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JayBee* 12-16-2009 09:02 PM

The one thing that bothers me is the Habs seem so easy to play against
 
Maybe what Bauchemin said was not that far off base. The habs don't hate, they don't out-skate, they don't out-muscle you. They take weak shots, they take a lot of penalties, rarely is anyone in front of the net.

Teams used to hate to play the habs...now I think they look forward to playing them.

Playing the habs now is a walk in the park.

I hope this changes. I don't know where to start though. New players, new coach, same result.

gusfring 12-16-2009 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBee (Post 22702255)
Maybe what Bauchemin said was not that far off base. The habs don't hate, they don't out-skate, they don't out-muscle you. They take weak shots, they take a lot of penalties, rarely is anyone in front of the net.

Teams used to hate to play the habs...now I think they look forward to playing them.

Playing the habs now is a walk in the park.

I hope this changes. I don't know where to start though. New players, new coach, same result.

Wait until Markov comes back and we'll be the best team in the league...:laugh:

Analyzer 12-16-2009 09:15 PM

Maybe the year we finished first they hated playing us, but other than that... they never disliked playing us.

Take a look at our top 6.

Gomez -5'11
Cammalleri 5'9
Plekanec 5'11
A. Kostitsyn - 6.0
S. Kostitsyn 6'0
Laps 6'2.

Gio comes back and our top 6 is even smaller.

Stradale 12-16-2009 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Analyzer (Post 22702649)
Maybe the year we finished first they hated playing us, but other than that... they never disliked playing us.

Take a look at our top 6.

Gomez -5'11
Cammalleri 5'9
Plekanec 5'11
A. Kostitsyn - 6.0
S. Kostitsyn 6'0
Laps 6'2.

Gio comes back and our top 6 is even smaller.

Size does matter. Really. I think that is why we cant score when pulling the goalie aswell because its not about positionning, skill and passing anymore, its about winning the battles near the boards and in front of the net.

Craig71 12-16-2009 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBee (Post 22702255)
Maybe what Bauchemin said was not that far off base. The habs don't hate, they don't out-skate, they don't out-muscle you. They take weak shots, they take a lot of penalties, rarely is anyone in front of the net.

Teams used to hate to play the habs...now I think they look forward to playing them.

Playing the habs now is a walk in the park.

I hope this changes. I don't know where to start though. New players, new coach, same result.

They look alot like the Florida Panthers from last year.....:) Wonder how that turned out?

coolasprICE 12-16-2009 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Analyzer (Post 22702649)

Take a look at our top 6.

Gomez -5'11
Cammalleri 5'9
Plekanec 5'11
A. Kostitsyn - 6.0
S. Kostitsyn 6'0
Laps 6'2.

Gio comes back and our top 6 is even smaller.

Exactly... AK is the only guy that can be classified as "big".

I really have a hard time believing that SK is 6'0.

He looks very 5'10ish to me. Same for Plekanec, maybe a bit smaller actually. Gomez isn't known for his size.

Gio is a pure midget.

Laps is a 4th liner.

Sad.

Embarrassing.

Kirk Muller 12-16-2009 09:40 PM

The team lacks size, strength and intensity add in the team isn't even that fast to cause headaches forechecking and you make it really easy to play against. Also, you have a really passive coaching style/system of Martin and it makes for a simple team to play against.

Its a bit different to play Martins style when you have uber talented players like Alfreddson, Heatley, Spezza, Hossa, Havlat etc etc.

Darz 12-16-2009 11:49 PM

It ain't about size.....this team needs to use its assets to draw more penalties. We don't put the oppostion in enough situations where they have to hold, slash, hook, etc. If this team had as many power play chances as they give up...or slightly more, Ithink our record would be much better.

Stradale 12-16-2009 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darz (Post 22705483)
It ain't about size.....this team needs to use its assets to draw more penalties. We don't put the oppostion in enough situations where they have to hold, slash, hook, etc. If this team had as many power play chances as they give up...or slightly more, Ithink our record would be much better.

The passive system sure doesnt help. To draw penalties, you need to win those one on one battles aswell, a thing we fail to do. Habs are not a puck possession team either, usually, when you have the puck, you have more chance to draw penalty.

But i still think bigger team is always harder to play against.

Kriss E 12-17-2009 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBee (Post 22702255)
Maybe what Bauchemin said was not that far off base. The habs don't hate, they don't out-skate, they don't out-muscle you. They take weak shots, they take a lot of penalties, rarely is anyone in front of the net.

Teams used to hate to play the habs...now I think they look forward to playing them.

Playing the habs now is a walk in the park.

I hope this changes. I don't know where to start though. New players, new coach, same result.

Is this surprising considering we spent some time playing with half of an AHL roster this year??..

Size isn't the issue. As much as you don't want to use injuries as excuses, we can't overlook them. Our team has been completely crippled by them. I don't think it's fair to say we're easy to play against. We haven't played 1 Game with a healthy roster yet. And it's not like we only lost a 3rd liner in the first game, it was our MVP and arguably a top 5 D in the NHL.

FlyingKostitsyn 12-17-2009 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolasprICE (Post 22703230)
Exactly... AK is the only guy that can be classified as "big".

I really have a hard time believing that SK is 6'0.

He looks very 5'10ish to me. Same for Plekanec, maybe a bit smaller actually. Gomez isn't known for his size.

Gio is a pure midget.

Laps is a 4th liner.

Sad.

Embarrassing.

Let me get this straight : you're embarrassed because your favorite hockey team's best players are not big enough? :laugh:

Miller Time 12-17-2009 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darz (Post 22705483)
It ain't about size.....this team needs to use its assets to draw more penalties. We don't put the oppostion in enough situations where they have to hold, slash, hook, etc. If this team had as many power play chances as they give up...or slightly more, Ithink our record would be much better.

i agree that it isn't about size, but at the same time, we have no one in our top 6, and only Moen in the top 9, who can/will punish the other teams defenders in the corners.

I love the way pleks has played most of this year, and if all of the other midgets were as fiesty as he's been, i think we'd be ok, but gomez, cammalleri, A.kost... these guys almost never take the body, at least not with any consistency.

I don't know how many times I've seen a defender go to the corner and pass the puck out with one of these guys bearing down on him, but instead of finishing the check and forcing the dman to take a bit of punishment, they pull up and circle away (sometimes despite the dman already bracing for the impact and looking almost surprised that none was forthcoming)...

it KILLS me every time i see it. then I watch our dmen get plastered every time they touch the puck, and i ask myself why in the world would anyone build a roster so devoid of gritty players...:rant:

coolasprICE 12-17-2009 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn (Post 22705679)
Let me get this straight : you're embarrassed because your favorite hockey team's best players are not big enough? :laugh:

It's embarrassing because it's the same old story.

Montreal Canadiens = small, fast skating, skilled forwards = good at home on a Saturday night against the Islanders.... but bad on the road, bad against big physical teams and bad in the playoffs.

Tired of this teams identity.

dre2112 12-17-2009 01:57 AM

It's the same reason why we had to go to 7 games against Boston in 07-08 after we killed them in the regular season. The only difference was that Boston played the body harder and we went from virtual domination of the Bruins to barely getting passed them in the playoffs. Same song vs Philly, except they did a better job of containing us using their size and position to keep us to the outside. Yes, Biron had good numbers, but mostly because we took low percentage shots from the outside.

Then in 08-09, we bowed to the Bruins in 4. An embarrassment on all levels.

With Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri et al, don't expect it to change.

Tak7 12-17-2009 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stradale (Post 22703010)
Size does matter. Really. I think that is why we cant score when pulling the goalie aswell because its not about positionning, skill and passing anymore, its about winning the battles near the boards and in front of the net.

Thats what she said.

But honestly, your spot on - size is huge in this league now where you cannot just get by on speed and skill. That is why I, as a general hockey fan from afar, really think Gainey has messed up.

The reason I say that is when you go into the offseason, you try and address the biggest problem(s) that your team has. Montreal struggled with size last year, as they just were not big enough team to compete. Add to the fact that they lost some big bodies (Komisarek, Kostopolous, and others), they needed even more size upgrades, and rather, Gainey decides to pick up smaller forwards who just will not get it done for you.

On the whole, Gomez, Gionta, and those guys mentioned above are very good players, but it will be punishing on them when they are muscled and manhandled out of the way night in night out, because the longer this season goes on the more physica this league seems to become - post lockout NHL used to almost be a contact-free sport, but now defenses have realized the type of physical contact they can implement. It works great to snuff out the Habs.

It is also the same reason I feel people should really fear the Bruins if (once) they get into the playoffs.

Kriss E 12-17-2009 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dre2112 (Post 22706485)
It's the same reason why we had to go to 7 games against Boston in 07-08 after we killed them in the regular season. The only difference was that Boston played the body harder and we went from virtual domination of the Bruins to barely getting passed them in the playoffs. Same song vs Philly, except they did a better job of containing us using their size and position to keep us to the outside. Yes, Biron had good numbers, but mostly because we took low percentage shots from the outside.

Then in 08-09, we bowed to the Bruins in 4. An embarrassment on all levels.

With Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri et al, don't expect it to change.

Actually, the reason Boston took us to 7Games was because we went 3/33 on the PP.
The PP was the ONLY reason why we finished 1st that year. We lead the league with 24.1%.

In the POs vs Boston, they limited us to 9%. That's a drop of 15%.
Had we produced to our 24% range, we would have scored 8PPG. Considering 3 of the losses were only by a 1 goal margin, there's no reason to think that series could have been much shorter if we'd kept the same PP efficiency as the regular season one.

Are you going to argue that the reason our PP was so low was because our PP players were so afraid of the big bad bruins they refused to get into their zone and preferred to chill by the blueline??..

Philly didn't dominate us whatsoever. There's two reasons we lost that series. Biron played the best hockey of his career and Price arguably his worse. 177Shots For, 133SA.
Philly scored once out of every 15shots (20G in 5GP). Had we scored at the same pace, we would have had 27GF but instead finished with 13.
Our PP finally got rolling again, averaging 27%, but our goaltending was simply horrendous and did more harm than good for us during that series.
Let's not forget that Umberger went absolutely berserk against us scoring 8G if I remember correctly (10 overall in POs), after netting just 13 during the whole regular season.


The reason we got completely manhandled last year was very simple and I can't believe anyone would try to pass it off on ''size''.
Markov-Schneider-Lang-Tanguay, were all out. Bouillon played with an injury. Kost broz-Price-Higgins lost all focus after constantly being talked about, criticized and wrongfully accused of certain things by the media. Hammer was having a tough time.



Size is greatly overrated among this forum. It's great to have big solid players, but it's not a problem if you don't have any.

marvelousmotion 12-17-2009 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller Time (Post 22706254)
I love the way pleks has played most of this year, and if all of the other midgets were as fiesty as he's been, i think we'd be ok, but gomez, cammalleri, A.kost... these guys almost never take the body, at least not with any consistency.

I don't know how many times I've seen a defender go to the corner and pass the puck out with one of these guys bearing down on him, but instead of finishing the check and forcing the dman to take a bit of punishment, they pull up and circle away (sometimes despite the dman already bracing for the impact and looking almost surprised that none was forthcoming)...

Remove Andrei from that list, he's like the only one fore-checking hard and finishing his checks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dre2112 (Post 22706485)
It's the same reason why we had to go to 7 games against Boston in 07-08 after we killed them in the regular season. The only difference was that Boston played the body harder and we went from virtual domination of the Bruins to barely getting passed them in the playoffs. Same song vs Philly, except they did a better job of containing us using their size and position to keep us to the outside. Yes, Biron had good numbers, but mostly because we took low percentage shots from the outside.

Why do you invent stuffs out of the blue? :laugh: The Habs had many quality scoring chances against Philly. They certainly did not lose because the Flyers were "too big". One of the main reasons the Habs lost to the Flyers that year was because Biron out-played Price. The way Price played during the playoffs did not help at all. He kept giving up weak goals at bad times.

Hab-a-maniac 12-17-2009 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelousmotion (Post 22706719)
Remove Andrei from that list, he's like the only one fore-checking hard and finishing his checks.



Why do you invent stuffs out of the blue? :laugh: The Habs had many quality scoring chances against Philly. They certainly did not lose because the Flyers were "too big". One of the main reasons the Habs lost to the Flyers that year was because Biron out-played Price. The way Price played during the playoffs did not help at all. He kept giving up weak goals at bad times.

But don't forget Umberger. 8 goals in 5 games!? The Habs lacked a scoring presence like him in that series as our snipers weren't nearly as strong nor did they crash the net like he did. Of course, the Flyers were just more skilled so in the end they won with 2/3 of the scoring chances and shots we had. Price also blew chunks in games 4 and 5 after looking average before that. But we were relying on a 21 yr old goalie and I doubt we get by Pittsburgh with Huet, Halak or any veteran pickup for that matter. Now, Umberger may be no star, but where's our Umberger? Where's our impact player? I guess it's Gio despite his 5'8 frame but he's over 30.

I guess Gainey is still busy trying to find the perfect, undersized playmaking centre... well, keep trying Bob, cause Gomez is a real bore. He has never had any clue as to what priorities this team really has and never has filled the gaps we had once the skill came together. Now, even skill is an issue, prospect development has disappointed and the defense- sans Markov- is one of the conference's worst. And unlike previous struggles since the lockout, we just don't seem able to bounce back. What if Markov and Gionta don't hit their stride right away due to rust? It already feels like too long a year and it's just getting worse.

Monctonscout 12-17-2009 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Analyzer (Post 22702649)
Maybe the year we finished first they hated playing us, but other than that... they never disliked playing us.

Take a look at our top 6.

Gomez -5'11
Cammalleri 5'9
Plekanec 5'11
A. Kostitsyn - 6.0
S. Kostitsyn 6'0
Laps 6'2.

Gio comes back and our top 6 is even smaller.

What does the size of the top 6 have to do with anything?

Teams that are hard to play against play a different style than our "trap and counter" style, it has nothing to do with having mosters in the top 6. Marleau Thornton and Healtley average 220-225lbs and they are no harder to play against than our guys.

what makes a team hard to play against is they play an agressive style game, the Habs play a passive game like New Jersey does. That's why it was a snorefest last night.

Monctonscout 12-17-2009 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stradale (Post 22703010)
Size does matter. Really. I think that is why we cant score when pulling the goalie aswell because its not about positionning, skill and passing anymore, its about winning the battles near the boards and in front of the net.

Must be why San Jose wins all those cups :shakehead

Monctonscout 12-17-2009 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller Time (Post 22706254)
i agree that it isn't about size, but at the same time, we have no one in our top 6, and only Moen in the top 9, who can/will punish the other teams defenders in the corners.

I love the way pleks has played most of this year, and if all of the other midgets were as fiesty as he's been, i think we'd be ok, but gomez, cammalleri, A.kost... these guys almost never take the body, at least not with any consistency.

I don't know how many times I've seen a defender go to the corner and pass the puck out with one of these guys bearing down on him, but instead of finishing the check and forcing the dman to take a bit of punishment, they pull up and circle away (sometimes despite the dman already bracing for the impact and looking almost surprised that none was forthcoming)...

it KILLS me every time i see it. then I watch our dmen get plastered every time they touch the puck, and i ask myself why in the world would anyone build a roster so devoid of gritty players...:rant:

Not sure what team you are watching by lumping A.Kost with Gomez and Cammaleri, on most nights he gets 4-5 big hits and more often than not takes the body. I don't know of many top 6 forwards in the NHL that have the energy to hit everything that moves and still play 20+minutes in an offensive role. Maybe a guy like Hartnell or Lucic most other top hitters are soely bottom 6 forwards.

David_99 12-17-2009 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stradale (Post 22703010)
Size does matter. Really. I think that is why we cant score when pulling the goalie aswell because its not about positionning, skill and passing anymore, its about winning the battles near the boards and in front of the net.

Gio does that. All of his goals are from crashing the net. And he's the smallest of them all. Maybe the SK and D'ago's on the team should play like Gio and not take week shots from the blue line when there's a D in their way.

Monctonscout 12-17-2009 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dre2112 (Post 22706485)
It's the same reason why we had to go to 7 games against Boston in 07-08 after we killed them in the regular season. The only difference was that Boston played the body harder and we went from virtual domination of the Bruins to barely getting passed them in the playoffs. Same song vs Philly, except they did a better job of containing us using their size and position to keep us to the outside. Yes, Biron had good numbers, but mostly because we took low percentage shots from the outside.

Then in 08-09, we bowed to the Bruins in 4. An embarrassment on all levels.

With Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri et al, don't expect it to change.

What playoffs were you watching?

The only reason the first Boston series was not over in 5 was because CP lost his focus and started giving up bad goals. When he was playing like a #1 goalies we were beating Boston. It's definitely not because their big team with Ryder Savatd Krejci Kessel Bergeron Ference Wideman Axelsson ran us out of the rink.

We pretty much dominated Phillie the whole series but Biron played over his head and CP and Halak had a terrible series, giving up 5-6 bad goals. We spent most of that series in their zone with Biron and his horseshe, then they'd go up the ice and score either a fluky goal or one from the goal line.

Last year's series the Habs were a shell of a team when you combine the injuries and the off ice controversy.

Blaming any of that on size or grit is comical.

MonacoBlue 12-17-2009 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carey Price (Post 22707297)
What playoffs were you watching?

The only reason the first Boston series was not over in 5 was because CP lost his focus and started giving up bad goals. When he was playing like a #1 goalies we were beating Boston. It's definitely not because their big team with Ryder Savatd Krejci Kessel Bergeron Ference Wideman Axelsson ran us out of the rink.

We pretty much dominated Phillie the whole series but Biron played over his head and CP and Halak had a terrible series, giving up 5-6 bad goals. We spent most of that series in their zone with Biron and his horseshe, then they'd go up the ice and score either a fluky goal or one from the goal line.

Last year's series the Habs were a shell of a team when you combine the injuries and the off ice controversy.

Blaming any of that on size or grit is comical.

Thank you. I think the size queens are ridiculous, but I was getting way too annoyed to put together any kind of response. SIZE DOES NOT MATTER, SKILL ****ING DOES! The Habs have Gionta as one of their top wingers and yet teams like Jersey can easily replace him from within. You don't think that has to do with the Habs losing? There's a lack of skill on this team, and our crappy puckmovers in Mara, Gill, O'Byrne and co. sure don't help.

onice 12-17-2009 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Analyzer (Post 22702649)
Maybe the year we finished first they hated playing us, but other than that... they never disliked playing us.

Take a look at our top 6.

Gomez -5'11
Cammalleri 5'9
Plekanec 5'11
A. Kostitsyn - 6.0
S. Kostitsyn 6'0
Laps 6'2.

Gio comes back and our top 6 is even smaller.

Add Metro to your list of names and you probably have one of the smallest teams in the league. Don't look at averages because that can be deceiving. Gill & O'Byrne can screw the averages. Look at the 5 players we have under six feet. And Cammy at 5'9"....yeah right.

I've been saying this since July. We need to trade Gomez (he's useless besides being small) & Gionta (he's not a 5 mil player besides being small). If Pouliot ever plays and shows us anything I would unload Metro also. I like him but I prefer Cammy & Plekanec and those two are the limit to small players.

P.S. how big is Pyatt? He plays hard but he doesn't look that nig out there. Never mind I looked it up...5'11". That's 6 players under 6 feet.


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