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-   -   [SWE] when does sweden thinks the time is to.... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=69550)

SUPERMAN 04-10-2004 11:45 AM

[SWE] when does sweden thinks the time is to....
 
It is time for Sweden hockey to do something about the swedish standard at the juniorhockey, we can not sit back and see how other countries is running away from us, we have to act now.
we think that we every year has a better group of players coming up, the nex is 87 and so on and on and on. but always the same happens at the end o´f the year, we are miles away from the top.

In USA and Canada they say that there hockeyleauge for junior players at the age of 20 are huge better then the Swedish even better then allsvenskan, and they can even play against top team like Farjestad, Frolunda and HV and in smaller rinks they can even beat them, in swedish big ice they can do a good job and perhaps just a couple of goal against them.

I really hope that someone like maybe Evensson or perhaps Kent Forsberg, can take over and take Sweden juniorleauge to a higher level, how can players born 86,87 were the most talent and play boxplay, powerplay and so on and players born 82-83 are already done...... and they have to figth to get a allsvensk team or stop to play hocke because they already is to old for the most swedish trainers if they dont already is in the eliteleauge at this age, somebody in the swedish hockeyfederation has to take the answere of that

I would like a big discuse ..............

EDIT: I edited your post into several paragraphs, to make it easier to read, hope you don't mind SUPERMAN :)

Riddarn 04-10-2004 11:50 AM

:huh:

SUPERMAN 04-10-2004 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUPERMAN
It is time for Sweden hockey to do something about the swedish standard at the juniorhockey, we can not sit back and see how other countries is running away from us, we have to act now.
we think that we every year has a better group of players coming up, the nex is 87 and so on and on and on. but always the same happens at the end o´f the year, we are miles away from the top.

In USA and Canada they say that there hockeyleauge for junior players at the age of 20 are huge better then the Swedish even better then allsvenskan, and they can even play against top team like Farjestad, Frolunda and HV and in smaller rinks they can even beat them, in swedish big ice they can do a good job and perhaps just a couple of goal against them.

I really hope that someone like maybe Evensson or perhaps Kent Forsberg, can take over and take Sweden juniorleauge to a higher level, how can players born 86,87 were the most talent and play boxplay, powerplay and so on and players born 82-83 are already done...... and they have to figth to get a allsvensk team or stop to play hocke because they already is to old for the most swedish trainers if they dont already is in the eliteleauge at this age, somebody in the swedish hockeyfederation has to take the answere of that

I would like a big discuse ..............

EDIT: I edited your post into several paragraphs, to make it easier to read, hope you don't mind SUPERMAN :)

That´s ok

Predatore 04-10-2004 11:59 AM

well, I was a bit confused by the third paragraph there (how can players born 86,87 were the most talent and play boxplay, powerplay and so on and players born 82-83 are already done) but I think I grasped parts of it.

On thing I agree on right away is that we need to have good coaches on junior level. Actually, that is where we should have the best coaches.. but for obvious reasons that isn't always possible.

I for one like Torgny Bendelin quite a bit and think he is a good coach. He definitely doesn't treat the stars in a special way and lets the best ones play. Has a good hockey philosophy IMO as well.

As for the 86's, I still like to wait until the tournament is over before putting them down entirely. They still got a good shot to reach the medal round.. and seeing as the other group is tight Sweden could very well upset the team they'll meet in the quarterfinal, if that will be the case.

An Ape called Yoko 04-10-2004 12:01 PM

J20 SuperElit is a good league and is better by far than what people think.
Most people have an opinion about the league without having seen a game!!!

Its a good league and the top 10 teams in SuperElit has good standard, but we need to make it even better. Its important that the SuperElit is so good that more players consider playing their last year of hockey as a junior. Having first-year seniors play is ok too.

SUPERMAN 04-10-2004 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predatore
well, I was a bit confused by the third paragraph there (how can players born 86,87 were the most talent and play boxplay, powerplay and so on and players born 82-83 are already done) but I think I grasped parts of it.

On thing I agree on right away is that we need to have good coaches on junior level. Actually, that is where we should have the best coaches.. but for obvious reasons that isn't always possible.

I for one like Torgny Bendelin quite a bit and think he is a good coach. He definitely doesn't treat the stars in a special way and lets the best ones play. Has a good hockey philosophy IMO as well.

As for the 86's, I still like to wait until the tournament is over before putting them down entirely. They still got a good shot to reach the medal round.. and seeing as the other group is tight Sweden could very well upset the team they'll meet in the quarterfinal, if that will be the case.


In juniorleauge WHL, USHL they have this year players born 83 and under, in sweden we have players born 84 and under..

I agree with you about Torgny Bendelin

And I dont put the 86´s specially bad, but it seems to replay every other year so far, they have to play for not been in the B group next year, they have the knife on the ...... but I still hope that they have some luck and can play for the medals :)

Fredrik 04-10-2004 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivercanyon
J20 SuperElit is a good league and is better by far than what people think.
Most people have an opinion about the league without having seen a game!!!

Its a good league and the top 10 teams in SuperElit has good standard, but we need to make it even better. Its important that the SuperElit is so good that more players consider playing their last year of hockey as a junior. Having first-year seniors play is ok too.

Torgny Bendelin called SuperElit a B-juniorleague and I agree with him. Remember that the only player who didn't play senior hockey at the WJC was Åkerlund.

Players like Söderberg or Frisk were not included because they didn't play regularly at senior level.

We've had the discussion about the talent level of the Swedish teams before and I would like some people here refrain from thinking I'm an idiot without arguments.

Let's start again:

How can the team be talented when they are losing all the time? A bronze would be below average. That's facts.

Let me hear the arguments and telling me I'm wrong isn't an argument.

Predatore 04-10-2004 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredrik
Talent must be judged by looking at the entire hockey world. It is not very interesting to note that the 86 team is more talented than the 85 team when both are worse than other nations teams. Why don't you check how many 86 players there are from each nation on the latest report from CSB.

That was an okay, although not a perfect way to judge talent you said, and I listed the players. Sweden was ranked third in Europe, had 1 less player than the Czech Republic and 3 more than Finland.

An Ape called Yoko 04-10-2004 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredrik
Torgny Bendelin called SuperElit a B-juniorleague and I agree with him. Remember that the only player who didn't play senior hockey at the WJC was Åkerlund.

Players like Söderberg or Frisk were not included because they didn't play regularly at senior level.

We've had the discussion about the talent level of the Swedish teams before and I would like some people here refrain from thinking I'm an idiot without arguments.

Let's start again:

How can the team be talented when they are losing all the time? A bronze would be below average. That's facts.

Let me hear the arguments and telling me I'm wrong isn't an argument.


No one is saying we are GREAT now. But not as bad as people like you are trying to say.

Last time i checked Alexander Täng still played in J20 SuperElit. So your so wrong just like always. Frisk didnt make the team because he played in SuperElit. He didnt make the team because he wasn´t good enough. The only one who didnt think Söderberg was good enough was Bendelin and that was a BIG mistake. He clearly tried to protect his selection after the team in pathetic way afterwards, and realized he WAS WRONG but never could admit it because that would devalue his own position.

He wanted someone to play 0-0 hockey in third and fourthline as centers and therefor didnt have the guts to take Söderberg although he was by far better than so many players. Calle Johansson thought it was a big scandal that he didnt make the team and i agree.

What Torgny says about the league clearly tells me he needs to get out more and LOOK AT THE TEAMS PLAY and ORGANISATION. I was at every ****in homegame Frölunda had this season and Torgny Bendelin the headcoach of U20 team was NEVER THERE EVEN ONCE, NOT A SINGLE GAME. His assistant coach WAS NEVER THERE. Ive talked to A LOT of people and NO ONE HAS SEEN HIM ON A GAME.
He said those words because he wanted a debate. The league is good.

Also players generally leave their last year as a junior to play at a higher level, and thats the system we have had. Nothing wrong with that. Not all players have to play their last year in SuperElit, but a bit more players so we get a better league. The best should play with men.

I agree with Ulf Labraaten who said that J20 SuperElit league is A VERY GOOD LEAGUE and underrated.

last: I have seen all these players play, have you???

A bronze would a be a big success. How many times do we have to say to you that you can´t compare now with then... its just not possible. You can turn and twist it and look at the medals, but its not the same. Try to realize your wrong. Im wrong too sometimes. But not on this one.

Predatore 04-10-2004 02:01 PM

I want to mention one subject which has yet to be touched here (and in the other thread we discussed).

Reasons you can't say a team is not talented just because of the results
- It's a team sport, if talent was everything it took Team Canada would win all World Championships tournaments at senior leve, Sweden would not have lost against Belarus, we wouldn't have seen the several Russian flops in the WC's the recent years

- You say a team is talented if you have seen the players, you judge them one by one and if you find most of them talented than you are entitled to say the team is talented.. or not talented if that is your opinon. I have seen a good amount of these players play, not all like rivercanyon. How many of these players have you seen Fredrik, how many times have you seen them play, and if this team is not talented.. do you think there are any talented players among the ones you have seen? Or are all more or less mediocre players in your opinion?

Fredrik 04-10-2004 02:57 PM

Well,

what both Rivercanyon and Predatore seem to forget is that Swedish teams are clearly worse now than they used to be. Unless you agree on this I must say I cannot take anything you say about prospects seriously.

Yes,
the team looks ok(not by any means great) on paper but obviously they are a bad team anyway which makes me doubt how good these players really are. It's not as if they have been successful until now. We won't win a medal this year either and this makes it four years in a row. Am I the only one who is concerned about this?

It is foolish beyond belief to say you cannot compare now and then. Then we had Czechoslovakia that we were just as good as. Today we have the Czech and Slovak teams and both are at least as good as us. :dunno:
Today we also have a below strength Canada and the US so the competition is probably a little bit stronger but for the umpteenth time: Bronze is historically below average. That's what you should use as your benchmark when you judge the potential of todays teams.

I attended 20 Superelit games this season. Do I really have to tell you guys who informed you Bergfors' height was terribly wrong?

So I forgot about Täng but my point is still valid. Bendelin is not alone to think Superelit is a bad league. BTW, Frisk was a lock for the WJC team in November. He was omitted from the November tournament because Bendelin wanted to have a look at more players. I watched him more than some other players but he is better than what I saw from Johan Björk.

Predatore 04-10-2004 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredrik
Well,
what both Rivercanyon and Predatore seem to forget is that Swedish teams are clearly worse now than they used to be.

finally, "TEAM" is the key-word. But are we getting worse or are the other countries getting better? I think the latter. More countries, more talent, constantly improving teams etc. I don't see any reason saying "our team sucks etc", instead it should be "what can we learn from the other countries, so we can keep up with their progress".

You did not comment or answer what I asked in the previous posts that is okay. You watched 20 SuperElit games, than you've probably formed an opinion on the majority of the players which is good. What I want to hear is your opinion on those players. Basically, which players you think are talented and which are not, so I can draw a conclusion how you can call the entire team not talented.

PS: Bergfors' true size remains an enigma :D

An Ape called Yoko 04-10-2004 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredrik
Well,

what both Rivercanyon and Predatore seem to forget is that Swedish teams are clearly worse now than they used to be. Unless you agree on this I must say I cannot take anything you say about prospects seriously.

Yes,
the team looks ok(not by any means great) on paper but obviously they are a bad team anyway which makes me doubt how good these players really are. It's not as if they have been successful until now. We won't win a medal this year either and this makes it four years in a row. Am I the only one who is concerned about this?

It is foolish beyond belief to say you cannot compare now and then. Then we had Czechoslovakia that we were just as good as. Today we have the Czech and Slovak teams and both are at least as good as us. :dunno:
Today we also have a below strength Canada and the US so the competition is probably a little bit stronger but for the umpteenth time: Bronze is historically below average. That's what you should use as your benchmark when you judge the potential of todays teams.

I attended 20 Superelit games this season. Do I really have to tell you guys who informed you Bergfors' height was terribly wrong?

So I forgot about Täng but my point is still valid. Bendelin is not alone to think Superelit is a bad league. BTW, Frisk was a lock for the WJC team in November. He was omitted from the November tournament because Bendelin wanted to have a look at more players. I watched him more than some other players but he is better than what I saw from Johan Björk.

Im not participating in this discussion any further, because we aren´t getting anywhere. It is futile. You still don´t get it.
I´ve seen Björk and Frisk play more than a few occasions. Imo i can safely say that Björk is a better player.

Screw Bergfors height. He is still big and strong. Really really fit and he has good reach, thats all i need to know.

Fredrik 04-10-2004 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivercanyon
You still don´t get it.

:lol
Bye bye!

Predatore,
there are talented players in Sweden, no doubt about that. There aren't enough of them, though. That's where the problem is.

If the others are getting better while we're not or if we're getting worse is just symptoms of the same problem. Sweden are losing their relative strength. It upsets me that a lot of people seem to feel nothing is really wrong and that we're still world class. Well, if the Czech Republic is getting better so could we so deal with the problem instead of pretending all is fine because it obviously isn't.

Predatore 04-10-2004 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredrik
It upsets me that a lot of people seem to feel nothing is really wrong and that we're still world class. Well, if the Czech Republic is getting better so could we so deal with the problem instead of pretending all is fine because it obviously isn't.

I don't think there are people that would honestly say everything is fine with Swedish junior hockey today, it would surprise me other wise.

The problem you are describing has been debated since the 82's. And the fact that team Sweden now appears to be a team that finishes 5th-8th in a WJC-tournament (instead of say 2nd-4th before) is obviously not good. I honestly don't think there is much different in regards to player material, or the overall talent of the teams we have now. But what seems to be the main problem is scoring ability and winning instinct.

Not taking the last two games into consideration, you know as well as me that the Swedish junior teams (U17-U20) usually win the shots, produces a lot of offense but still loses the games. That is a good sign as any that there is something wrong with the scoring ability of young Swedish players (compared to the other countries). You almost never find team Sweden wins a game where "we" are outshot by the opponent. Tommy Boustedt and all the other guys have talked about how important it is for the young Swedish players to get more invidual training, shooting, skating etc.

I remember reading, 2 years ago I would imagine, that the first group of players to receive this "special training" was the 86's. Until this point we have yet to see a result of it, unfortunately. But that does not erase my opinion that this group is talented, as I have seen them play and I am amazed of the depth we have.
There is no comparing the 86's to the 85's in terms of depth. The 85's has however a few "toppar" that I don't really see among the 86's. There is no Johan Fransson, no Loui Eriksson and no Robert Nilsson (if he bounces back, which he ought to).
Johannes Salmonsson is probably as closest you will get among forwards and of course Oscar Hedman is not to be taken lightily either.

next year
Looking at the 87's, there are three names at this points that stand out more than the rest. I'm thinking of Bergfors, Wandell and Sundström. Hopefully these three can be "vinnartyper" next year and at the same time there is good depth among forwards with players like Fredrik Pettersson, Patrik Zackrisson, Mattias Ritola, Johan Nilsson etc.
What concerns me about this age group is the defense. I have yet to see that special defenseman. Last year at this point Richard Demén-Willaume and Oscar Hedman were stand-outs among the 86's and quite close of making the U18 WJC squad.

------
on a slightly other note...
While we haven't had any success with our juniors for quite some time, they are still becoming fine players, and even of NHL calibre, when they are over the age of 20. It is a common known fact that Swedish players take longer time to develop. Just compare us to the Czechs, Russians and the North American countries. A guy like Nikolai Zherdev comes in and averages 0.60 points per game in the NHL at the age of 19. There is no Swede, or even Finn I imagine (they are quite comparable to Sweden in this aspect I think), that could do the same.


EDIT:
Another problem area is the fact that there are so many other sports that are stealing the hockey talents. Handball, Soccer, Innebandy etc. Hockey is the toughest sport, the sport the requires the most training/conditioning and at the same time it is an expensive sport to practise. I can understand a lot of kids chosing soccer or bandy when they are in the critical age of 15, where most kids start practising only one sport.
The latest thing to prevent this is raising the age limit one year in TV-pucken, to have more young players play an additional year of hockey. I'm not sure how that will pan out, but I guess we'll know in a couple of years.

Vikingan 04-11-2004 02:39 PM

I put this on/in another thread, but it is better off in this one:

Hmmm... I hope I´ll get this right...
I got in here to check on some comments that disturbed me earlier
on the Oduya brothers,
and I saw this discussion about Swedish hockey and teams nog doing so well
as in countries like Canada, Slovakia and others.

I think it´s due to social classes, a hot subject, I know,
no one wants to talk about it.
But the fact is that the guys playing hockey in Canada are all working class,
the hardley ever pass highschool, many of them don´t have the ability to study
on any higher levels. They have to choices, play hockey or work at the local gasstation. In Sweden the hockeyplayers are different. They have more education, more knollege and more choices. Because of that, their game isn´t on/of live and death, it isn´t about their survivel, they can do other things if they want to.
So the motivation isn´t the same.
Thats my point of viev, and I think most of the swedish hockeyplayers ever tried to hold a conversation with an candian hockey player...

Predatore 04-11-2004 03:05 PM

It's a good point Vikingan, although it is my opinion that tradition has more to do with it. Hockey is everything in Canada. In Sweden it is the second sport behind soccer.

We don't have very many licensed players, especially juniors, compared to Canada and with a such larger selection of player it is not surprising they get more quality players.

Riddarn 04-11-2004 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predatore
It's a good point Vikingan, although it is my opinion that tradition has more to do with it. Hockey is everything in Canada. In Sweden it is the second sport behind soccer.

We don't have very many licensed players, especially juniors, compared to Canada and with a such larger selection of player it is not surprising they get more quality players.

If I could link this to the other thread Vikingan posted this message in, part of my point there was that it could be possible to bring hockey to "new" parts of sweden. If Örnsköldsvik could produce Markus Näslund, Peter Forsberg and the Sedins all within 10 years, imagine what could be done in the larger towns in the south if hockey could grow more there. After all, tradition has to start somewhere.

Tampa GM 04-11-2004 03:39 PM

Two of Swedens best players ever(Forsberg and Näslund) was born just a few weeks apart in this small city, dont expect anything like that to ever happen again. You must also consider that hockey is everything in Örnsköldsvik while soccer are big sports in other cities.

Almost all hockeyplayers where great in soccer(In Örnsköldsvik) as well but after the TV Puck they choosed hockey. I believe if Forsberg, Näslund and the rest of the players had been born in Åtvidaberg or Degerfors they would have been soccerplayers now.

Örnsköldsvik has only raced two decent soccerplayers the last 1000 years, thats Tomas Andersson who has played for Örebro Sk for like 10 years and Magnus Powell who are now playing in Norway. Speaking of Powell he was the GOALIE in the famous TV Puck team of 88.

Riddarn 04-11-2004 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tampa GM
Two of Swedens best players ever(Forsberg and Näslund) was born just a few weeks apart in this small city, dont expect anything like that to ever happen again. You must also consider that hockey is everything in Örnsköldsvik while soccer are big sports in other cities.

Almost all hockeyplayers where great in soccer(In Örnsköldsvik) as well but after the TV Puck they choosed hockey. I believe if Forsberg, Näslund and the rest of the players had been born in Åtvidaberg or Degerfors they would have been soccerplayers now.

Örnsköldsvik has only raced two decent soccerplayers the last 1000 years, thats Tomas Andersson who has played for Örebro Sk for like 10 years and Magnus Powell who are now playing in Norway. Speaking of Powell he was the GOALIE in the famous TV Puck team of 88.

Bad choice of example, obviously :)

Talent Sqout 04-29-2004 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predatore
I don't think there are people that would honestly say everything is fine with Swedish junior hockey today, it would surprise me other wise.

The problem you are describing has been debated since the 82's. And the fact that team Sweden now appears to be a team that finishes 5th-8th in a WJC-tournament (instead of say 2nd-4th before) is obviously not good. I honestly don't think there is much different in regards to player material, or the overall talent of the teams we have now. But what seems to be the main problem is scoring ability and winning instinct.

Not taking the last two games into consideration, you know as well as me that the Swedish junior teams (U17-U20) usually win the shots, produces a lot of offense but still loses the games. That is a good sign as any that there is something wrong with the scoring ability of young Swedish players (compared to the other countries). You almost never find team Sweden wins a game where "we" are outshot by the opponent. Tommy Boustedt and all the other guys have talked about how important it is for the young Swedish players to get more invidual training, shooting, skating etc.

I remember reading, 2 years ago I would imagine, that the first group of players to receive this "special training" was the 86's. Until this point we have yet to see a result of it, unfortunately. But that does not erase my opinion that this group is talented, as I have seen them play and I am amazed of the depth we have.
There is no comparing the 86's to the 85's in terms of depth. The 85's has however a few "toppar" that I don't really see among the 86's. There is no Johan Fransson, no Loui Eriksson and no Robert Nilsson (if he bounces back, which he ought to).
Johannes Salmonsson is probably as closest you will get among forwards and of course Oscar Hedman is not to be taken lightily either.

next year
Looking at the 87's, there are three names at this points that stand out more than the rest. I'm thinking of Bergfors, Wandell and Sundström. Hopefully these three can be "vinnartyper" next year and at the same time there is good depth among forwards with players like Fredrik Pettersson, Patrik Zackrisson, Mattias Ritola, Johan Nilsson etc.
What concerns me about this age group is the defense. I have yet to see that special defenseman. Last year at this point Richard Demén-Willaume and Oscar Hedman were stand-outs among the 86's and quite close of making the U18 WJC squad.

------
on a slightly other note...
While we haven't had any success with our juniors for quite some time, they are still becoming fine players, and even of NHL calibre, when they are over the age of 20. It is a common known fact that Swedish players take longer time to develop. Just compare us to the Czechs, Russians and the North American countries. A guy like Nikolai Zherdev comes in and averages 0.60 points per game in the NHL at the age of 19. There is no Swede, or even Finn I imagine (they are quite comparable to Sweden in this aspect I think), that could do the same.


EDIT:
Another problem area is the fact that there are so many other sports that are stealing the hockey talents. Handball, Soccer, Innebandy etc. Hockey is the toughest sport, the sport the requires the most training/conditioning and at the same time it is an expensive sport to practise. I can understand a lot of kids chosing soccer or bandy when they are in the critical age of 15, where most kids start practising only one sport.
The latest thing to prevent this is raising the age limit one year in TV-pucken, to have more young players play an additional year of hockey. I'm not sure how that will pan out, but I guess we'll know in a couple of years.


I agree that the J 20 Super Elite is a very god leage and also that the 86,s is good, but i don´t understand why You guys not looking at the 87,s as playing in the J 20 Super Elite ??? Go in to EliteProspects.com and look at the guys borne 1987 from SSK,Leksand,Modo,Brynäs etc , and I can asure You all that there is some realy good talents in there. I do follow the J18 and J 20 very closed and I know for sure

Predatore 04-29-2004 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talent Sqout
You guys not looking at the 87,s

For me personally, I take one age group at a time. As soon as the 04 Entry Draft is over the focus will be on the 87's. IMO the 87's are very deep at forwards but I have yet to see a special defenseman (Oscar Hedman-86, Johan Fransson-85, Tobbe Enström-84) but hopefully and likely one will emerge next season.

As far as the forwards there are many, many to chose from, or how about

Nicklas Bergfors
Alexander Sundström
Tom Wandell
Fredrik Pettersson
Patrik Zackrisson
Johan Nilsson
Mattias Ritola
Robin Lindqvist
Magnus Isaksson
Jakob Mylläri
Marcus Andersson
Andreas Molinder
Daniel Eklund
etc, etc, etc

The depth among forwards is there. Unfortunately the U17 team has, just like all Swedish junior teams the last 5-6 years) had problems scoring. They outshot their opponents by a wide margin in Mac's AA Midget tournament but still did not score a lot of goals.
If we compare these players to the 86's, at this point last year, I'd say the 87's have better depth among forwards while the 86's had more noticeable players among defensemen.

U18 World Cup is in August I believe, should be a good test for the 87's.

Seachd 04-29-2004 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikingan
I think it´s due to social classes, a hot subject, I know,
no one wants to talk about it.
But the fact is that the guys playing hockey in Canada are all working class,
the hardley ever pass highschool, many of them don´t have the ability to study
on any higher levels. They have to choices, play hockey or work at the local gasstation.

None of this is remotely true... at least that I've ever seen. Even the junior leagues have very good education programs in place.

aonez 04-29-2004 03:58 PM

I think it´s ridiculous of Swedish experts, coaches etc to complain about Swedish youngsters lack of scoring efficiency. When you see them shoot you understand why. They simply shoot like girls.

Predatore 04-29-2004 04:19 PM

not only could they improve their shooting skills, but also shoot the puck more often. Swedish mentality :)

You don't have to have the most accurate or the hardest shot to be a good scorer, but a scoring mentality, meaning.. knowing when to shoot and being willing to do so.


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