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-   -   Proposal: Van-Pit (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=677668)

Dugray 09-03-2009 10:06 PM

Van-Pit
 
I'm totally going to get roasted for this, but I think it improves both teams.

To Pit:
K. Bieksa
C. Schneider
2011 2nd rounder

To Van:
J. Staal

Pittsburgh gets a solid defenseman who can help Gonchar carry the offensive load on the backend. They get a great goalie prospect to help backup and continue to push Fleury and a draft pick in what people are saying is a very deep draft in 2011.

Vancouver gets a young 2nd line center to play with R. Kesler. I believe Kesler and Staal would make a formidable line regardless of who the third wheel is and would be adept at both creating offense with their size, skill and speed, but at the same time be decimating to other teams offenses since both are great at shutting other players down.

CPZ 09-03-2009 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dugray (Post 20975822)
I'm totally going to get roasted for this, but I think it improves both teams.

To Pit:
K. Bieksa
C. Schneider
2011 2nd rounder

To Van:
J. Staal

Pittsburgh gets a solid defenseman who can help Gonchar carry the offensive load on the backend. They get a great goalie prospect to help backup and continue to push Fleury and a draft pick in what people are saying is a very deep draft in 2011.

Vancouver gets a young 2nd line center to play with R. Kesler. I believe Kesler and Staal would make a formidable line regardless of who the third wheel is and would be adept at both creating offense with their size, skill and speed, but at the same time be decimating to other teams offenses since both are great at shutting other players down.

Really?:shakehead I am not trying to be a doosh but really?:help:

eklunds source 09-03-2009 10:15 PM

From Canucks, no thanks. Too much for 1 player who is just like Kesler but not as good defensively, with "offensive potential" instead of actually putting up 50+ pts.

Leaves the Canucks with ZERO goaltending depth behind Luongo (what happens if he gets hurt again?), and we have to replace a gritty 45pt defenseman signed to a very reasonable deal.


That package isn't enough for Staal, and Staal isn't enough for that package.

Ronaldo 09-03-2009 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dugray (Post 20975822)
I'm totally going to get roasted for this, but I think it improves both teams.

To Pit:
K. Bieksa
C. Schneider
2011 2nd rounder

To Van:
J. Staal

Pittsburgh gets a solid defenseman who can help Gonchar carry the offensive load on the backend. They get a great goalie prospect to help backup and continue to push Fleury and a draft pick in what people are saying is a very deep draft in 2011.

Vancouver gets a young 2nd line center to play with R. Kesler. I believe Kesler and Staal would make a formidable line regardless of who the third wheel is and would be adept at both creating offense with their size, skill and speed, but at the same time be decimating to other teams offenses since both are great at shutting other players down.

The scouts are saying the 2011 draft is the worst since 1999.And from a Vancouver pov i wouldn't do this

AK 09-03-2009 10:28 PM

Pass.

Schneider has very little value to either team, as both have great goalies signed long-term. There's no reason for him to be in the deal.

It's basically Bieksa and a 2nd for Staal, which is pretty fair value, but I don't see how it helps the Pens get any better. There's no need to make big changes. They can win with what they have. Gonchar, Orpik, Letang, Eaton, Goligoski and McKee make a solid enough defense.

Doesn't make a ton of sense for the Nucks, either. Their team looks stacked as it stands right now. If they can get under the cap without giving up anything of importance, look out.

Thefalkon 09-03-2009 10:37 PM

I'm pretty sure Flower has the job locked down in Pittsburgh. They have no need for Schneider, and the Canucks don't have a need for Staal. Both teams would pass.

Peter Griffin 09-03-2009 10:39 PM

This doesn't make sense for either team. The Pens have Fleury locked up long term, they aren't going to be interested in Schneider. They also have a bunch of mobile puckmovers and although they could use Bieksa's grit on the back end, it's not a necessity. As for the Canucks, while Staal would be a nice addition, he really doesn't fill a need with Kesler playing a similar style and with Henrik locked down in the #1 spot and Hodgson expected to make strides over the next few seasons.

mcphllp 09-03-2009 10:41 PM

schneider switches with grabner

and

2nd becomes 1st in 2010

i love when posters pull the 2011 bs, just man up and give this years pick up.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 09-03-2009 10:42 PM

No. We don't want to trade Staal, and especially not when a big part of the package is a young goalie that we have about as much use for as Vancouver does.

Schneider's a great prospect, but he'd be a waste here.

CloutierForVezina 09-03-2009 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphllp (Post 20976126)
schneider switches with grabner

and

2nd becomes 1st in 2010

i love when posters pull the 2011 bs, just man up and give this years pick up.

Congratulations. You took a mediocre deal for the canucks and made is significantly worse.

Not to mention that if we give up our first in '10, we don't get to make a selection until the 3rd round. No thanks.

Skelator 786* 09-03-2009 10:46 PM

No thanks. Jordan Staal is overrated by Pittsburgh "fans" and isn't much of an upgrade over Kesler if an upgrade at all. And he comes with a 4 million dollar price tag.

mcphllp 09-03-2009 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina (Post 20976154)
Congratulations. You took a mediocre deal for the canucks and made is significantly worse.

Not to mention that if we give up our first in '10, we don't get to make a selection until the 3rd round. No thanks.

ok. no staal for you.

im probably wrong. every deal that does happen is always a surprise to myself and probably everyone on this forum. kubina for exelby and stuart? unpredicted...erhoff and lukowich for 2 bad propects? awful.

ill admit that there are good predictions, like the whitney for kunitz deal was pretty well predicted, we all really have no chance at being gms, but this website lets us pretend

CloutierForVezina 09-03-2009 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphllp (Post 20976214)
ok. no staal for you.

im probably wrong. every deal that does happen is always a surprise to myself and probably everyone on this forum. kubina for exelby and stuart? unpredicted...erhoff and lukowich for 2 bad propects? awful.

ill admit that there are good predictions, like the whitney for kunitz deal was pretty well predicted, we all really have no chance at being gms, but this website lets us pretend

Staal doesn't help this team as much as Bieksa does right now. There's no reason to give away a 1st and a quality prospect to make our team worse in the short term and long term, it simply does not make sense.

mcphllp 09-03-2009 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina (Post 20976248)
Staal doesn't help this team as much as Bieksa does right now. There's no reason to give away a 1st and a quality prospect to make our team worse in the short term and long term, it simply does not make sense.

agree, i think bieksa is great. and if hodgson turns out the way he has been hyped, then you dont need a 2nd line centre. but staal is a good solid player. and ya what i put up is probably too much, but im not a big fan of grabner, huge fan of bieksa though.

just lookin to stir the pot

CloutierForVezina 09-03-2009 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphllp (Post 20976332)
agree, i think bieksa is great. and if hodgson turns out the way he has been hyped, then you dont need a 2nd line centre. but staal is a good solid player. and ya what i put up is probably too much, but im not a big fan of grabner, huge fan of bieksa though.

just lookin to stir the pot

Fair enough, but you have to remember we already have Kesler here who is pretty much the same player as J Staal except a little better defensively with a little less offensive potential. Our 3 centers will already be H. Sedin - Kesler - Hodgson.

One of the few players that I'd look at moving Bieksa for (That isn't totally impossible to get) would probably be Filatov actually. A line of Filatov-Hodgson-Schroeder would be absolutely sick a few years down the line... but I don't know enough about CBJ's defense to know if a deal centered around Bieksa would even make sense for them.

kmillzy5 09-03-2009 11:08 PM

nope..

Dugray 09-03-2009 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina (Post 20976366)
Fair enough, but you have to remember we already have Kesler here who is pretty much the same player as J Staal except a little better defensively with a little less offensive potential. Our 3 centers will already be H. Sedin - Kesler - Hodgson.

One of the few players that I'd look at moving Bieksa for (That isn't totally impossible to get) would probably be Filatov actually. A line of Filatov-Hodgson-Schroeder would be absolutely sick a few years down the line... but I don't know enough about CBJ's defense to know if a deal centered around Bieksa would even make sense for them.

Except that Kesler only started really producing after being switched to the wing with a solid centerman on his line. Kesler is not a 2nd line Center. He is a 2nd line winger though.

chopkins 09-03-2009 11:18 PM

First of all, the Canucks don't need Jordan Staal. We've already got two top 6 centers in H. Sedin and Kesler, and two potential top 6 centers in Hodgson and Schroeder.

Second, the Penguins don't need C. Schneider to "push Fleury". What gives you that idea?

Moore Money 09-03-2009 11:19 PM

I would do that.

Burrows-Staal-Kesler would be a great second line.

Knuts 09-03-2009 11:20 PM

Why the **** would Vancouver want Staal?

We have plenty of possible top 9 centers:
Sedin
Kesler
Wellwood
Hodgson
Demitra
Sundin?

UnderratedBrooks44 09-03-2009 11:20 PM

I concur. Schneider isn't valuable to the Pens much at all and unless the Canucks want to take the slim chance that Staal is a 75 point guy then I don't think it makes sense at all. I love Bieksa though, I think he's exactly what the Pens need.

bdp 09-03-2009 11:21 PM

Awful for Pittsburgh. Vancouver runs away with this so fast.

Saren 09-03-2009 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jano (Post 20976485)
Awful for Pittsburgh. Vancouver runs away with this so fast.

Not at all. Both teams politely decline. Who wins here?

Ludicrous Speed 09-03-2009 11:25 PM

Both teams pass because neither need to do this deal, but I can't believe that Staal is still so overrated that people say Vancouver wins this. They get smoked value-wise.

jdpitt05 09-03-2009 11:33 PM

If Shero didn't trade Staal in the middle of this past season, when 70% of Pens fans were begging for him to be dealt, then it isnt going to happen now. "You cant win a cup with 3 centers making XXX amount of money" is an amusing line that i've heard from numerous posters that i'll look back on and laugh. Simple fact is that we just won the cup with Staal as our 3rd line center and only lost 2 one-dimensional pylons on D (where we upgraded to McKee-Goligoski). Theres no need for Bieksa. And no need to pay the price for a good goalie prospect with a young Fleury locked up long term.


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