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-   -   Kings Article: Lombardi About Frolov, Murray, Bernier & OD... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=680936)

The Judge 09-15-2009 08:58 AM

Lombardi About Frolov, Murray, Bernier & OD...
 
Here's the link guys. Happy reading! :)

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw...,3069813.story

Ziggy Stardust 09-15-2009 01:54 PM

Dean speaks the truth, mostly what everyone here has been saying and expecting out of Frolov any day now. We saw he had Jagr-like control of the puck and strength down low. I think Frolov needs to be the guy on his line who has control of the puck.

Look at the line he was on when he had his most success. He had Demitra on the opposite wing, who is a playmaker, and Conroy, who can also pass, win faceoffs and work hard in the corners.

Hence why it makes sense to have Frolov with Handzus and Simmonds. Handzus can play the front of the net, win draws and get the puck to his wings. Simmonds will make room on the ice for his linemates with his physicality and he can cycle the puck. Fro just needs to maintain control of the puck and be the trigger-man (and sometimes setup man).

northernKing 09-15-2009 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 21106227)
Dean speaks the truth, mostly what everyone here has been saying and expecting out of Frolov any day now. We saw he had Jagr-like control of the puck and strength down low. I think Frolov needs to be the guy on his line who has control of the puck.

Look at the line he was on when he had his most success. He had Demitra on the opposite wing, who is a playmaker, and Conroy, who can also pass, win faceoffs and work hard in the corners.

Hence why it makes sense to have Frolov with Handzus and Simmonds. Handzus can play the front of the net, win draws and get the puck to his wings. Simmonds will make room on the ice for his linemates with his physicality and he can cycle the puck. Fro just needs to maintain control of the puck and be the trigger-man (and sometimes setup man).

But Conroy and Demitra not only were better playmakers than MH and WS but also faster skaters. Frolov needs to be a 1st line winger if he's expected to put up 1st line points!

Bandit 09-15-2009 02:50 PM

"When do you get sick of losing and take responsibility for winning?" Lombardi said. "It's not only how many he scores, when he scores, when you rise to the occasion."

Yeah, good point Dean, because Frolov is all about the meaningless goals to pad his stats.

Bandit 09-15-2009 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 21106227)
Look at the line he was on when he had his most success.

Or perhaps that's what happens when 1/3 of his line (read Derek Armstrong) isn't complete dead weight in the scoring department?

KINGS17 09-15-2009 03:08 PM

Sorry Dean, but Frolov isn't going to get 40 goals with Simmonds and Handzus passing him the puck.

BehindEnemyLines 09-15-2009 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 21107150)
Sorry Dean, but Frolov isn't going to get 40 goals with Simmonds and Handzus passing him the puck.

He'll get 50! :sarcasm:

TonySCV 09-15-2009 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGS17 (Post 21107150)
Sorry Dean, but Frolov isn't going to get 40 goals with Simmonds and Handzus passing him the puck.

Frolov isn't going to score 40 goals when he's taking 2 shots per game on average - I don't care who his linemates are. He's been told for years he needs to shoot more because he has so much success when he does shoot the puck, but it's beating a dead horse at this point. One of many frustrations with Frolov.

- T

JDM 09-15-2009 03:53 PM

The whole point is that regardless of Frolov's linemates, he can score more, if, as Tony said, he shoots more and buckles down EVERY game. If he can score 32 bouncing around lines, taking several games off in the effort department, that you should tell you that his linemates mean very little to Frolov's individual success.

So sick of the "bad linemate" argument. Same useless argument made for Boyle and POS (not that Frolov himself is comparable to either).

Moller looked just as good individually on the 4th line as the 1st. Frolov is a DOMINANT player when he wants to be, and that is point, HE is the guy other players should want to play with, not the other way around.

Gentle Ben Kenobi 09-15-2009 03:59 PM

One of the key to this team: OD has to play less minutes this year. At this stage in his career, He can't log 20 minutes a night.

TonySCV 09-15-2009 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDM (Post 21107781)
So sick of the "bad linemate" argument. Same useless argument made for Boyle and POS.

Agreed. Linemates have nothing to do with my frustrations with Frolov.

Brown played in 3 more games and took 116 more shots than Frolov last season. O'Sullivan (a center) played in 15 fewer games than Frolov yet took 24 more shots.

Frolov's shooting percentage is consistently among the team's best. It hovers around 15-18% every year which is remarkable. He took 19 more shots in 2006-2007 than he did in 2008-2009 and had 11 more points to show for it - that is crazy good.

If he just aimed to increase his shots per game average by a half a shot per game, he'd get to 40 goals easily.

That's what's so frustrating to me as a fan... it wouldn't even take that much more effort from Frolov to get so much more in terms of tangible production, but he won't do it. He's stuck on averaging 2 shots per game and has been through his entire career.

When all these coaches over all these years can't convince a player to do something as simple as taking one more shot every other game, it's just another indication of the frustration the Kings have with Frolov.

- T

sweatypickle 09-15-2009 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit (Post 21106904)
"When do you get sick of losing and take responsibility for winning?" Lombardi said. "It's not only how many he scores, when he scores, when you rise to the occasion."

Yeah, good point Dean, because Frolov is all about the meaningless goals to pad his stats.

don't turn this into a Cammalleri thread...;)

Goallum 09-15-2009 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySCV (Post 21108094)
Agreed. Linemates have nothing to do with my frustrations with Frolov.

Brown played in 3 more games and took 116 more shots than Frolov last season. O'Sullivan (a center) played in 15 fewer games than Frolov yet took 24 more shots.

Frolov's shooting percentage is consistently among the team's best. It hovers around 15-18% every year which is remarkable. He took 19 more shots in 2006-2007 than he did in 2008-2009 and had 11 more points to show for it - that is crazy good.

If he just aimed to increase his shots per game average by a half a shot per game, he'd get to 40 goals easily.

That's what's so frustrating to me as a fan... it wouldn't even take that much more effort from Frolov to get so much more in terms of tangible production, but he won't do it. He's stuck on averaging 2 shots per game and has been through his entire career.

When all these coaches over all these years can't convince a player to do something as simple as taking one more shot every other game, it's just another indication of the frustration the Kings have with Frolov.

- T

I agree that he needs to shoot more, and that it's a very legitimate, perhaps the biggest, knock on him. What I don't understand, however, is why one would necessarily equate not shooting enough with the lack of effort. As a matter of fact, those half-ass pointless shots by Brown and O'Sullivan, many of which are included in the stats you quoted, seem to me as a more obvious indication of lazy play, lack of effort in making plays and lack of offensive creativity in general.

kingpest19 09-15-2009 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 21106227)
Dean speaks the truth, mostly what everyone here has been saying and expecting out of Frolov any day now. We saw he had Jagr-like control of the puck and strength down low. I think Frolov needs to be the guy on his line who has control of the puck.

Look at the line he was on when he had his most success. He had Demitra on the opposite wing, who is a playmaker, and Conroy, who can also pass, win faceoffs and work hard in the corners.

Hence why it makes sense to have Frolov with Handzus and Simmonds. Handzus can play the front of the net, win draws and get the puck to his wings. Simmonds will make room on the ice for his linemates with his physicality and he can cycle the puck. Fro just needs to maintain control of the puck and be the trigger-man (and sometimes setup man).

Uh correct me if Im wrong but didnt Frolov have his best year with Armstrong and Camalleri? The year after Demitra was traded.

Winger23 09-15-2009 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySCV (Post 21108094)
Brown played in 3 more games and took 116 more shots than Frolov last season. O'Sullivan (a center) played in 15 fewer games than Frolov yet took 24 more shots.

Sully does not count. 3/4 of his shots came against the boards. I'm not disagreeing that Fro needs to shoot more, but if they want him to become the elite, 40 goal scoring winger he is capable of they have to start looking for him more on the PP (assuming he's willing to shoot) and play with guys that can feed him the puck.

JDM 09-15-2009 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySCV (Post 21108094)
That's what's so frustrating to me as a fan... it wouldn't even take that much more effort from Frolov to get so much more in terms of tangible production, but he won't do it. He's stuck on averaging 2 shots per game and has been through his entire career.

When all these coaches over all these years can't convince a player to do something as simple as taking one more shot every other game, it's just another indication of the frustration the Kings have with Frolov.

- T

It is very frustrating, and its even more frustrating because I understand the reasons (atleast the public ones) why Frolov may end up being traded. However I firmly believe that whether or not Frolov stays a 25-35 goal scoring, strong 2way forward with world class puck possession, or finally jump starts himself to true power forward status as Lombardi has put the onus of Frolov of achieving, he should remain a part of this team.

Sure, there are trades that could be made that could bring back a player that I am happy with, however I would much prefer Frolov resign. If he doesn't elevate his game anymore, than I understand we can't afford to give him 6 mill per, 5 mill is good, but I feel Frolov would sign for even less on a long term deal, as low as 4-4.5 million if Lombardi treats him right.

If we can pay Handzus 4 mill per, no reason we shouldn't pay Frolov close to 5.

Defgarden 09-15-2009 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingpest19 (Post 21108320)
Uh correct me if Im wrong but didnt Frolov have his best year with Armstrong and Camalleri? The year after Demitra was traded.

That line was on fire though. I believe they were the second highest scoring line in hockey for most of the season, only behind Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson.

kingpest19 09-15-2009 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defgarden (Post 21108571)
That line was on fire though. I believe they were the second highest scoring line in hockey for most of the season, only behind Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson.

Conroy Demitra Frolov? For about the first month or so they were hot and that was it. Not one of them finished with over 70 pts.

KingsRule 09-15-2009 05:24 PM

I Like The Part Where It Says All 65 Televised Games Will Be In Hd! Yeaaaaaa

kingsholygrail 09-15-2009 05:43 PM

While often, it's fan silliness when they chant "shoot the puck" but there are many occasions with the Kings where they really do need to shoot the puck. Frolov is one of them.

TonySCV 09-15-2009 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goallum (Post 21108221)
I agree that he needs to shoot more, and that it's a very legitimate, perhaps the biggest, knock on him. What I don't understand, however, is why one would necessarily equate not shooting enough with the lack of effort.

Why would anyone equate shooting more with a lack of effort? ;) ... case in point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goallum (Post 21108221)
As a matter of fact, those half-ass pointless shots by Brown and O'Sullivan, many of which are included in the stats you quoted, seem to me as a more obvious indication of lazy play, lack of effort in making plays and lack of offensive creativity in general.

Frolov doesn't need to expend that much more effort to shoot the puck once more every other game. His refusal to learn that lesson year after year after year can be equated to a lack of effort, but really I think people say lack of effort when speaking of Frolov when it's probably more appropriate to say lack of caring.

While all those extra shots by Brown may be waste of effort given that his shooting percentage is lower, Brown is the captain, he needs to lead by example. That explains to me pretty clearly why Brown is shooting the puck all the time if there is a need to get certain players on the team to shoot the puck more. The message got through to some players, not to others - and not to the player it needed to most. You can't force the unwilling.

- T

Gentle Ben Kenobi 09-15-2009 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySCV (Post 21109736)
While all those extra shots by Brown may be waste of effort given that his shooting percentage is lower, Brown is the captain, he needs to lead by example. That explains to me pretty clearly why Brown is shooting the puck all the time if there is a need to get certain players on the team to shoot the puck more. The message got through to some players, not to others - and not to the player it needed to most. You can't force the unwilling.

- T

Remember TM did challenge Brown to shoot more often early last season. Maybe it's time to do the same with Fro.

TonySCV 09-15-2009 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo (Post 21109886)
Remember TM did challenge Brown to shoot more often early last season. Maybe it's time to do the same with Fro.

Crawford practically begged Frolov to do it, and AM was on him to shoot the puck more as well. How many more times does he need to be asked?

(I'd wager that TM has asked Frolov to shoot more as well.)

Goallum 09-15-2009 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonySCV (Post 21109736)
Why would anyone equate shooting more with a lack of effort?

Because it could be said that it's much easier to let go of a crest-hitting shot from forty feet than to drop your shoulder and drive to the net (or to take the puck into a corner and cycle for that matter ;) ).

KINGS17 09-15-2009 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goallum (Post 21108221)
I agree that he needs to shoot more, and that it's a very legitimate, perhaps the biggest, knock on him. What I don't understand, however, is why one would necessarily equate not shooting enough with the lack of effort. As a matter of fact, those half-ass pointless shots by Brown and O'Sullivan, many of which are included in the stats you quoted, seem to me as a more obvious indication of lazy play, lack of effort in making plays and lack of offensive creativity in general.

I'll second this. Frolov isn't going to be able to change his basic instincts and become the kind of player that comes down on the wing by himself and then fires a wrist shot into the logo of the other team's goalie.

He is always going to look to be more creative and try to make a pass, a play to get a better shot for himself, or at the very least take the puck down low and hang onto it until help arrives.

If that's a sin for a player, I disagree. I would like to see him shoot a lot more on the power play or just put the puck on net when there is traffic in front. Thirty goals isn't chopped liver.


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