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-   -   What really worth the Coyotes farm? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=709564)

Komarov47 12-01-2009 03:07 PM

What really worth the Coyotes farm?
 
So, what truely worth the farm?

1. Ekman-Larsson : Maybe our biggest gifted player right now. Maybe let him play one more season in Europe to make him ready to make the big jump.
2. Tikohonov : Gone in Russia for one season (?), was usefull in PK, not the biggest hitter neither the biggest scorer. Top 6 forward.
3. MacLean : He was a beast in OHL (119pts/61 games), had a good first season in AHL, could be a 1st line winger.
4. Ahnelov : Good defensive d-man. Proved in AHL that he's got the skill to play in NHL, a Tallinder's type of player.
5. Porter : Third season in AHL, a very average player. 3rd line or 4th line player, nothing else.

And what can we say about guys like Jared Stall (clearly not as gifted as his brothers), Alexander Nikulin, Chad Kolarik.... will they have a regular ice time in NHL one day?:shakehead

The Yotes need to build with the trades, too much mistakes have been made the last 5/6 years. IMO

zz 12-01-2009 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear (Post 22410938)
1. Ekman-Larsson : Maybe our biggest gifted player right now. Maybe let him play one more season in Europe to make him ready to make the big jump.

What about Turris & Boedker?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear (Post 22410938)
2. Tikohonov : Gone in Russia for one season (?), was usefull in PK, not the biggest hitter neither the biggest scorer. Top 6 forward.

Top 6? What have you seen in Tikhonov that makes you believe he's got more potential than a guy like Porter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear (Post 22410938)
3. MacLean : He was a beast in OHL (119pts/61 games), had a good first season in AHL, could be a 1st line winger.

If I'm reading this correctly, Brett McLean is our #1 forward prospect? (He's the only one you've listed as a potential 1st liner.) Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear (Post 22410938)
5. Porter : Third season in AHL, a very average player. 3rd line or 4th line player, nothing else.

This one made me laugh. 3rd season in the AHL? KLet's be specific: 7 playoff games in '08, and 42 split between the past 2 seasons. By comparison, McLean has played in 74 games in the AHL. Porter was on pace to score 11 to 13 goals in his rookie NHL season. Porter has more points this season than McLean in the AHL. Porter is a pretty damn good defensive player. Yet you already wrote him off as a borderline 4th line NHLer, while you see 1st line potential in McLean?

Surely your opinion can't be biased by these players' nationalities, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear (Post 22410938)
And what can we say about guys like Jared Stall (clearly not as gifted as his brothers), Alexander Nikulin, Chad Kolarik.... will they have a regular ice time in NHL one day?:shakehead

That's why you have a farm. Your chances of getting an NHLer from 2nd+ round picks are pretty small, so you need quantity, patience, and a good development program to get maybe one of those 2nd tier guys to pan out. Every team is in the same boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear (Post 22410938)
The Yotes need to build with the trades, too much mistakes have been made the last 5/6 years. IMO

You are contradicting yourself. During the past 7 years we've built through trades. That's what brought us where we are. We've been focusing on home-grown talent for a very short amount of time. Why would you want to get back were we were 5 years ago? What other team in the NHL was built through trades and managed to have any kind of success?

SniperHF 12-01-2009 04:13 PM

Did I not reply to this post yesterday? Must have magically disappeared.

I thought I was particularly brilliant and tactful in my response.

PhoPhan 12-01-2009 04:24 PM

Yep. Magic.

hbk 12-01-2009 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear (Post 22410938)
So, what truely worth the farm?

1. Ekman-Larsson : Maybe our biggest gifted player right now. Maybe let him play one more season in Europe to make him ready to make the big jump.
2. Tikohonov : Gone in Russia for one season (?), was usefull in PK, not the biggest hitter neither the biggest scorer. Top 6 forward.
3. MacLean : He was a beast in OHL (119pts/61 games), had a good first season in AHL, could be a 1st line winger.
4. Ahnelov : Good defensive d-man. Proved in AHL that he's got the skill to play in NHL, a Tallinder's type of player.
5. Porter : Third season in AHL, a very average player. 3rd line or 4th line player, nothing else.

And what can we say about guys like Jared Stall (clearly not as gifted as his brothers), Alexander Nikulin, Chad Kolarik.... will they have a regular ice time in NHL one day?:shakehead

The Yotes need to build with the trades, too much mistakes have been made the last 5/6 years. IMO

THN ranked us #2 overall for prospect depth last year.

Goncharov was ranked #20 overall for all NHL prospects last year.
Brett MacLean was ranked #42 overall on the same list.

I would argue that Turris and Boedker are our top forward prospects and would be higher on the list than both Goncharov and MacLean. OEL will likely end up at or around Goncharov on this years rankings.

Then you can factor in guys like Tikhonov, Summers, Porter, Brown, and Ahnelov. I'm sure I'm missing some others as well.

There aren't very many teams that can boast anything close in terms of quality of prospects that this team enjoys. You may want to invest in THN's Top Prospect guide.

Here's the link:
https://secure.indas.on.ca/transcont...=special_issue

Komarov47 12-02-2009 02:49 AM

Turris's five goals in San Antonio aren't impressive, his 20 points in 63 games with Phoenix last season neither. And for Boedker if he was that great he would already crack the team, and not been send back to San Antonio. I'm not saying they are bad, i just think the hype is a bit high for both. Ekman-Larsson is probably your best prospect. And sincerely i don't care about nationality.

yakko 12-02-2009 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear (Post 22423995)
Turris's five goals in San Antonio aren't impressive, his 20 points in 63 games with Phoenix last season neither. And for Boedker if he was that great he would already crack the team, and not been send back to San Antonio. I'm not saying they are bad, i just think the hype is a bit high for both. Ekman-Larsson is probably your best prospect. And sincerely i don't care about nationality.

Great discussion. Clearly you're right. I guess we can all move on now.

:sarcasm:

Komarov47 12-02-2009 07:51 AM

I'm glad everyone is ok :sarcasm:

Devils Advocate 12-02-2009 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear (Post 22410938)
So, what truely worth the farm?

what can we say about guys like Jared Stall (clearly not as gifted as his brothers), Alexander Nikulin, Chad Kolarik.... will they have a regular ice time in NHL one day?:shakehead

The Yotes need to build with the trades, too much mistakes have been made the last 5/6 years. IMO

I'm confused? You are ranking our prospect pool as one full of mistakes because an 18 year old & 19 year old were rushed to the NHL too early and therefore are no longer considered prospects? You've already written off Turris and Boedker? Do you know how many years Bobby Ryan spent in the minors before his breakout season last year?

You dismiss Porter as a 3rd liner, yet he was drafted in the 4th round. What percentage of 4th round draft picks even make it to the NHL as average players? Kolarik was a 7th round pick. Goncharov a 5th round pick.

Why would Jared Staal be as gifted as his brothers (clearly not drafted as high as his brothers)? The Yotes didn't draft Nikulin.

If you want to question some high picks (I don't think any picks 3rd round or lower can be questioned given the small % who make it to the NHL, only congratulated if good picks are made, something the Coyotes have a great record of over the past 5-6 drafts) you should probably start with Peter Mueller, who will hopefully turn it around, and Nick Ross.

I really don't understand your comment about too many mistakes being made the last 5-6 years? Are you really talking about Turris & Boedker?:shakehead

Why don't you explain the mistakes you are talking about.

IMO the only thing this franchise has done right the past 5-6 years is their drafting, and trades.

Sorry, but it's hard to take someone seriously when they come here with under a 100 posts, compare Jared Staal to his brothers, question low-end draft picks, and ask a confusing question and don't provide an answer for their own question.

yakko 12-02-2009 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils Advocate (Post 22429963)
Sorry, but it's hard to take someone seriously when they come here with under a 100 posts, compare Jared Staal to his brothers, question low-end draft picks, and ask a confusing question and don't provide an answer for their own question.

I agree, which is why I just didn't take it seriously at all.

Colt45Blast 12-02-2009 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakko (Post 22430413)
I agree, which is why I just didn't take it seriously at all.

Me 3. I can't find the post but he also said something about Hanzal being on the same boat as Mueller this season.
Posted via Mobile Device

Nevermind

On page 13 of my if Peter Mueller is going to be traded thread.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=699593&page=13

Gagnefan924 12-02-2009 03:40 PM

As soon as I didnt see Boedker and Turris in the top 5 I stopped reading...

Devils Advocate 12-02-2009 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 (Post 22431109)
As soon as I didnt see Boedker and Turris in the top 5 I stopped reading...

Rookie Joe Big Bear is going from the Hockeys Future Coyote prospect list. Turris & Boedker are no longer prospects.

Gagnefan924 12-02-2009 04:16 PM

LOL! They're both 19! They were rushed to the nhl. That doesnt mean they arent a prospect just because they played a season. What do you want to call em? Rising stars? Seriously they are both 19 and they were played to get their feet wet in the NHL. They arent playing full time well atleast Turris isnt atm so that makes em a prospect in my book. And they certainly arent vets ;)

EDIT: Tikhonov is 21. How in the hell does he make the list and not Turris and Boedker? To me Turris and Boedker are both more of prospects then he is!

Devils Advocate 12-02-2009 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 (Post 22431724)
LOL! They're both 19! They were rushed to the nhl. That doesnt mean they arent a prospect just because they played a season. What do you want to call em? Rising stars? Seriously they are both 19 and they were played to get their feet wet in the NHL. They arent playing full time well atleast Turris isnt atm so that makes em a prospect in my book. And they certainly arent vets ;)

EDIT: Tikhonov is 21. How in the hell does he make the list and not Turris and Boedker? To me Turris and Boedker are both more of prospects then he is!

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/whatmakesaprospect/

SniperHF 12-02-2009 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 (Post 22431724)
EDIT: Tikhonov is 21. How in the hell does he make the list and not Turris and Boedker? To me Turris and Boedker are both more of prospects then he is!

It's just the silly HF prospect rules. They really should be able to make executive decisions on leaving some guys off.

Gagnefan924 12-02-2009 08:32 PM

Well here's my list.
1. OEL
2. Turris
3. Boedker
4. Tikhonov
5. MacLean

hao chi 12-02-2009 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 (Post 22435716)
Well here's my list.
1. OEL
2. Turris
3. Boedker
4. Tikhonov
5. MacLean

I would probably put Goncharov in there at four, but that's just based on all the great things I've heard about him since I've yet to watch him play.

The fifth spot would be a toss up between Porter, Maclean, and Tikhonov. I'd probably go with Porter.

Not sure if I agree with OEL being first with Turris being second. Again, I haven't seen OEL play, and finding any clips of him is surprisingly difficult.

Gagnefan924 12-02-2009 11:34 PM

I would say the top 3 are pretty interchangeable...I couldnt put them all 1 so I had to have some 2 and 3 lol. But Turris is probably going to be the future star if he lives up to the hype of being a #3 pick

Colt45Blast 12-03-2009 01:28 AM

My fear with Turris is that even if he puts up big numbers in the AHL he is a bust at the NHL lever because he didn't stay at Wisconsin longer.
Posted via Mobile Device

RR 12-03-2009 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArizonaPride (Post 22441361)
My fear with Turris is that even if he puts up big numbers in the AHL he is a bust at the NHL lever because he didn't stay at Wisconsin longer.
Posted via Mobile Device

If he can add some muscle so he doesn't get knocked off the puck so easily, I think he's going to be a very, very fine NHL'er. At 6-foot-1 he has the size, just needs to get some meat on those bones.

XX 12-03-2009 02:07 AM

Brandon Sutter is doing okay in Carolina with a nearly identical build. He didn't exactly have an amazing rookie season, but they play different games, to be fair.

RR 12-03-2009 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XavierX (Post 22441594)
Brandon Sutter is doing okay in Carolina with a nearly identical build. He didn't exactly have an amazing rookie season, but they play different games, to be fair.

If you're considered an elite talent as Turris was coming out of the draft at age 17 and you're still getting knocked off the puck after just turning 20, you're probably not strong enough yet.

The kid's still growing, and I wouldn't put much weight behind an inch-by-inch, pound-for-pound comparison at this point. ;)

Komarov47 12-03-2009 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 (Post 22431724)
LOL! They're both 19! They were rushed to the nhl. That doesnt mean they arent a prospect just because they played a season. What do you want to call em? Rising stars? Seriously they are both 19 and they were played to get their feet wet in the NHL. They arent playing full time well atleast Turris isnt atm so that makes em a prospect in my book. And they certainly arent vets ;)

EDIT: Tikhonov is 21. How in the hell does he make the list and not Turris and Boedker? To me Turris and Boedker are both more of prospects then he is!

Because i take it from the HF ranking !

Komarov47 12-03-2009 05:50 AM

You are all pissed but that's the true, you all have high hype for you guys, but the fact is that Gretzky may have destroy one or two of your prospect, and right now, for such high drafted pick like Turris, Mueller, Hanzal, Boedker, none is the big splash that everyone expected. I'm not saying your farm is bad, my quesion was "What really worth your farm?" That was my analysis, maybe not the good one, so explain me what your farm really worth ! It's pretty easy to bash someone with not the same opinions that yours, but it's not that easy to explain me the value of your prospect.

I was coming here to try to learn what worth the Yotes


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