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HF Article 08-24-2009 09:45 PM

Predators Top 20 prospects, Fall 2009
 
Colin Wilson remains atop the Predators Top 20 list.

More...

cjerina 08-24-2009 10:22 PM

I'd rate Laakso above Dietrich myself, although his injury last year may have affected Teemu's ranking. Otherwise, the rankings seem pretty accurate from the players Im familiar with in Milwaukee

SpinTheBlackCircle 08-24-2009 10:33 PM

Ryan is better than Thang....

Webersmashpuck 08-24-2009 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjerina (Post 20868621)
I'd rate Laakso above Dietrich myself, although his injury last year may have affected Teemu's ranking. Otherwise, the rankings seem pretty accurate from the players Im familiar with in Milwaukee

The "Other Notables" are in alphabetical order, so its not really a ranking of them.
The debate could be made that Laakso should be in the top 20, and I would probably put him at 21st.

I could have sworn Sjodin and Snellmans rights have expired.

But overall its a great list a few things I can see going either way.

worstfaceoffmanever 08-24-2009 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjerina (Post 20868621)
I'd rate Laakso above Dietrich myself, although his injury last year may have affected Teemu's ranking. Otherwise, the rankings seem pretty accurate from the players Im familiar with in Milwaukee

The "other notables" are listed in alphabetical order. It's the only way Stanislav Balan would be at the top of any list.

I would have put Lääkso ahead of Pihlström and probably up ahead of Geoffrion. I like what I've seen, even if he isn't lighting things up offensively. Although, keep in mind, this same website rated Rinne a 6.0C and said that "his window is closing."

barrytrotzsneck 08-25-2009 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild GM (Post 20868778)
Ryan is better than Thang....

What makes you say so? Ryan seems like a pretty average grinder, whereas Thang has demonstrated some nice scoring touch at the NCAA level.

worstfaceoffmanever 08-25-2009 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck (Post 20871915)
What makes you say so? Ryan seems like a pretty average grinder, whereas Thang has demonstrated some nice scoring touch at the NCAA level.

Um, Ryan had more points than Thang last year...

cjerina 08-25-2009 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck (Post 20868796)
The "Other Notables" are in alphabetical order, so its not really a ranking of them.

I believe this: :facepalm: is in order for myself.

Thanks guys :laugh:

barrytrotzsneck 08-25-2009 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever (Post 20872566)
Um, Ryan had more points than Thang last year...

Thang was also injured.

Ryan had 2 more goals, while playing 6 more games. A better indicator might be the previous year, when Thang scored 8 more goals in equal games.

SpinTheBlackCircle 08-25-2009 11:07 AM

Thang is 22. Ryan is 20.

barrytrotzsneck 08-25-2009 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild GM (Post 20872890)
Thang is 22. Ryan is 20.

And will be 21 in a month....Thang is a year and a half older. It's not like we're talking about a senior and a freshman.

worstfaceoffmanever 08-25-2009 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck (Post 20872616)
Thang was also injured.

Ryan had 2 more goals, while playing 6 more games. A better indicator might be the previous year, when Thang scored 8 more goals in equal games.

While that may be true, you're also overlooking that last year was Ryan's freshman year, and that Thang has regressed offensively since his outstanding freshman campaign:

Freshman year: 20 goals in 42 games
Sophomore year: 18 goals in 47 games
Junior year: 12 goals in 40 games (projected; assuming production pace held steady during the time he missed with injury)

That's a pretty significant drop in production, and when you consider he had only four points against NCAA tournament teams this season, it looks even worse.

Thang certainly has the hustle, grit, and two-way ability to play in the NHL, but his offensive prowess can justifiably be called into question. If Ryan continues to produce south of the 30 point mark in his junior year, the same can be done with him.

Seth Lake 08-25-2009 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever (Post 20873685)
While that may be true, you're also overlooking that last year was Ryan's freshman year, and that Thang has regressed offensively since his outstanding freshman campaign:

Freshman year: 20 goals in 42 games
Sophomore year: 18 goals in 47 games
Junior year: 12 goals in 40 games (projected; assuming production pace held steady during the time he missed with injury)

That's a pretty significant drop in production, and when you consider he had only four points against NCAA tournament teams this season, it looks even worse.

Thang certainly has the hustle, grit, and two-way ability to play in the NHL, but his offensive prowess can justifiably be called into question. If Ryan continues to produce south of the 30 point mark in his junior year, the same can be done with him.

Ben Ryan is entering his junior season, he is only one class behind Thang.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=94021

That said, I agree that Thang's offensive potential at the NHL level has to be questioned. He is projected as a two-way winger that is solid in his own end. With his quick release and solid snapshot, Thang will need a playmaker on his line to really rack up any type of points.

barrytrotzsneck 08-25-2009 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLake (Post 20874455)
Ben Ryan is entering his junior season, he is only one class behind Thang.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=94021

That said, I agree that Thang's offensive potential at the NHL level has to be questioned. He is projected as a two-way winger that is solid in his own end. With his quick release and solid snapshot, Thang will need a playmaker on his line to really rack up any type of points.

To clarify, I don't think either of them will be any more than a Vernon Fiddler type player in the NHL, if they make it at all. Just saying I like Thang as a prospect better than Ryan ;)

worstfaceoffmanever 08-25-2009 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLake (Post 20874455)
Ben Ryan is entering his junior season, he is only one class behind Thang.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=94021

That said, I agree that Thang's offensive potential at the NHL level has to be questioned. He is projected as a two-way winger that is solid in his own end. With his quick release and solid snapshot, Thang will need a playmaker on his line to really rack up any type of points.

I should have clarified, I was referring to the previous season, 2007-08, which was Ryan's freshman year and Thang's sophomore year (the year that BTN had brought into the subject).

Thang and Ryan actually have complementary skill sets, and will probably spend some time together next season on the power play and possibly be even strength line mates for much of the year.

Tony Piscotta 08-25-2009 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck (Post 20868796)

I could have sworn Sjodin and Snellmans rights have expired.

But overall its a great list a few things I can see going either way.

Under the old IIHF transfer agreement they would have after two years. Since there is no agreement in place anymore, they are pretty much subject to the "defected" players rules that were previously in place. I believe it's four years since they were drafted with an age limit (but I'm not sure what it is).

worstfaceoffmanever 08-25-2009 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck (Post 20868796)
I could have sworn Sjodin and Snellmans rights have expired.

We did release Sjödin, but we've held on to Snellman's rights. No clue why, they both tried the WHL and failed, and likely have no intention of coming back across the pond.

Pentothal 08-25-2009 04:17 PM

Quote:

This past May, Wilson was the only non-NHL player selected to represent the US at the IIHF World Championships in Sweden.
Classic mistake, but the World Championships were held in Switzerland not Sweden.

worstfaceoffmanever 08-25-2009 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pentothal (Post 20876303)
Classic mistake, but the World Championships were held in Switzerland not Sweden.

Another mistake: Robert Esche, who played for SKA St. Petersburg last year, was the team's starting goalie.

JawandaPuck 08-25-2009 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HF Article (Post 20868135)
Colin Wilson remains atop the Predators Top 20 list.

More...


Synopsis: If one was to graph the talent level of the Pred's pipeline, it would literally be a "hockey stick" chart, ie, some high-end top prospects (the shaft), followed by the next group which incurs a significant talent dip (the blade), and then finally, the last group which barely even registers.
Elite Prospects
  1. 1. Colin Wilson, C
  2. 2. Chet Pickard, G
  3. 3. Jon Blum, D
  4. 4. Ryan Ellis, D

    Good Prospects
  5. 5. Cody Franson, D
  6. 6. Zach Budish, RW
  7. 7. Charles-Olivier Roussel, D
  8. 15. Taylor Beck, LW
  9. NR. Michael Latta, F
  10. 10. Cal O'Reilly, C
  11. 12. Mark Dekanich, G

    The BIG Drop-off
  12. 8. Ryan Jones, RW
  13. 9. Patric Hornqvist, RW
  14. 11. Roman Josi, D
  15. 13. Nick Spaling, C
  16. 14. Mike Santorelli, RW
  17. 16. Alexander Sulzer, D
  18. 17. Blake Geoffrion, LW
  19. 18. Ryan Thang, LW
  20. 19. Anders Lindback, G
  21. 20. Antti Pihlstrom, LW

braindead 08-25-2009 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JawandaPuck (Post 20877470)
Synopsis: If one was to graph the talent level of the Pred's pipeline, it would literally be a "hockey stick" chart, ie, some high-end top prospects (the shaft), followed by the next group which incurs a significant talent dip (the blade), and then finally, the last group which barely even registers.
Elite Prospects
  1. 1. Colin Wilson, C
  2. 2. Chet Pickard, G
  3. 3. Jon Blum, D
  4. 4. Ryan Ellis, D

    Good Prospects
  5. 5. Cody Franson, D
  6. 6. Zach Budish, RW
  7. 7. Charles-Olivier Roussel, D
  8. 15. Taylor Beck, LW
  9. NR. Michael Latta, F
  10. 12. Mark Dekanich, G

    The BIG Drop-off
  11. 10. Cal O'Reilly, C
  12. 8. Ryan Jones, RW
  13. 9. Patric Hornqvist, RW
  14. 11. Roman Josi, D
  15. 13. Nick Spaling, C
  16. 14. Mike Santorelli, RW
  17. 16. Alexander Sulzer, D
  18. 17. Blake Geoffrion, LW
  19. 18. Ryan Thang, LW
  20. 19. Anders Lindback, G
  21. 20. Antti Pihlstrom, LW

Not sure I really agree with this analysis particularly on the BIG drop-off. It feels like a list that is based on where they were drafted rather than where they look like they may project out over time. Pekka Rinne and Martin Erat probably would have been in the "bad" group at one point and Ed Hill (obscure reference) and Brian Finley would have been listed higher than, say, Karlis Skrastins.

Anyway, in the bad group, my perception is that you have at least a handful that are potential long-term nhl players, which would seem to put them at least in the mid category (Jones, Sulzer, Spaling and Lindback would be at the top of my list). It's too early to say but I think Budish and Roussel have real potential to be in the top group, which I would have said even before the Preds selected them.

JawandaPuck 08-25-2009 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead (Post 20877742)
Not sure I really agree with this analysis particularly on the BIG drop-off. It feels like a list that is based on where they were drafted rather than where they look like they may project out over time. Pekka Rinne and Martin Erat probably would have been in the "bad" group at one point and Ed Hill (obscure reference) and Brian Finley would have been listed higher than, say, Karlis Skrastins.

Anyway, in the bad group, my perception is that you have at least a handful that are potential long-term nhl players, which would seem to put them at least in the mid category (Jones, Sulzer, Spaling and Lindback would be at the top of my list). It's too early to say but I think Budish and Roussel have real potential to be in the top group, which I would have said even before the Preds selected them.


Budish and Roussel are good prospects with the potential to be deemed very good prospects -- lets see how they do this coming season. I expect good things. And I agree with you on Spaling...could move up on my own list next season. Nevertheless, the talent level is pretty obscure in that last group.

lstcyr 08-26-2009 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JawandaPuck (Post 20877812)
Nevertheless, the talent level is pretty obscure in that last group.


Yikes! Four of the players in that group I expect to be part of the roster for this year.

OpenWheel 08-26-2009 01:44 PM

THIS: "Nevertheless, the talent level is pretty obscure in that last group."

and THIS:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstcyr (Post 20883955)
Yikes! Four of the players in that group I expect to be part of the roster for this year.

are fully compatible statements when you're a Preds fan used to the workings of David Poile. :D

But anyway, I don't agree with that grouping much at all. I think we're down on high end forwards. But a guy like Jones talent isn't "obscure". He's a legitimate NHLer, which isn't bad. Several other legitimate NHLers in that third group. I can't see raving about Ellis and having Sulzer in the obscure category. When Sulzer is NHL ready and who knows if Ellis ever will be.

I think we're thin on elite talent to replace Arnott, Dumont, and Sullivan, but lots of talent on defense, and in goal. And if Arnott, Sullivan, and Dumont can play well for another year or two, maybe some front line forward talent in addition to Wilson (need to count on him...) will surface. Maybe Budish, but having to pin hopes on a high schooler is an example of being thin on high end talent. We have plenty of third line talent. O'Reilly, Jones, Ward, Spaling, Santorelli. And some of these and others on the list may prove to may have solid second line talent. Sure, none are looked on as elite, but there are always some surprises as to who's game translates to the NHL level without a lot of drop off even when they are supposedly lacking some area such as speed.

So it's not all grim. I think this years team will be good, if the top line stays healthy and plays near their best.

Jarnberg 08-26-2009 07:13 PM

Wow, if that group is considered a "big drop off", then our future is very, very bright.


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