22-2009 11:01 AM

Goncharov is much to low
Should be 8.0B and rated at the top.

THN had him the 21th best prospect (5th best defenseman) back in March for their future watch.

Dudes going to be amazing.

Pentothal 08-22-2009 11:07 AM

I too was surprised to see Goncharov that low. Admittedly I've only seen him at the WJCs but he looked amazing there.

zz 08-22-2009 11:17 AM

Why is Tikhonov considered a prospect but Turris isn't ? They played the same number of games last year, 61 and 63 respectively, and Tikhonov was actually injured. He's probably have played a full season otherwise, like Boedker.

What are the rules to determine prospects?

thrillhous 08-22-2009 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz (Post 20846802)
Why is Tikhonov considered a prospect but Turris isn't ? They played the same number of games last year, 61 and 63 respectively, and Tikhonov was actually injured. He's probably have played a full season otherwise, like Boedker.

What are the rules to determine prospects?

The magic number is 65, so that is confusing. I assumed Turris had played more games than that... Can someone explain?

Agreed that Goncharov should be higher. I would do the following assuming Turris is still a prospect:

1. Turris
2. OEL
3. Goncharov
4. Maclean
5. Tikhonov

mouser 08-22-2009 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz (Post 20846802)
Why is Tikhonov considered a prospect but Turris isn't ? They played the same number of games last year, 61 and 63 respectively, and Tikhonov was actually injured. He's probably have played a full season otherwise, like Boedker.

What are the rules to determine prospects?

It's 65 games. Don't forget that Turris played the final 3 games of 07-08, so he has 66 career NHL games now.

zz 08-22-2009 01:06 PM

Thx. Didn't know about the '65 games played' number.

thrillhous 08-22-2009 02:07 PM

Forgot about those 3 games. Thanks mouser.

ctwin22 08-22-2009 02:12 PM

Count me in the group that thinks Goncharov is rated to low...for my money and since I would not rate Tiki (after 4 games he'll be off so just remove him now)

OEL
Goncharov
Summers
McLean
Ahnelov
Porter
Brown

JacksonGalaxy 08-22-2009 02:53 PM

Thanks for all the feedback. I suppose I didn't do too bad for a first timer if Goncharov is the only major issue.

I saw him in the WJC too and came away very impressed. But other than that I haven't seen him play much, and I'm more familiar with the guys in front of him. I think the main reason he's down that low is because most of the guys in front of him are really close to NHL jobs. Goncharov has the upside -- maybe even more than the guys in front of him, but he's got to get to North America eventually. I've read that he wants to come over but until he does, I'm sure if I could put him in the top 3 (among this crop, anyway).

But I'll keep a close eye on him this season. It's a big year for a lot of the defensemen. Ahnelov needs to stay healthy so he can move up to the next level, Summers needs to step it up and perform like a first round pick who's staying for a senior season, and Ross needs to make some noise in the AHL or else he might be buried on the depth chart. If Goncharov remains a solid player in the KHL he could end up overtaking any one of those guys.

Thanks again guys, keep it coming.

Kaizen 08-22-2009 03:06 PM

Stone appears to be a little low as well.

It'll be a telling year for him along with some of the other d-men. He'll play an even bigger role on a Calgary team that dominated last year.

Gwyddbwyll 08-22-2009 03:06 PM

Isnt Justin Bernhardt eligible? I'd put him on that list for sure. A real dark horse for me.

Nice to have blueline depth, but hard to rank them. I'd personally say Ahnelov and Ross are too high. Stone has had a great year and shouldnt be below someone like Staal who has shown no development.

JacksonGalaxy 08-22-2009 03:10 PM

Bernhardt is eligible and I was really torn on him or Justin Weller at #20. He looks to have exploded as an overager, but it's pretty common for overage players to have huge years and then do relatively little in the pros. I'll be watching out for him in San Antonio this year, I agree he could be a dark horse.

I'm working on getting Bernhardt (and Jeff May) added to the "other notables" section.

Gwyddbwyll 08-22-2009 03:18 PM

Yeah I think its a no-win with Staal's rank. If he isnt ranked, people will notice that as well and his family are late-developers. He's just leaving it reallly late.

JawandaPuck 08-22-2009 04:09 PM

Elite Prospects
  1. 1. Oliver Ekman-Larsson, D 8.5C
  2. 9. Maxim Goncharov, D 7.0D

    Very Good Prospects
  3. 2. Viktor Tikhonov, C 7.5B
  4. 3. Brett MacLean, LW 7.5C
  5. 13. Mike Lee, G 7.0D
  6. 15. Michael Stone, D 6.5D

    Very Good but Disappointing
  7. 7. Nick Ross, D 7.0C
  8. 12. Jared Staal, RW 6.5C

    Middle of the Road
  9. 5. Kevin Porter, C 7.0B
  10. 11. Chris Brown, LW 6.5C
  11. 10. Sami Lepisto, D 6.5B
  12. 4. Jonas Ahnelov, D 7.0B
  13. 6. Chris Summers, D 7.0C
  14. 14. David Schlemko, D 6.5C
  15. 18. Jordan Szwarz, RW 6.0C
  16. 17. Vladimir Ruzicka, C 6.5D
  17. 8. Chad Kolarik, RW 6.5B

    The Rest
  18. 16. Colin Long, C 6.0C
  19. 19. Brett Hextall, C 6.0C
  20. 20. Justin Weller, D 6.0D
  21. N/A Mathieu Brodeur, D 6.0D

Overall, the future looks bright for the organization in terms of the pipeline. When you consider the youth already with the big club, together with this group, the team will challenge in the playoffs in a couple years.

gra 08-22-2009 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JawandaPuck (Post 20848759)
Elite Prospects
  1. 1. Oliver Ekman-Larsson, D 8.5C
  2. 9. Maxim Goncharov, D 7.0D

    Very Good Prospects
  3. 3. Brett MacLean, LW 7.5C
  4. 13. Mike Lee, G 7.0D
  5. 15. Michael Stone, D 6.5D

    Very Good but Dissapointing
  6. 7. Nick Ross, D 7.0C
  7. 12. Jared Staal, RW 6.5C

    Middle of the Road
  8. 2. Viktor Tikhonov, C 7.5B
  9. 5. Kevin Porter, C 7.0B
  10. 11. Chris Brown, LW 6.5C
  11. 10. Sami Lepisto, D 6.5B
  12. 4. Jonas Ahnelov, D 7.0B
  13. 6. Chris Summers, D 7.0C
  14. 14. David Schlemko, D 6.5C
  15. 18. Jordan Szwarz, RW 6.0C
  16. 17. Vladimir Ruzicka, C 6.5D
  17. 8. Chad Kolarik, RW 6.5B

    The Rest
  18. 16. Colin Long, C 6.0C
  19. 19. Brett Hextall, C 6.0C
  20. 20. Justin Weller, D 6.0D

Overall, the future looks bright for the organization in terms of the pipeline. When you consider the youth already with the big club, together with this group, the team will challenge in the playoffs in a couple years.

Thanks for the breakdown! Although I don't think I would put #41 down as middle of the road. Based on what I saw attending the games last season VT has the foundation down to have a long NHL career with most of his skills at the at the big league level. Its a matter of VT getting his legs developed more and he should be set.

He's a good defensive player on offense but there were some moments where if he had the speed he would be unstoppable on the breakaways and scoring more than 8 goals a season by crashing to the net more.
Posted via Mobile Device

gra 08-22-2009 04:47 PM

I'm sorry I meant a defensive minded offenseman.
Posted via Mobile Device

dafranchz 08-22-2009 05:50 PM

Pretty good out of the gate. Goncho higher next time...no worries.

rt 08-22-2009 07:49 PM

I think Ahnelov is a little high. He's expected to be a bottom pairing defenseman in the NHL, no? I like guys like Porter, Summers, and Goncharov more, personally. Though, I'm not exactly sure what is considered when making these lists.

k1llua 08-22-2009 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rt (Post 20849888)
I think Ahnelov is a little high. He's expected to be a bottom pairing defenseman in the NHL, no? I like guys like Porter, Summers, and Goncharov more, personally. Though, I'm not exactly sure what is considered when making these lists.

I think he's got at least a shot at being a borderline top 4 guy. He's probably a lock to be a bottom pairing guy, but he's got the right blend of defensive ability and physicality to be a defensive minded #4 that forces forward to keep their heads up and think before they cross the blueline. That's if everything goes right.

SniperHF 08-22-2009 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1llua (Post 20850849)
I think he's got at least a shot at being a borderline top 4 guy. He's probably a lock to be a bottom pairing guy, but he's got the right blend of defensive ability and physicality to be a defensive minded #4 that forces forward to keep their heads up and think before they cross the blueline. That's if everything goes right.

I think one thing to remember is that a guy like Ahnelov who is likely to be a bottom six D, could still have a decent run where he is a #4 or even a #3 for a few years. Bottom pairing players have a 'peak' too.

Colt.45Orr 08-23-2009 01:11 AM

Goncharov is way too low. To penalize him for still being in Russia is silly, unless you want to ding OEL for still being over in Europe too.

The rest was good, but if I had editing powers I would go in and bump him up to 1 or 2, rather than let the list sit like that for months.

JawandaPuck 08-23-2009 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArizonaPride (Post 20848969)
Thanks for the breakdown! Although I don't think I would put #41 down as middle of the road. Based on what I saw attending the games last season VT has the foundation down to have a long NHL career with most of his skills at the at the big league level. Its a matter of VT getting his legs developed more and he should be set.

He's a good defensive player on offense but there were some moments where if he had the speed he would be unstoppable on the breakaways and scoring more than 8 goals a season by crashing to the net more.
Posted via Mobile Device


On second thought, you're right -- I was being a bit too harsh with VT's ranking. I've now bumped him up on my list.

RR 08-23-2009 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JawandaPuck (Post 20851970)
On second thought, you're right -- I was being a bit too harsh with VT's ranking. I've now bumped him up on my list.

I'm actually glad someone placed VT in the middle as that is exactly where he belongs, and why it is so important to target players like Upshall, Lombardi, Korpikoski and Vrbata. Players like that make VT better. Takes the pressure off and let's him develop. Same thing for kids like Turris and Boedker who project as top six players, but get some cover from younger vets who are just entering their prime.

When Maloney dealt Sjostrom, LeNeveau and Gratton for Marcel Hossa and Montoya my first thought was, WTF? Yet Montoya is the last-man-standing in that deal, and he may still pan out as a quality #1A or #2 NHL goalie. He was never going to unseat Lundqvist, but he should have caught Bryz's attention down the stretch last year.

And that seems to be Maloney's approach: bring in former 1st-rounders and younger vets who can push the old guys to show they deserve to keep a job; and show the young guys that hard work and perseverance can lead to success in the NHL.

A 1st-rounder who hasn't achieved star status by age 21 isn't a failure. That notion is too prevalent amongst fans and organizations. Maloney seems to get that and is willing to roll the dice and acquire former 1st-rounders who didn't pan out for the organizations that drafted them. Yet he doesn't overpay. (OK, maybe he overpaid for Hale a bit, a bit, just a bit ;) ).


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