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-   -   Jeff Schultz (ugh) on Kovy Negotiations (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=716011)

DungeonK 12-18-2009 06:00 PM

Jeff Schultz (ugh) on Kovy Negotiations
 
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-bl...f_schultz_blog

Quote:

This is what I know about the Thrashers-Kovalchuk talks. Optimism aside, Waddell is saying the same thing he was saying in September. If anything, he has backed off a little.

Kovalchuk? This is where it gets interesting. When I asked him following Thursday night’s overtime win over Dallas, his initial response was, “Same, I think. You should ask them.” And he went on to talk about how he is “just focusing on my game.” Standard response.

But when asked whether he still believed a deal would get done, neither his tone nor his words were quite as positive as they had been in the past.

“Hopefully,” he said. “But, you know — you never know. It’s all [up to] our owners and management.”

This is how one generally translates that: “I want this amount. Let’s see if they give it to me.”
Gotta say I sadly agree- looks like he wants max or over 10 a season and Waddell is smart enough not to give it to him. Here's to hoping we get a solid return for him then re-sign him in the offseason.

vippe 12-18-2009 06:03 PM

Just get him signed :/ I dont wanna see him anywhere else than in Atlanta

AtlantaWhaler 12-18-2009 06:56 PM

If it's over $9 mil, may the highest bidder win.

Juzmo 12-18-2009 07:27 PM

"You can do it!" ...please?

The Sneak 12-18-2009 08:06 PM

1. It's nice to see Mr Schultz reads the boards

2. I thought it was an excellent article. Free of bombast but highlighting both sides of the negotiating table


For what its worth I thought he provided the brass tacks here:

His point is that Kovalchuk says he wants to win but he can’t win if he’s taking up so much room on the cap. It’s the proper argument for a general manager. But try convincing an agent of that before free agency.


Schultz also makes the statement that the Thrashers need Ilya more than Ilya needs the Thrashers. I think I have to agree but I believe the judging is close.

There are 29 other teams that would love to have a Kovalchuk. He's not going to be unemployed next fall. He's also going to find someone that is going to pay him a ton of money

The Thrashers will get killed in the court of public opinion. Even if we get excellent talent in a trade and overpay for a quality free agent with his salary in the off season? We're a crap franchise that cannot keep its stars. We're an NHL wasteland. PR misery.


On the other side? Is there another team that can afford to pay Kovalchuk what we can or what he wants? I can't see it without them blowing up their roster. That then devolves into whether or not they can be the winner he wants to play for. Ilya in and of himself cannot take a team to the playoffs. We've seen that here.

Can another city give Ilya the quality of life he wants? He's clearly a private person. I'm sure he'd be fine in Miami, Dallas, or Los Angeles but he'd be miserable in a hockey first market.

Also, if Ilya cares anything about his legacy as a player, he'll get the most bang for his buck here. he's somewhere else and wins? He was a piece of the puzzle. A mercenary that came in to take them over the top.

He wins here and he's a legend because he's the centerpiece and face of the franchise.

Devils Mike* 12-18-2009 08:43 PM

Doesn't Atlanta not even spend to the cap anyway so it doesn't really matter if you overpay him? It seems like the logical choice, since Atlanta is finally looking to make the playoffs and there is no way they can make a rental trade that could salvage them.

azrok22 12-18-2009 09:01 PM

Quote:

Doesn't Atlanta not even spend to the cap anyway so it doesn't really matter if you overpay him? It seems like the logical choice, since Atlanta is finally looking to make the playoffs and there is no way they can make a rental trade that could salvage them.
It definitely does matter, even more than for a team that is spending to the cap. The team isn't going to spend more money just because they're deciding to overpay a guy... the money they'd be allocating to Kovalchuk would be spent on other player(s) if he is traded/etc.

If you're giving a player a max contract (20% of the total salary cap) but only aren't spending to the cap, you're allocating an even bigger chunk of your total payroll to the single player. For instance, Phoenix is spending only about $42 million in salary this season... if they had an $11.5 million dollar contract, that would be 27.4% of their total cap space... and then they'd only have $30.5 million to fill out the rest of their tam.

FrenchKheldar 12-19-2009 02:44 PM

If somebody wants to build a contender around Kovy at 10M$ a year, they need a boatload of cheap talents on rookie contracts... Not many such teams in the league... Either he chooses the money or he chooses a potential Cup run, unfortunately, I think it means he won't pick Atlanta... But we'll see. Hopefully this will get settled before the Games and he won't go to a team I hate :)

Taxman 12-19-2009 07:02 PM

The more this drags on the greater the chance Kovy walks. This absolutely sucks.

:help:

StevenintheATL 12-19-2009 10:22 PM

Some definitely needs to inform Schultz that Sport Express Daily is not exactly the best Russian media outlet to be using as a source. Using them as an accurate source would be like using the (late) Weekly World News as a source.

The Sneak 12-20-2009 10:36 AM

The most disappointing part of that entire article? The comments below it. People going out of their way to trash the team/sport. Its not that the sport is being ignored, locals are going out of their way to insult it. Personally I think that screams of ignorance, I don't understand it so I must attack it, but it is still very disheartening to see the mouthbreathing Dawg fans (as compared to the nasal breathing dawg fans we have here ~ no offense intended) go out of their away to insult rather than simply letting it pass.

azrok22 12-20-2009 02:50 PM

Doesn't look like anything new really... they sat down for 4 hours, but Kovalchuk is looking for $11+ million per year.

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/288555.html

EDIT: Think they have to start offering him around... they should keep negotiating, but I think Waddell really needs to do his due diligence in exploring trades at this point.

btn 12-20-2009 02:59 PM

I would have no problem with a 3-5 year deal for $11 million per. 10 years at $11 million, crazy.

dj4aces 12-20-2009 03:00 PM

Sounds like RDS took the words of the Russian story, and decided to slip that bit in there.

Fact is, no one knows what he's looking for. But if it really, truly, is $11m, there's only one other team that can realistically sign him.

Colorado.

azrok22 12-20-2009 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4aces (Post 22767160)
Sounds like RDS took the words of the Russian story, and decided to slip that bit in there.

Fact is, no one knows what he's looking for. But if it really, truly, is $11m, there's only one other team that can realistically sign him.

Colorado.

I'm not so sure... Kovalchuk's definitely a special player and if he made it to UFA I could see teams like Montreal (Gomez) and the Rangers (Redden) being willing to bury large under-performing salaries in the AHL to make room.

EDIT:

Quote:

I would have no problem with a 3-5 year deal for $11 million per. 10 years at $11 million, crazy.
The RDS article specifies it only as "long term"... not sure what they consider long term, but I'd consider it five or six years at a minimum.

btn 12-20-2009 03:11 PM

Wait, Hartley works for RDS doesn't he? This might not be legit.

azrok22 12-20-2009 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btn (Post 22767302)
Wait, Hartley works for RDS doesn't he? This might not be legit.

He does... and to his credit Hartley did get the Savard re-signing in Boston thing right (although this report isn't being credited to Hartley).

OrrNumber4 12-20-2009 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Sneak (Post 22738176)

Also, if Ilya cares anything about his legacy as a player, he'll get the most bang for his buck here. he's somewhere else and wins? He was a piece of the puzzle. A mercenary that came in to take them over the top.

He wins here and he's a legend because he's the centerpiece and face of the franchise.

IMO, Kovalchuk can only win as a "piece of the puzzle". He isn't multi-dimensional enough to be the "centerpiece" of a SC-winning team, especially if that team isn't willing to spend the money necessary surround him with decent talent.

I think Kovalchuk at 10/year could work as long as ownership spends to the maximum cap limit.

It doesn't help that Kovalchuk and his agent have many more salary comparables working in their favor, even just amongst forwards. Waddell has Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, Thornton, Datsyuk, and Hossa; Kovalchuk has Briere, Drury, Gomez, Nash, Vanek, Sundin (before), Lecavalier, Richards, possibly Staal.

azrok22 12-20-2009 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superroyain10 (Post 22767417)
IMO, Kovalchuk can only win as a "piece of the puzzle". He isn't multi-dimensional enough to be the "centerpiece" of a SC-winning team, especially if that team isn't willing to spend the money necessary surround him with decent talent.

I think Kovalchuk at 10/year could work as long as ownership spends to the maximum cap limit.

It doesn't help that Kovalchuk and his agent have many more salary comparables working in their favor, even just amongst forwards. Waddell has Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, Thornton, Datsyuk, and Hossa; Kovalchuk has Briere, Drury, Gomez, Nash, Vanek, Sundin (before), Lecavalier, Richards, possibly Staal.

Key difference that needs to be distinguished is UFA vs. RFA. Crosby and Malkin only gave up 1 year of UFA each under their current $8.7 million per year contracts... the rest were RFA years.

OrrNumber4 12-20-2009 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azrok22 (Post 22767461)
Key difference that needs to be distinguished is UFA vs. RFA. Crosby and Malkin only gave up 1 year of UFA each under their current $8.7 million per year contracts... the rest were RFA years.

With Malkin and Crosby, RFA = UFA because if they had hit free agency, both would have no doubt gotten the max on long term contracts. After their rookie contracts expired, Crosby or Malkin could have gone wherever they wanted.

azrok22 12-20-2009 03:47 PM

Quote:

With Malkin and Crosby, RFA = UFA because if they had hit free agency, both would have no doubt gotten the max on long term contracts. After their rookie contracts expired, Crosby or Malkin could have gone wherever they wanted.
They couldn't have gone wherever they wanted because Pitt would've matched any offer in a millisecond. Another team might've thrown an offer sheet just to mess with Pitt's cap space, but even if they had been offered league max (which was closer to $10 million when they re-signed) Pitt would've matched.

azrok22 12-20-2009 03:57 PM

This other RDS link seems to suggest the "long term" he is looking for is 10-12 years.

http://legrandclub.rds.ca/profils/608456/posts/49078

Telfo 12-20-2009 05:30 PM

RDS has said several things about the situation and they have all been wrong

riseandfall9 12-20-2009 08:13 PM

Kings fan here. I think this is a Gaborik type situation. I think Kovalchuk is just not into it. I remember when the Wild Offered Gaborik an 8 year 8.8 million dollar contract and he decided to take less to go to LA or NY. LA didnt want to pay him more then 6 because of the injury problems.

I kinda feel for Atlanta at this point because it would suck for fans to loose a player like Kovy. It could actually really hurt what I hear is a poor PR factory over there.

Good luck. Im sure LA will enter the bidding if Kovalchuk does go. Hell you might be able to get Schenn out of us. And Bogo, Kane, Schenn would be a great core to build around.

atleternal 12-20-2009 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler (Post 22736514)
If it's over $9 mil, may the highest bidder win.

Yeah, and let the highest bidder get bit in the ass.

I would love for Kovy to sign long term, but not at the expense to cripple the team for the next decade.

Waddell should start shopping him now as it seems he’s hell bent on testing FA. Trade him now while you can get the max return. There’s no reason to *****foot around and let Kovy dictate the terms. Over 9 million a year is ridiculous, no way he’s worth that.

Send his ass off to the highest bidder and run with it.

3 months of Kovalchuk would bring a treasure chest of return at this point for a team trying to make a run.

Adios Kovy, but you’ve never won a playoff game and apparently you’re not much of a leader.

***Disclaimer – I hope he re-signs at a reasonable price, but it’s not looking good at this point. I’ve always considered Kovy a stand-up guy, but it kind of looks like he’s showing his true colors.


If those LA rumors are true Waddell should be all over that deal. (Brown and/or Schenn and JMFJ)

I would trade him for at least two of those players and a pick if it could shake down within the next two weeks.

And Antropov should beat his ass the minute when/if he decides to leave.

I’m just curious if he is waiting until Jan 1’st to see if Waddell offers Max an extension?

Flame away!!!


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