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-   -   Paul Stastny vs. Mikko Koivu (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=712065)

chewey 12-08-2009 07:22 AM

Paul Stastny vs. Mikko Koivu
 
Thought this was a good comparison. Both are no. 1 centers for their respective team, are capable both offensively and defensively, and have comparable stats:

Stastny: 7 G 24 A = 31 P [31 GP]
Koivu: 9 G 21 A = 30 P [29 GP]


The only difference that would be significant is age, Stastny being 23 and Koivu being 26.

BostonAJ 12-08-2009 08:59 AM

I took Stastny. Love his work ethic.

Qurpiz 12-08-2009 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonAJ (Post 22537073)
I took Stastny. Love his work ethic.

So you haven't seen Mikko play.

I'm an Avs fan, I would take Mikko.

Hawkey Town 18 12-08-2009 09:12 AM

Right now, you have to say Koivu, but I wouldn't be suprised if Stastny passes him in the future

BostonAJ 12-08-2009 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qurpiz (Post 22537180)
So you haven't seen Mikko play.

I'm an Avs fan, I would take Mikko.

You're a Finnish Avs fan.

Qurpiz 12-08-2009 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonAJ (Post 22538134)
You're a Finnish Avs fan.

Granted, I am a Finn, but I would still take Koivu. Koivu scares me greatly every time he plays the Avs.

Stories 12-08-2009 12:09 PM

I have no opinion. They're both phenomenal players. They're about as equal as they get, I think.

The Big Swede 12-08-2009 12:42 PM

Statsny

4rde 12-08-2009 01:56 PM

Koivu is great player but this is gotta be Stastny.

Pure 12-08-2009 01:59 PM

Very close, Both players are great on D and on O. Edge to Koivu on defense, edge to Stastny on the offensive. Stastny is about 3 years younger so very slight edge to him.

shadow1 12-08-2009 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonAJ (Post 22538134)
You're a Finnish Avs fan.

Lol.

I will take Stastny. He's younger and has been the better player over the course of time. Koivu hasn't even had a 25 goal or 70 point season, and he's less than or equal to Stastny defensively.

No brainer for me.

State of Hockey 12-08-2009 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow1 (Post 22541312)
Koivu hasn't even had a 25 goal or 70 point season, and he's less than or equal to Stastny defensively.

Two can play that game. Stastny has never had a 30 goal or 85 point season. . .

Fact is, Koivu could have had two 70-80 point seasons under his belt if not for a couple freak injuries. That's largely playing with nobodies on his line, unlike Stastny. Plus, there's no way Koivu is inferior on defense.

skipole 12-08-2009 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by State of Hockey (Post 22545199)
Two can play that game. Stastny has never had a 30 goal or 85 point season. . .

Right, but I think you missed the point there, because Stastny HAS had a 28g/78pt season. Koivu hasn't, which is the point that the poster was trying to make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by State of Hockey (Post 22545199)
Fact is, Koivu could have had two 70-80 point seasons under his belt if not for a couple freak injuries.

How is that a fact? How did you even come up with that? No offense but I think you pulled that out of your ass.

Last season Koivu only missed 3 games, yet he had 67 points. The season before he played 57 games but only had 42 points. The year prior to that he played a full season and had only 54 points. Before that, 21 points in 62 games. None of these are even close to Stastny's per-game point production, really.

Stastny career: 217 points in 225 games.

Koivu career: 214 points in 311 games.

It's not as though Stastny hasn't had a ton of injury trouble himself...

Ovechkid08 12-08-2009 08:37 PM

Koivu has had a much different development path then Stastny and has steadily been improving each year on the offensive end. In that 57 game season he was on an amazing hot streak until Ohlund came along. Last year he was left alone to carry the offense with Miettinen as his best winger, and he performed amazingly well, going PPG for the first 45 games of the season. He hit a cold streak with the team when everyone started getting injured last year (like Burns) and that is what prevented him from really racking up the points. Stastny has played with much better offensive linemates, but I think that linemates can be a stupid argument. I would like to state that the reason I chose Koivu is because of his tremendous defensive abilities and the aspects that he brings to the team that I just don't think Stastny brings to the Avalanche. Koivu's defense is far superior, not a knock on Stastny who is very solid, but Koivu is Selke worthy and will probably win some Selkes if the Wild actually come onto people's radars soon. Koivu has been the leader on this team for a long time and has earned every second of ice time that he gets. A consummate team player and a work ethic that seems to inspire the players around him. The Wild's record without Koivu is horrid and much worse than it ever was without Gaborik. Their is a reason that Koivu has earned the nickname "franchise" around his teammates and fans. Koivu is a player that brings his all every game and, while Stastny may have more innate talent, I believe that Koivu is one of the best in the game when it comes to decision making and maximizing the talent that he has.

NOTENOUGHBREWER 12-08-2009 09:55 PM

Koivu is the best defensive forward in the league and can put up 65-70 points playing with nobodies. On a team with better forwards (no offense Wild fans) he could hit 85-90 and win the Selke.

I would trade Stastny for him in a second.

Frenchy 12-08-2009 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by State of Hockey (Post 22545199)
Two can play that game. Stastny has never had a 30 goal or 85 point season. . .

Fact is, Koivu could have had two 70-80 point seasons under his belt if not for a couple freak injuries. That's largely playing with nobodies on his line, unlike Stastny. Plus, there's no way Koivu is inferior on defense.

We can talk about Injuries for Statsny too , but the fact is that he is almost a point a game , even with the injuries .

Stastny career: 217 points in 225 games.

Koivu career: 214 points in 311 games.

AvalancheRy 12-08-2009 10:43 PM

For me it comes down to performing when it matters, that means playoffs. When the Avs faced the Wild Koivu was practically the only guy who showed up for his team. He played great! Stastny looked a in over his head, just a little bit. So I guess Koivu's game is more polished at this point in time. However Stastny reminds me of Datsyuk a lot. I love his game.

shadow1 12-09-2009 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by State of Hockey (Post 22545199)
Two can play that game. Stastny has never had a 30 goal or 85 point season. . .

So? Neither has Koivu. :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by State of Hockey (Post 22545199)
Fact is, Koivu could have had two 70-80 point seasons under his belt if not for a couple freak injuries. That's largely playing with nobodies on his line, unlike Stastny.

Ever heard of David Jones?

Saying Koivu has played with nobodies is an exaggeration. Every year Minnesota at least has four pretty decent wingers that Koivu has played with. Examples: Brunette, Havlat, Gaborik, Rolston, Nolan, Bouchard, Miettinen, Sykora.

Quote:

Originally Posted by State of Hockey (Post 22545199)
Plus, there's no way Koivu is inferior on defense.

This one is certainly debatable. We can't look at +/- because the quality of each team is different, and the average PK time for each player is shockingly identical (2:08 for Stastny, 2:05 Koivu).

Mikko does have a big edge in face-off winning % (56.5% vs. 48.2%), but Paul has taken more faceoffs: 714 vs. 542 (he leads the league). Blocked shots and takeaways are identical.

So, I guess you're right in saying Koivu isn't inferior defensively. But I'll still take Stastny for his offense.

Ovechkid08 12-09-2009 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow1 (Post 22552703)
Ever heard of David Jones?

Saying Koivu has played with nobodies is an exaggeration. Every year Minnesota at least has four pretty decent wingers that Koivu has played with. Examples: Brunette, Havlat, Gaborik, Rolston, Nolan, Bouchard, Miettinen, Sykora.



This one is certainly debatable. We can't look at +/- because the quality of each team is different, and the average PK time for each player is shockingly identical (2:08 for Stastny, 2:05 Koivu).

Mikko does have a big edge in face-off winning % (56.5% vs. 48.2%), but Paul has taken more faceoffs: 714 vs. 542 (he leads the league). Blocked shots and takeaways are identical.

So, I guess you're right in saying Koivu isn't inferior defensively. But I'll still take Stastny for his offense.

This is the post of someone who only looks at stats and doesnt watch the games. Brunette has declined greatly in the past few years and his numbers this year and last year can almost directly be attributed to Koivu. He is super slow, terrible defensively and turns the puck over constantly. He is terrific at finishing the passes that Mikko gives to him right in front of the net however, which most of Mikkos's wingers over his career have been terrible at. Havlat has been on the team for a quarter of the season and he has been injured for half of that time, same with Sykora. Gaborik and Koivu almost never played together as Demitra and Gaborik were paired for chemistry, but in the short amount of time that they were on the same line last year, Gaborik was over a Goal per game. :amazed:
Rolsten and Bouchard played together and never with Koivu either. The only player you stated that has actually been on Koivu's line is Miettinen and everyone considered him to be a 3rd liner when we signed him. Again I hate making the linemate argument but its quite clear that the only time Koivu played with a legitimate first liner (Gaborik), there was some offensive magic.

As for the defensive aspect of the game, I can almost guarantee if you ask any player on the Avalanche/any player in the NW, who is better defensively, they would say Koivu. There is much more to defense than FO's and Takeaways.


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