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-   -   Speculation: What will the Thrashers line up look like in the post Kovy Era? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=721084)

AintLifeGrand 01-03-2010 11:59 AM

What will the Thrashers line up look like in the post Kovy Era?
 
This is where we apply the products of theoretical trade scenarios to our future line up to perhaps shed some insight into the future direction of this team

Assuming we deal Kovy to Chi town for Versteeg, Buff, Barker,and Skille, maybe we could look fwd to seeing this line up for 2010-2011

Kane-Peverley-Versteeg
Max-Antro-Little
Byfuglien-Reasoner-Skille
Boults-Slater-Machachek

Kubina-Enstrom
Bogo-Barker
Kulda-Valabik
Salmela

PLUG IN:

-----------Antropov-Little
Kane-Peverley- ------
--------White-Little
4th Line

---- Enstrom
Hainsey-Bogo
Salmela-Valabik

btn 01-03-2010 12:03 PM

I doubt Max or Kubina will re-sign if Ilya is gone.

I also think we don't get that big of a return from Chicago for Ilya.

AintLifeGrand 01-03-2010 12:05 PM

If JA stays as coach i def think Max re-signs, i don't think its too outrageous to think that he is appreciative to the organization for giving him a chance to revive his career

plus w/o kovy we could probably pay him around 3.5-4.5 mil a yr which is probably better than anything he would get in the NHL.

Magnus Fulgur 01-03-2010 01:30 PM

ALG, sometimes you amaze me with great posts out of the blue that I completely agree with. This is not one of those times. Actually, I'm joking, I agree with you 100% that this is a very likely scenario, and I like this lineup.

The only way I see Max leaving us is if Florida signs him, as his tennis pro girlfriend has a home there.

But if we're trading Hainsey, White, and Little we should get a really good forward for them, no?

Boognish 01-03-2010 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AintLifeGrand (Post 22980509)
Assuming we deal Kovy to Chi town for Versteeg, Buff, Barker,and Skille, maybe we could look fwd to seeing this line up for 2010-2011

Thanks for proving the old saw about assuming.

Why would the Hawks do this? How would it help their team to disrupt 3 lines to rent 1 player?

AintLifeGrand 01-03-2010 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum (Post 22982255)
ALG, sometimes you amaze me with great posts out of the blue that I completely agree with. This is not one of those times. Actually, I'm joking, I agree with you 100% that this is a very likely scenario, and I like this lineup.

The only way I see Max leaving us is if Florida signs him, as his tennis pro girlfriend has a home there.

But if we're trading Hainsey, White, and Little we should get a really good forward for them, no?


luckily ATL has a thriving Tennis scene, Pro Robbie Genepri still posts up in Kennesaw on the reg, and i think a few other pros live here too.

John Cena* 01-03-2010 06:27 PM

If Kovy gets traded there is no way Little gets traded. Boy if what you have posted up top with those lines is our team for next season, the Thrashers will easily be getting the best chance for the #1 pick in 2011.

Ugh i guess your plan is to rebuild for another 3-5 years. Why not, every year is a rebuilding year.

RightKinger 01-03-2010 07:20 PM

What do you guys think about this deal from the Kings(around deadline time)?

To ATL:
Alexander Frolov - UFA top 6 forward who you guys can then flip to a contender for a late first/early second round pick or resign.
Oscar Moller - good top 6 forward prospect who is very close to NHL ready
Jack Johnson - 22 year old defensman with great offensive tools who is playing a shutdown role for the Kings. Plays in all situations and is the even strength ice time leader for the Kings
1st round pick in 2009, 2nd round pick in 2010

To LA: Kovalchuk

Shameus 01-03-2010 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightKinger (Post 22989223)
What do you guys think about this deal from the Kings(around deadline time)?

To ATL:
Alexander Frolov - UFA top 6 forward who you guys can then flip to a contender for a late first/early second round pick or resign.
Oscar Moller - good top 6 forward prospect who is very close to NHL ready
Jack Johnson - 22 year old defensman with great offensive tools who is playing a shutdown role for the Kings. Plays in all situations and is the even strength ice time leader for the Kings
1st round pick in 2009, 2nd round pick in 2010

To LA: Kovalchuk

I would love Brown instead of Frolov, but I would have no problem with this trade. It's better than the Hossa trade.

KevFist 01-03-2010 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightKinger (Post 22989223)
What do you guys think about this deal from the Kings(around deadline time)?

To ATL:

1st round pick in 2009, 2nd round pick in 2010

So does that mean we get Schenn? :sarcasm:

Rhodes 81 01-03-2010 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightKinger (Post 22989223)
What do you guys think about this deal from the Kings(around deadline time)?

To ATL:
Alexander Frolov - UFA top 6 forward who you guys can then flip to a contender for a late first/early second round pick or resign.
Oscar Moller - good top 6 forward prospect who is very close to NHL ready
Jack Johnson - 22 year old defensman with great offensive tools who is playing a shutdown role for the Kings. Plays in all situations and is the even strength ice time leader for the Kings
1st round pick in 2009, 2nd round pick in 2010

To LA: Kovalchuk

um...unless you're trading us schenn i think you mean picks in 2010 and 2011

other than that i like it

i'd still like to go for chicago first though. they have such ridiculous and young depth that they could flip us versteeg, skille, and maybe even barker even for a rental kovy and their fans wouldn't care as that would pretty much ensure the cup for them

they would have top 6 of
kovy-toews-kane
sharp-bolland-hossa
top 4
keith-seabrook
campbell-hjalmarsson

holy crap that's scary good...can you imagine this powerplay unit
hossa-toews-kane
kovy-campbell
sick

Rhodes 81 01-03-2010 10:39 PM

meanwhile could you imagine what our lineup would be next season

assuming kozlov retires, afinogenov and kubina leave

kane-peverley-little
?-antropov-versteeg
machacek-salter-armstrong
boulton-reasoner-thorburn

bogosian-enstrom
hainsey-barker
schubert-salmela/valabik/popovic/postma/kulda

maybe frolov for a lw spot? if we could sign him i'd love that. or anyone else on wing...it's not great but it's a solid hockey team

Norm MacDonald 01-04-2010 11:21 AM

No matter how you spin it, Kovalchuk leaving would be a huge hit to this team... not only because of his elite play, but because of the implications. The team will be less competitive, so they will have to continue to use overpayments to entice mediocre UFAs. It's not like you'll get many players who want to play in Atlanta like Kozlov and possibly Antropov.

Don't expect Atlanta to remain competitive without Kovy next season. Expect another "rebuild" instead.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 (Post 22993369)
meanwhile could you imagine what our lineup would be next season

assuming kozlov retires, afinogenov and kubina leave

kane-peverley-little
?-antropov-versteeg
machacek-salter-armstrong
boulton-reasoner-thorburn

bogosian-enstrom
hainsey-barker
schubert-salmela/valabik/popovic/postma/kulda

maybe frolov for a lw spot? if we could sign him i'd love that. or anyone else on wing...it's not great but it's a solid hockey team

No, that team is absolutely brutal.

hockey momma 01-04-2010 11:30 AM

I don't think Armstrong will stay in Atlanta or Kubina and Afin if Kovy goes. There is no way Little is going anywhere, he is stilll young and will rebound:nod: Don't think Chicago can afford to sign Kovy unless they unload some of the other big named players, don't think that will happen.

Johnny8242 01-04-2010 01:13 PM

A few days ago me and a friend we're doing the same type of deal. It was all a hypothetical scenario I believe that is the right.

Kovalchuk, Valiabk was dealt to the Bruins for Krejci Plus (Bitz, Stuart , Pick) - Doesnt seem like much but probably more realistic than what a lot of these proposals.


Armstrong was dealt to Sharks for Torrey Mitchell (Mitchell has had some injury problems but I think would be a solid return for a rental who has no interest in staying in Atlanta)


Hainsey and White dealt to NYI for Trent Hunter and Nielsen

Afinogenov and Kubina, Schubert , Stuart resign

We Sign : Hamhuis



Antropov Peverley Afinogenov
Kane Krejci Little
Nieslen Mitchell Hunter
Thorburn Reasoner Bitz

Kubina Enstrom
Hamhuis Bogosian
Schubert Stuart
Salmela

The Goalie Situation oddly enough we didn't even think about.

Honestly our thinking was much like video game trading. I think we did fair deals or maybe even underpayment. I'm not sure what to do with Antropov do we keep him at Centre or wing.

Feel Free to rip. :yo:

John Cena* 01-04-2010 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 (Post 22993369)
meanwhile could you imagine what our lineup would be next season

assuming kozlov retires, afinogenov and kubina leave

kane-peverley-little
?-antropov-versteeg
machacek-salter-armstrong
boulton-reasoner-thorburn

bogosian-enstrom
hainsey-barker
schubert-salmela/valabik/popovic/postma/kulda

maybe frolov for a lw spot? if we could sign him i'd love that. or anyone else on wing...it's not great but it's a solid hockey team

That is absolutely not even a top 25 team in the league. The 3rd line is horrible, slater on the 4th line is bad giving him more minutes is even more more more bad. Kane-Peverley-Little for the top line? Sorry but Kane ain't carrying this team and certainly Little can't. I highly highly doubt Peverley is carrying a team. We have no true leader on offense. Our leading point getter next season would have 60 points the most.

The defense speaks for itself. After Bogo-Enstrom we're doomed. Get ready for 50 shots against all over paired with no scoring at all = 1st overall pick.

No matter how you look at it, when and if we lose Kovalchuk we will go into rebuilding mode for atleast 2 more seasons. Because i highly doubt we sign the right UFA's next season and re-sign the ones we HAVE too.

RightKinger 01-04-2010 03:28 PM

Frolov could be deadly with Afinogenov. The guy gets way too much bad rep around HF for that one benching earlier in the season but if the Kings did trade him to ATL that could help you guys resign Afinogenov. The two of them would probably love to play with each other. Just a thought...and my bad on the picks 2010 and '11 is what I meant :).

Mauri11* 01-04-2010 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepOrange (Post 22997709)
No matter how you spin it, Kovalchuk leaving would be a huge hit to this team... not only because of his elite play, but because of the implications. The team will be less competitive, so they will have to continue to use overpayments to entice mediocre UFAs. It's not like you'll get many players who want to play in Atlanta like Kozlov and possibly Antropov.

Don't expect Atlanta to remain competitive without Kovy next season. Expect another "rebuild" instead.

No, that team is absolutely brutal.

Well here's a surprise, just so happens double D perfectly described the whole Thrashers and Kovy situation in his post. NOT!! (as in its not a surprise..I expect this kind of quality post from this particular poster) seriously read this guy's posts...it wouldn't surprise me if he becomes a major player in the film industry in the next few years and his hockey analysis is top notch. Don't let his humbleness fool you...this guy is the real deal.

I'm gonna have to agree with this poster on this particular issue.
Like DeepOrangeW Dow said, Kovy is a BIG part of the thrashers team and it would be a HUGE loss if he decided to leave.

Some call me Wishy-Washy but I gotta side with Dow jones on this one folks.

Rhodes 81 01-04-2010 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaSportsFan (Post 23000231)
That is absolutely not even a top 25 team in the league. The 3rd line is horrible, slater on the 4th line is bad giving him more minutes is even more more more bad. Kane-Peverley-Little for the top line? Sorry but Kane ain't carrying this team and certainly Little can't. I highly highly doubt Peverley is carrying a team. We have no true leader on offense. Our leading point getter next season would have 60 points the most.

The defense speaks for itself. After Bogo-Enstrom we're doomed. Get ready for 50 shots against all over paired with no scoring at all = 1st overall pick.

No matter how you look at it, when and if we lose Kovalchuk we will go into rebuilding mode for atleast 2 more seasons. Because i highly doubt we sign the right UFA's next season and re-sign the ones we HAVE too.

i didn't say it would win the cup. you continue to not get it through your thick skull that little didn't all of a sudden turn into a horrible player. kane will only get better you would assume. that first line is fine. you also don't understand that that team would be much better defensively than the one we have now. all of those lines would be great at keeping the puck out of their own net. hainsey is not as bad as you say he is and barker may be overrated but he is still solid. do you think we can re-sing kubina? do you think we can get an all star defenseman for anything we have? you're delusional if you do. we have to get our younger defensmen experience some time, they aren't just going to step right in and be top pairing d-men. we will not make the playoffs this year or next year if we trade kovy. accept it. already our team is built more for the future than right now. we overachieved early in the season and have underachieved lately. we need for our young players to get experience first. bogosian has still only played two halves of a season. kane has only played half a season. little has only played one full season. you're acting like we need to sell everything we have when that is only going to lead to more losing

Rhodes 81 01-04-2010 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepOrange (Post 22997709)
No matter how you spin it, Kovalchuk leaving would be a huge hit to this team... not only because of his elite play, but because of the implications. The team will be less competitive, so they will have to continue to use overpayments to entice mediocre UFAs. It's not like you'll get many players who want to play in Atlanta like Kozlov and possibly Antropov.

Don't expect Atlanta to remain competitive without Kovy next season. Expect another "rebuild" instead.

No, that team is absolutely brutal.

maybe i should explain what i meant by solid hockey team...i didn't mean it would be a cup winner, i meant it was better put together for the future than the one we have now is. we have a ton of guys on one year contracts that are almost guaranteed to leave after this season. any success we have this season is only going to hurt us later on. the team i posted could grow together and be a cohesive unit. we've seen the last few weeks what happens when you have a team of hired guns. no contributors that have grown up in the system. we are NOT going to compete any time soon without kovy. we have to realize that and get as much young skill as we can for him. the best teams have a core of guys that have been their for if not all then at least most of their careers, ten they go out and get one big time contributor. we have half of our team that hasn't been here for more than a season or two. that's not enough time to grow permanent chemistry between guys. we don't have the assets to make another new team. we have to let our younger players grow up and as they do we will become better. wait on our players in the juniors and minors to grow up. we have some good talent down there. be patient

btn 01-04-2010 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepOrange (Post 22997709)
Don't expect Atlanta to remain competitive without Kovy next season. Expect another "rebuild" instead.

Come on, are we not in the middle of a rebuild right now?

Our D is in good standing, with Bogosian, Enstrom, and Hainsey locked up for a while. Kulda should be ready to make the jump next summer. Schubert(except for the last game) has been a solid performer for us. Probably need to trade or sign a UFA to fill in the gap on the 4-6 D side of things. Be great if we could hold onto Kubina for a discount.

Our G situation is OK right now. Hopefully Pavelec can get his head screwed on properly. If Moose leaves, we can possibly bring someone else in. Look at what Anderson went for last offseason, if anything you can find some bargains out there at G.

At F, a little tougher. We do have nice pieces in place, Antropov(who has been very good this year), Peverley, Kane, Little gives us 4 legit Top 6 forwards. Hopefully a kid like O'Dell or Morin will be ready to make the jump next year. ...Reasoner is a solid bottom 6 guy, Slater is actually showing signs of not sucking completely. And guys like Machacek or Holzapfel should be able to fill in at a bottom line capacity. Todd White, who knows what is up with him?

Really need to get one of Max or Army locked up for next year if Ilya leaves. Then you have to pencil in any possible return for the Ilya trade as well. So yes, holes on the Top 6 that need to be addressed.

This team is light years ahead of where it was 2 seasons ago, no question about that. I really don't see the team taking that big of a step back at all, if the right moves are made at the deadline and during the offseason.

RightKinger 01-04-2010 05:30 PM

The Kings MIGHT be willing to deal Jonathan Bernier for Kovalchuk but that is probably only a possibility if they can talk contract with him before a deal is made because Bernier is still a very valuable piece for the Kings. Bernier is NHL ready and he is pretty much dominating the AHL right now down in Manchester. I'm obviously not talking about ONLY Bernier but Bernier on top of some other pieces.

John Cena* 01-04-2010 06:17 PM

Rhodes i have accepted the fact we aren't making the playoffs next year when/if we lose Kovy. I also accepted the fact that we aren't making them the year after or the year after that. You need to accept that. I accept it but i am not fine with it. I have accepted the fact we won't make it this season because of the horrible coaching.

With what i've seen on paper and how this team can play, they are the best Thrashers team ever and a top team this season.......We're suppose to make the playoffs this season though. We're suppose to be a top team this season though. We're suppose to contend this season though. It's not happening. It's suppose to though. Anderson needs to be fired and that's most important right now more important than Kovalchuk situation IMO. We have everything we need to make the playoffs this season and contend. Even Kovy knew it before the season started, he was happy with what we got. Why is it not working? We were 7 games over .500 before this 8 game losing streak. We should easily be 12-15 games over .500 this season. But we're not. A change must be made and i'm not talking about players. With any kind of defensive system (and some other things), i guarentee you this thread would not have been made and we would not be talking about next season. If your allowing 4+ goals a game you aren't ever ever ever ever going to win consistently. Ever. It's impossible. It's that simple. This team needs to be a defensive team or atleast add the slightest element of it in the game.

We can sign Kubina i don't see why not.. and Afinogenov.



--
I don't think we need Bernier or any other goalie in this league. We have Lehtonen and i know that I Myself believes he will be this teams #1 for years. I also believe we need to trade Pavelec before his value goes away and we get absolutely nothing for him.

And right now it doesn't matter if we have Brodeur unless he's prepared to make 50 saves a game every night and prepared to face 10 odd man rushes a game and 5 breakaways a game.

Shameus 01-04-2010 06:25 PM

If we could get Frolov and Johnson from LA, I would be somewhat content with that.


Frolov-Antro-Max
Kane-Pevs-Little
Holzapfel-Reasoner-Machacek
Thor-Slater/Kaip-Bolts/Crabb

Kubina-Enstrom
Bogo-Kulda
Hainsey-Shoes/Valabik

Rhodes 81 01-04-2010 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaSportsFan (Post 23004238)
Rhodes i have accepted the fact we aren't making the playoffs next year when/if we lose Kovy. I also accepted the fact that we aren't making them the year after or the year after that. You need to accept that.

If your allowing 4+ goals a game you aren't ever ever ever ever going to win consistently. Ever. It's impossible. It's that simple. This team needs to be a defensive team or atleast add the slightest element of it in the game.

We can sign Kubina i don't see why not.. and Afinogenov.

i have accepted it, that's why i wanted to trade kovy for young contributors and not another ufa who might allow us to get in this year. what i don't want to do, however is to find ourselves with a slew of draft picks and prospects. get young players that have already proven themselves at the nhl level.

you're right, we can't allow as many goals as we have. that's why i used the term SOLID to describe the team i put together in that little proposal i got lambasted for. solid doesn't mean going to score 5 goals a night and win the cup. solid means it isn't going to surrender 5 goals a night. the forwards in that scenario are all good defensively. the defensemen are not great but they are ok. you can't have a bunch of all-star forwards and 6 top pairing d-men. it just doesn't work that way, and the few teams that do have that are having to flip those players for rentals to stay under the cap(see chicago proposals for kovy). we will have to wait for our promising prospects, both offensive and defensive, to gain experience. hopefully by the time they do bogosian, little, and kane will have blossomed into the team leaders, we will have moved hainsey for a cheaper option for the 4th defenseman spot, and enstrom will be ready to be our veteran leader.

we can't keep afinogenov because without kovy he probably doesn't sign for less than massive overpayment of 3.5+, and there's no reason to overpay for him if we are probably not going to compete during the time he will be effective. we can't keep kubina because we will have a hard time convincing him to stay with kovalchuk, without him kubina has no reason to stay here when we won't be a contender and his time will be running out


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