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-   -   Which club should NOT be eliminated? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=70224)

Prince Mercury 04-13-2004 12:54 AM

Which club should NOT be eliminated?
 
Judging by the average answer in the "If the NHL had to eliminate 5 teams from the league...." thread, there seems to be a common conception that the NHL should eliminate teams from the American south. As many of these answers were repetitive (and inherently negative) I came up with a question I found more interesting.

If the NHL had to go throughout the south eliminiating teams, which teams should be left alone for the good of the sport and the league? Which teams in this geographic region are paramount in terms of developing the game in NASCAR country? Is a fresh team like Nashville with a centred geography the better choice over Tampa Bay, who is developing a league following and growing playoff record? Or how about Carolina, with their franchise history? Or maybe Atlanta - after all, not to many markets get two shots at NHL success.

Post away!

BigMac1212 04-13-2004 01:35 AM

That's easy. The Original Six shouldn't be eliminated. They have so much history in them that it would be a dishonor to see them go.

Prince Mercury 04-13-2004 01:46 AM

Excellent point.

Except I was referring to the south, I don't consider New York City deep south. Mind you, I don't really know what you yanks consider anything, apparently New Jersey isn't part of New England...

Big McLargehuge 04-13-2004 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Mercury
Or how about Carolina, with their franchise history?

What history?

All the Whalers did was lose and the Hurricanes are being outdrawn by autograph sessions by the guy who met Andy Griffith.

iagreewithidiots 04-13-2004 07:27 AM

No team should be eliminated.

PK* 04-13-2004 01:15 PM

Here is how I see it (with number of teams between parenthesis) :

No ''Original 6'' team (6).
No Canadian Teams (4).
Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota, Los Angeles, San Jose, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, New York Islanders, Washington, St. Louis (10)
So that's 20 teams that should never be eliminated.

The 10 remaining teams can be divided in two categories :
Teams that will have a hard time get out of their struggle : Florida, Carolina
Teams that have some kind of off-ice struggle (money, attendance, new team, etc.) but should rectify the situation in the next 5 years : Columbus, Nashville, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Atlanta, Phoenix, Anaheim

So the first 20 teams I named are those that, in my opinion, shouldn't be eliminated.

The Kitner Boy 04-13-2004 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PK
Here is how I see it (with number of teams between parenthesis) :

No ''Original 6'' team (6).
No Canadian Teams (4).
Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota, Los Angeles, San Jose, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, New York Islanders, Washington, St. Louis (10)
So that's 20 teams that should never be eliminated.

The 10 remaining teams can be divided in two categories :
Teams that will have a hard time get out of their struggle : Florida, Carolina
Teams that have some kind of off-ice struggle (money, attendance, new team, etc.) but should rectify the situation in the next 5 years : Columbus, Nashville, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Atlanta, Phoenix, Anaheim

So the first 20 teams I named are those that, in my opinion, shouldn't be eliminated.

What makes the Canadian and Original Six teams so special? Are they immune from economic problems (Ottawa)? Do they sell out every game (Chicago)? I personally think contraction will never happen, but all the threads on this board start with the premise that some cities have a birthright to NHL teams.

Vagrant 04-13-2004 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful
What history?

All the Whalers did was lose and the Hurricanes are being outdrawn by autograph sessions by the guy who met Andy Griffith.

Real mature, insightful post.

Carolina has been to the Stanley Cup Finals in the past 3 years, let us not forget. Their cup run was a thing of beauty and probably the most unexpected and exciting moment in Carolina sports in the past decade. Statements like the one you just made only provide insight to how ignorant a lot of hockey fans have been about having an NHL Franchise in the south. This team is losing. That's the only reason that they aren't putting up the attendance numbers like they should have been. Finishing dead last in the league the year before last put them under really badly. Carolina has a rich history of winners and the area doesn't tolerate losing very well. College Basketball, for one, has a handful of teams from North Carolina that thrive on a yearly basis. Duke, North Carolina, Wake Forest, and North Carolina State all have National Championships to their name and it's hard to come out to see a product like the NHL where your team loses every game.


However, during the Stanley Cup run, the team sold out every single playoff game and there were quite a few fans that walked away without tickets. Even 2nd Round Matchups were selling on ebay for three to four times the ticket value. Fans in North Carolina will embrace the Carolina Hurricanes when the Carolina Hurricanes can prove able to put a winner on the ice on a consistant basis. That may be fickle, but it's that way with 90% of the NHL's other Franchises. Carolina is an easy target because they come from a demographic that hasn't historically embraced the sport of hockey. How can you expect them to when elitist fans like i've seen trash them at every given opportunity?

Big McLargehuge 04-13-2004 02:31 PM

I came off a little worse than I should have(I was dead tired) but what I was trying to get at is...what history?

You've been to the finals.

That's it.

The Whalers "history" was far from glorious and didn't prevent them from moving and the Hurricanes aren't exactly becoming the golden boys of NHL.

The history in that franchise is mediocre at best.

I don't want any teams to be eliminated, Carolina included, but I find it laughable for anyone to say the Hurricanes franchise should stay because of their history.

GKJ 04-13-2004 03:13 PM

These are the teams that should not be elimated:

Atlanta
Washington
Carolina
Florida
Tampa Bay
New Jersey
NY Rangers
NY Islanders
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Ottawa
Toronto
Boston
Montreal
Buffalo
Detroit
Nashville
St. Louis
Chicago
Columbus
Minnesota
Colorado
Calgary
Edmonton
Vancouver
Anaheim
Dallas
San Jose
Phoenix
Los Angeles

PK* 04-13-2004 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR. X
What makes the Canadian and Original Six teams so special? Are they immune from economic problems (Ottawa)? Do they sell out every game (Chicago)?

Right now, no canadian team is having economic problems. Even when Ottawa was having some problems, it was out of question to move them because the NHL realised the made two major mistakes by moving Winnipeg and Quebec. All 6 canadian markets are among the top markets in the league when it comes to fan base, attendance (% of arena capacity) and media coverage. It would be an awful business move for the NHL to contract one of the canadian teams when markets there are teams in Florida, Carolina, Phoenix and Anaheim.

As for the original 6 teams, the NHL would lost its identity if one of them was to leave the league. Could you imagine the NBA without the Lakers or the Celtics ? It's the same thing for the NHL. Chicago might be one of the worse teams in the league when in comes to attendance, but if the NHL was to eliminate the Blackhawks, they would lose a major market and destroy rivalries that are still alive (but need to be revitalized). The problem in Chicago is the ownership. The owners need to shake up this franchise and make things happen. If the Blackhawks are competitive, the fans will come back.

Quote:

I personally think contraction will never happen, but all the threads on this board start with the premise that some cities have a birthright to NHL teams.
I too think there won't be any contraction. I just listed the teams as to who I believe would have the biggest chance of not being contracted if the NHL was to opt for this drastic solution.

Buffalo Stylee 04-13-2004 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PK
Teams that have some kind of off-ice struggle (money, attendance, new team, etc.) but should rectify the situation in the next 5 years : Columbus, Nashville, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Atlanta, Phoenix, Anaheim

So the first 20 teams I named are those that, in my opinion, shouldn't be eliminated.

I love when people always claim that just because a team once had financial trouble, it's always going to have financial trouble. Seriously, for the last damn time, Buffalo IS NOT IN FINANCIAL TROUBLE. They have a billionare owner who never misses a game. He loves going to the games and loves the Sabres. There's no way they are in the least bit of financial trouble. Ugh...

PK* 04-13-2004 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fake Plastic Sabre
I love when people always claim that just because a team once had financial trouble, it's always going to have financial trouble. Seriously, for the last damn time, Buffalo IS NOT IN FINANCIAL TROUBLE. They have a billionare owner who never misses a game. He loves going to the games and loves the Sabres. There's no way they are in the least bit of financial trouble. Ugh...

I never said that. If you read carefully, I wrote that the Sabres should be in good shape within 5 years.

The Kitner Boy 04-13-2004 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PK
Right now, no canadian team is having economic problems. Even when Ottawa was having some problems, it was out of question to move them because the NHL realised the made two major mistakes by moving Winnipeg and Quebec.

I was under the impression that the Edmonton isnít in such hot shape, but I could be mistaken. As for making a mistake by moving teams, I think you would be hard pressed to convince most people that moving a team from Quebec to Denver was a mistake. It looks like that has worked out fairly well for the NHL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PK
Could you imagine the NBA without the Lakers or the Celtics? It's the same thing for the NHL.

You are aware that the Lakers used to be in Minneapolis, right?

Buffalo Stylee 04-13-2004 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PK
I never said that. If you read carefully, I wrote that the Sabres should be in good shape within 5 years.

What's wrong with the shape they're in now? They finished barely out of the playoffs, did pretty decent in attendence, got promising players in thier system (Vanek, Paille, Pominville, Miller), a new owner, and more.

Prince Mercury 04-13-2004 08:03 PM

Thanks everyone, thanks for reading the first post where I explained that this was a thread about which teams in the south are most important for the NHL and should be kept if others had to be phased out. Really, thanks, I thought I had a really interesting question and it warms my heart that everyone ignored it and started flaming any team they felt they had a problem with.

Oh, and I'm glad everyone said no original six teams should be eliminated, I think that actually may have slipped my mind, especially after I said that wasn't what the thread was about in my second post. Thanks again for ruining a thread I was really hoping to turn interesting.

ObeySteve 04-13-2004 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PK
Here is how I see it (with number of teams between parenthesis) :

No ''Original 6'' team (6).
No Canadian Teams (4).
Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota, Los Angeles, San Jose, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, New York Islanders, Washington, St. Louis (10)
So that's 20 teams that should never be eliminated.

May I ask why Washington is on that list?

Christ 04-13-2004 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful
What history?

All the Whalers did was lose and the Hurricanes are being outdrawn by autograph sessions by the guy who met Andy Griffith.

A man who met Andy Griffith lives in Carolina? OMG I gotta meet this guy!! :yo:

thestonedkoala 04-13-2004 08:20 PM

I don't care what anyone says, CHICAGO needs to go.

Guest 04-14-2004 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Mercury
Thanks everyone, thanks for reading the first post where I explained that this was a thread about which teams in the south are most important for the NHL and should be kept if others had to be phased out. Really, thanks, I thought I had a really interesting question and it warms my heart that everyone ignored it and started flaming any team they felt they had a problem with.

Oh, and I'm glad everyone said no original six teams should be eliminated, I think that actually may have slipped my mind, especially after I said that wasn't what the thread was about in my second post. Thanks again for ruining a thread I was really hoping to turn interesting.

Save yourself the heartache and forget the link to this site. The 35% of it that is good is really good, but the other 65%...you can figure it out. The internet is full of negativity.

Skroob* 04-14-2004 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Mercury
Excellent point.

Except I was referring to the south, I don't consider New York City deep south. Mind you, I don't really know what you yanks consider anything, apparently New Jersey isn't part of New England...


heh, even New York isnt part of New England, either.

For the most part, i would consider Wash. DC the dividing line between North and South, even though i dont think its really on the ol' Mason-Dixon line.

Skroob* 04-14-2004 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
I don't care what anyone says, CHICAGO needs to go.


Chicago just needs an owner who is willing to spend a little.

The Kitner Boy 04-14-2004 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skroob
heh, even New York isnt part of New England, either.

For the most part, i would consider Wash. DC the dividing line between North and South, even though i dont think its really on the ol' Mason-Dixon line.


Actually most Southerners consider anything south of Richmond, VA to be part of the south, with the exception of Florida which isn't really a southern state, contrary to what popular geography may suggest.

Gnashville 04-14-2004 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR. X
Actually most Southerners consider anything south of Richmond, VA to be part of the south, with the exception of Florida which isn't really a southern state, contrary to what popular geography may suggest.

Florida is a part of long Island that broke off and attached itself to Georgia. :lol

Appling the same rules to Baseball they should Move or Emlinate Detroit, Montreal, Toronto, Pittsburg, Minnesota, and Philly. They draw awful, Their fans don't understand the game and it has never really caught on in the Cold weather cities. :shakehead

thestonedkoala 04-14-2004 12:28 PM

Can we take away the Chicago franchise for Wirtz? OR maybe close it down and make the Wolves a fulltime club?


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