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-   -   Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=683279)

Fugu 09-21-2009 05:59 PM

Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum
 
Hat tip to XavierX for a title good enough to bump one of our own...

Sounds like he'll do something soon (Baum, that is).

Old thread:http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=680160

AZCOYOT 09-21-2009 06:03 PM

Judge is pissing me off

TerminatorBlue 09-21-2009 06:05 PM

Wednesday emergency hearing
Thursday one last day for Baum to make his decision
Friday morning he makes his Decision

Friday afternoon Jim Balsillie goes home crying(on the inside).

PeteZaTheHutt 09-21-2009 06:07 PM

My vote for next thread title is "Coyote Ugly"...

David_99 09-21-2009 06:07 PM

Apparently you can't even say "Baum" on an airplane anymore. :shakehead

Evil Doctor 09-21-2009 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 21204697)

Sounds like he'll do something soon (Baum, that is).

Feh, I'm sticking to my prediction for next Tuesday, +/- 7.5 million years...

worstfaceoffmanever 09-21-2009 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_99 (Post 21204789)
Apparently you can't even say "Baum" on an airplane anymore. :shakehead

Baum Baum Baum, Baum Baum Baum Baum Baum Baum Baum. You gonna arrest me? Baum Baum Baum Baum! During the war I was a BAUMbardier!

Crazy_Ike 09-21-2009 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue (Post 21204773)
Wednesday emergency hearing
Thursday one last day for Baum to make his decision
Friday morning he makes his Decision

Friday afternoon Jim Balsillie goes home crying(on the inside).

Book it.

My prediction:

On thursday, Baum rules in favor of the league by virtue of Balsillie not being able to pick and choose what parts of executory contracts he assumes and the league's legal right to choose its partners as established by the NHL constitution. Balsillie's bid is tossed, NHL's stays. However, he leaves open any anti-trust options by bouncing it to a more relevant court.

NHL takes control of the franchise. Balsillie launches an antitrust suit that he eventually loses because relocation was never voted on, but that outcome is about a year or more later.

billy blaze 09-21-2009 06:23 PM

Daly on Prime Time Sports

-Daly stated in interview November 12, 2008 states there is no veto- continues to believe that- states that Leaf letter is from 2006

- (Melnyk territorial clip played) Daly response is first - Melnyk doesn't know the rules or by-laws on relocation, veto apply to teams coming into area- talk about Mississauga arena and Melnyk playing in Mississauga- Sens would need consent - Daly keeps going on about Melnyk hesitating in his answer- Brunt says don't you think he would know?

-Daly can't answer for Melnyk- he states that you heard him hesitate, he states Melnyk indicated he's not following procedures, Brunt asks don't you think someones who's going to be on the line financially would be following? Daly says can't answer for Melnyk.

-Brunt asks if Leafs have changed mind since 2006, Daly doesn't know what the Leafs stance is-what about other teams stance-Daly tells him to go ask the other 28 teams

- Says mediation only matter in court Wednesday

- Daly says Gretzky not told by leaugue to stay away, Coyotes have made that decision

- hockey decisions in Phoenix (re Hiring of King)- management makes decisions, Moss, Neely, Maloney- they must recommend to both NHL and Moyes, if parties don't agree it goes to court, doesn't think hiring of King because Gretzky not there, Maloney made decision

- Gretzky future - NHL has not accepted his contract, issue as to where Gretzky's contract resides, personal services, NHL not having conversation with Gretzky about future

- talk about Paul Kelly dismissal, he hopes not to have concerns with NHLPA in the future, will depend who they get to lead them

-talk about Dean Warren lawsuit against NHL ( referee who was fired)

TaketheCannoli 09-21-2009 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike (Post 21204900)
Book it.

My prediction:

On thursday, Baum rules in favor of the league by virtue of Balsillie not being able to pick and choose what parts of executory contracts he assumes and the league's legal right to choose its partners as established by the NHL constitution. Balsillie's bid is tossed, NHL's stays. However, he leaves open any anti-trust options by bouncing it to a more relevant court.

NHL takes control of the franchise. Balsillie launches an antitrust suit that he eventually loses because relocation was never voted on, but that outcome is about a year or more later.

After re-reading his June decision, I'm of the opinion he won't rule in favor of PSE and Balsillie. I'm currently leaning towards the Judge ruling "No Sale".

XX 09-21-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leek (Post 21205008)
I'm currently leaning towards the Judge ruling "No Sale".

How would the creditors feel about that? I'm guessing not so happy. Seeing as how all parties are satisfied enough to back the NHL bid except for Moyes this one should be in the books soon enough. But, again, I agree that if there is a way for Baum to onside kick or punt this, he will find a way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 21204697)
Hat tip to XavierX for a title good enough to bump one of our own...

It's part XX, after all :sarcasm:

billy blaze 09-21-2009 06:34 PM

video from game on September 15, 2009, maybe some of the phoenix people can spot themselves - shouldn't be too hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECYkh-Aqfgc

Grabovski 09-21-2009 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue (Post 21204773)
Wednesday emergency hearing
Thursday one last day for Baum to make his decision
Friday morning he makes his Decision

Friday afternoon Jim Balsillie goes home crying(on the inside).

Wednesday emergency hearing
Thursday one last day for Baum to make his decision
Friday morning he makes his Decision

Friday afternoon Gary Buttman goes home crying(on the inside). Then gets fired!:handclap:

Make it THIRTY!

Fourier 09-21-2009 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leek (Post 21205008)
After re-reading his June decision, I'm of the opinion he won't rule in favor of PSE and Balsillie. I'm currently leaning towards the Judge ruling "No Sale".

I am surprised to here you say that leek. I actually think that the odds are strongly in favour of the NHL.

To me no sale means the NHL wins on all of the most important issues that face it beyond the Coyotes themselves. But it also means that the Coyotes as a team in Phoenix are all but done. Am I wrong on this last part? (My ignorance may well be showing here.)

PeteZaTheHutt 09-21-2009 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy blaze (Post 21205104)
video from game on September 15, 2009, maybe some of the phoenix people can spot themselves - shouldn't be too hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECYkh-Aqfgc

Good lord, that was ridiculous! Was that for real? LOL at the creepy music in the video... :laugh:

berklon 09-21-2009 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 21204697)
Hat tip to XavierX for a title good enough to bump one of our own...

I recommended this title a few threads ago. :(

It's because I'm Canadian, isn't it? ;)

billy blaze 09-21-2009 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteZaTheHutt (Post 21205287)
Good lord, that was ridiculous! Was that for real? LOL at the creepy music in the video... :laugh:

totally real taken from the press box at Jobing.com

berklon 09-21-2009 07:07 PM

I can understand noone buying season tickets - I don't blame them one bit.

But for an exhibition opener with dirt cheap prices on single tickets, and the need to make a statement on keeping the team in Phoenix - they should've had at least 5,000-6,000 there. It doesn't even look like there's 500 there.

bleeney 09-21-2009 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy blaze (Post 21205104)
video from game on September 15, 2009, maybe some of the phoenix people can spot themselves - shouldn't be too hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECYkh-Aqfgc

They really did build a beautiful arena, didn't they?

XX 09-21-2009 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berklon (Post 21205549)
But for an exhibition opener with dirt cheap prices on single tickets, and the need to make a statement on keeping the team in Phoenix - they should've had at least 5,000-6,000 there. It doesn't even look like there's 500 there.

To be fair, the camera shot doesn't show the near side boards opposite the bench. That is, by far, the most popular section and the games I've gone to it's densely packed. Best seats in the house. Again, it was the preseason on a Tuesday for a team most people in the valley think has already moved.

MotorMaster 09-21-2009 07:14 PM

This team will be in Kansas City when all is said and done.

Cirris 09-21-2009 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy blaze (Post 21205104)
video from game on September 15, 2009, maybe some of the phoenix people can spot themselves - shouldn't be too hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECYkh-Aqfgc

TBH, I don't think the attendance from a preseason game has much meaning considering it is a meaningless exhibition game. Also taking into account that most who attend preseason games are season ticket holders, with all this mess of Balsillie trying to take the team out of town I'm not throwing down money for a team that might not be here in 2 weeks. I'd consider myself lucky to get a refund in a reasonable time.

billy blaze 09-21-2009 07:48 PM

Bill Daly- nothing to see here, move along

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/698896

Quote:

"His answers to questions on a radio program are hardly probative of what the league's rules actually are, and how the league will interpret and enforce them," said Daly.

billy blaze 09-21-2009 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirris (Post 21206318)
TBH, I don't think the attendance from a preseason game has much meaning considering it is a meaningless exhibition game. Also taking into account that most who attend preseason games are season ticket holders, with all this mess of Balsillie trying to take the team out of town I'm not throwing down money for a team that might not be here in 2 weeks. I'd consider myself lucky to get a refund in a reasonable time.

fairweather fan

Kritter471 09-21-2009 08:00 PM

Replying to things from the last thread.

BB - very hard to say on early attendance. The high-draw teams tend to be high-draw partially because they bring in local fans of the visiting team, a number that's likely to be unaffected. However, the Phoenix ticket base has been decimated by this mess. Assuming an ownership decision has been made by that point, some of the resentment of Moyes will go away, but there's still a lingering (though less likely) threat of relocation if a lease deal doesn't get done with Glendale, plus there's the issue of no marketing up until this point. Given the preseason numbers, I assume the season ticket base has been cut in half or worse by this mess through non-renewals (through the mistaken idea that they wouldn't be able to get a refund, a "wait and see" approach or simply an unwillingness to give Moyes any money while he was still technically the owner), and those are numbers that are difficult to make up in-season.

CGG - the reason it's relevant is it shows a pattern of potentially deceptive accounting by Moyes. If he's moving money to himself/other Moyes-owned companies from the Coyotes, why should I trust that he did everything in his power to make the business as profitable as possible? And is the business really losing money if it's going from one of Moyes' pockets to the other? Furthermore, he's got some abnormally large numbers in debt service (debt to himself in some cases?) as well as in depreciation and amortization, the latter two paper losses rather than real ones. Situations like that make me wonder about artificial inflation of losses as means to an end (i.e., bankruptcy), though no one knows that to be the case at this point, obviously.

The issue isn't whether the Coyotes lost money over Moyes' tenure as owner. They almost certainly did (like most of the other teams in the league have over decade-long stretches of poor play, including many in traditional markets).

The issue is why the accounting to potentially overplay the losses so severely? It's either accidentally inept management or deliberately inept management, possibly for some means to an end.

Besides that, if you can easily attribute a third of the "$300 million" in losses to some sort of inept management, how much of the remaining loss could you eliminate with a better look at the breakdown of the numbers or smart changes in how the team is run (i.e., not hiring an $8 million coach)? None of those decisions has anything to do with the market or its viability.

If the franchise was run and ran its books the same way in, say, downtown Toronto as it does in Phoenix, I am nearly certain it would still lose money every year.

Actually, that gives me some very interesting numbers to crunch.


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