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-   -   Proposal: PK Units and Enver Lisin (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=722561)

Fitzy 01-07-2010 11:15 AM

PK Units and Enver Lisin
 
So the last Enver Lisin thread is too far back for me to find, and I had a thought the other day that I felt would be interesting.

Most of us know what Lisin brings to the table now. A lot of speed, effort, but little scoring touch and no playmaking ability.

My idea is, simply enough, attempt to teach Lisin the penalty kill. Enver has only 1 minute of PK time all season. A guy with his speed could have a better chance of creating breakaways, and eventually have a "Gaborik effect" on the kill where defenders play cautious in fear of getting burned. In addition to this, his good forechecking over the past couple of games made me consider how he might be on the PK as far as positioning in his own zone.

My goal is, to make Lisin into a faster, albeit less rugged Ryan Callahan on the penalty kill.

Bluenote13 01-07-2010 11:18 AM

So basically make him into the player we traded him for?

:D

t3hg00se 01-07-2010 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote13 (Post 23058385)
So basically make him into the player we traded him for?

:D

Good show ol' chap!

DontStepanMe 01-07-2010 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote13 (Post 23058385)
So basically make him into the player we traded him for?

:D

that's what it sounds like to me as well. :laugh:

Fitzy 01-07-2010 11:29 AM

Korpikoski wasn't a SHG machine, like I think Lisin could be.

Bird Law 01-07-2010 11:31 AM

Oh God no.

Bluenote13 01-07-2010 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzy (Post 23058543)
Korpikoski wasn't a SHG machine, like I think Lisin could be.

Maybe.

Yet, Phoenix uses LK on shootouts. Shorthanded chances are often off the rush. Just thinkin out loud here.

John Torturella 01-07-2010 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzy (Post 23058543)
Korpikoski wasn't a SHG machine, like I think Lisin could be.

I think they need to teach Lisin to hit the net before thats possible.

SkerZ 01-07-2010 11:34 AM

What your saying makes sence in theory..I would be ok with seeing him on the pk for a game see if he can create anything...Only thing that scares me is the "he doesn't play well on defense" statements everyone talks about and this could cause a goal

Synergy27 01-07-2010 11:43 AM

I have a better idea. Why don't we leave the PK units, which are currently buzzing along at at 86% pace good for 4th best in the NHL, the hell alone. It's not worth jeopardizing the one aspect of the game that this team has consistently excelled in to perhaps further the development of a marginal player.

Fitzy 01-07-2010 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synergy27 (Post 23058771)
I have a better idea. Why don't we leave the PK units, which are currently buzzing along at at 86% pace good for 4th best in the NHL, the hell alone. It's not worth jeopardizing the one aspect of the game that this team has consistently excelled in to perhaps further the development of a marginal player.

By your logic, if we had a decent PK early on, we should continue running 4 dmen on the pk and never teach MDZ or Gilroy that facet of the game. Not a good long term strategy at all.

Bleed Ranger Blue 01-07-2010 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzy (Post 23058349)
So the last Enver Lisin thread is too far back for me to find, and I had a thought the other day that I felt would be interesting.

Most of us know what Lisin brings to the table now. A lot of speed, effort, but little scoring touch and no playmaking ability.

My idea is, simply enough, attempt to teach Lisin the penalty kill. Enver has only 1 minute of PK time all season. A guy with his speed could have a better chance of creating breakaways, and eventually have a "Gaborik effect" on the kill where defenders play cautious in fear of getting burned. In addition to this, his good forechecking over the past couple of games made me consider how he might be on the PK as far as positioning in his own zone.

My goal is, to make Lisin into a faster, albeit less rugged Ryan Callahan on the penalty kill.

Ill be nice and just say that Enver Lisin is far too dumb a hockey player to play the PK

we want cup 01-07-2010 11:58 AM

Nope. Not interested. PK is awesome.


Only experiment I would try with Lisin is giving him better ice time. Now that he's playing harder than he was earlier in the year, I'd like to see how he does with better linemates. Kotalik to the 4th line, play Lisin with AA.

Trxjw 01-07-2010 11:59 AM

Why? We have plenty of quality penalty killers already and he's certainly not going to replace Gaborik, Higgins, or Callahan as a winger on the PK, so that leaves him as the 4th option at best.

He's finally starting to show some signs of life in terms of forechecking and confidence with the puck; why introduce an entirely different skill set when he hasn't mastered the one that we need him to master? Who cares about shorties when we can barely score on the PP or at even strength?

Lisin needs to be groomed into a secondary scorer. If that's not a possibility, cut your losses and move on. Trying to turn him into Freddy Sjostrom part II is a waste of time.

Carlos Ranger 01-07-2010 12:07 PM

Lisin needs powerplay time not pk time.

Bleed Ranger Blue 01-07-2010 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierreification (Post 23059137)
Lisin needs powerplay time not pk time.

Lisin "needs" to become a better hockey player before hes given any sort of additional responsibilities, period.

Hes a fast skater, no doubt. Hes even made some good plays using his speed, which are ALWAYS followed up by a terrible play, or two, or three.

I think he'd be particularly brutal in the offensive zone powerplay setup where playmaking abilities are far more important than speed.

HockeyBasedNYC 01-07-2010 12:21 PM

Rangers have one of the best PK units in the NHL, i dont know why you would want to put one of the worst defensive forwards in the league on it.

We already have the closest thing to a "SHG machine" - his name is Marian Gaborik. He keeps the other teams honest and hes one of the best goal scorers in the league and hes no where near close to a "machine".

offdacrossbar 01-07-2010 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote13 (Post 23058385)
So basically make him into the player we traded him for?

:D

you mean this guy ?

35 2 4 -6 0 0 0 0 1 4 24 8.33 45

no thanks :shakehead

HockeyBurd* 01-07-2010 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzy (Post 23058543)
Korpikoski wasn't a SHG machine, like I think Lisin could be.

So, this is the project you are interested in? Making Lisin a productive player is the primary goal for the Rangers. And yet Sean Avery is a worthless clown who brings nothing to the table and they need to get rid off ASAP for the good of the franchise... credibility is not a valued commodity on HFBoards.

offdacrossbar 01-07-2010 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC (Post 23059396)
Rangers have one of the best PK units in the NHL, i dont know why you would want to put one of the worst defensive forwards in the league on it.

We already have the closest thing to a "SHG machine" - his name is Marian Gaborik. He keeps the other teams honest and hes one of the best goal scorers in the league and hes no where near close to a "machine".

that statement is flat out not true. please prove this.

i think there is an overall positive in having more contributers rather than fewer. gaborik killing penalties does nothing but make him more tired. we are a team full of penalty killers, no need for gaby playing pk.

guys get tired. playing lisin 5 minutes is stupid. period. hes every bit as capable as higgins or kotalik.

i would do what another here stated. lisin needs to be on the pp not the pk.

offensive talent doesnt belong killing penalties. he needs to use his speed going forward not backing up.

torts isnt using him properly. its on him. hes the boss and hes making a mistake.

Bluenote13 01-07-2010 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 23059455)
you mean this guy ?

35 2 4 -6 0 0 0 0 1 4 24 8.33 45

no thanks :shakehead

I hate to break it to ya, but Lisin's stats are not a whole lot different. Especially when you consider who he played with that 1st month of the season where he got the bulk of his points. But yeah, foot problem, i know......

The fact you use one player playing with an entirely different team under a different system as proof just makes you look like a Hockey novice.

Synergy27 01-07-2010 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 23059545)
that statement is flat out not true. please prove this.

i think there is an overall positive in having more contributers rather than fewer. gaborik killing penalties does nothing but make him more tired. we are a team full of penalty killers, no need for gaby playing pk.

guys get tired. playing lisin 5 minutes is stupid. period. hes every bit as capable as higgins or kotalik.

i would do what another here stated. lisin needs to be on the pp not the pk.

offensive talent doesnt belong killing penalties. he needs to use his speed going forward not backing up.

torts isnt using him properly. its on him. hes the boss and hes making a mistake.

Completely disagree. Keeping the puck out of your net on the PK is not all about sacrificing the body and mucking the corners. It's about putting pressure on your opponent all over the ice and forcing them to make quick decisions/plays with the puck and hopefully causing them to make mistakes. Now, given Gaborik's history of fragility, I can understand why you'd want him on the bench during the PK. But to minimize his (and other similar player's) contribution to it is flat out wrong.

NYR Sting 01-07-2010 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 23059018)
Why? We have plenty of quality penalty killers already and he's certainly not going to replace Gaborik, Higgins, or Callahan as a winger on the PK, so that leaves him as the 4th option at best.

He's finally starting to show some signs of life in terms of forechecking and confidence with the puck; why introduce an entirely different skill set when he hasn't mastered the one that we need him to master? Who cares about shorties when we can barely score on the PP or at even strength?

Lisin needs to be groomed into a secondary scorer. If that's not a possibility, cut your losses and move on. Trying to turn him into Freddy Sjostrom part II is a waste of time.

Lisin = Loser. Get rid of him, he's not going to amount to much in this league. He's worse than Prucha.

Fitzy 01-07-2010 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyBurd (Post 23059483)
So, this is the project you are interested in? Making Lisin a productive player is the primary goal for the Rangers. And yet Sean Avery is a worthless clown who brings nothing to the table and they need to get rid off ASAP for the good of the franchise... credibility is not a valued commodity on HFBoards.

OT; of course you're right. A player that no other team in the league would take because he is an embarrassment to the league, is more valuable to the club then one of the league's fastest skaters. Because he just put up his one good game of the season.

I think the credibility of the folks who chant "Avery, Avery" when he runs over a goalie and then boo a player for getting jabbed in the neck, or when Rozsival gets a point,(i.e. a large number of fans) is a lot more shot than mine.

chosen 01-07-2010 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 23059545)
torts isnt using him properly. its on him. hes the boss and hes making a mistake.

How come no one seems to understand how to use this great offensive talent?

Keep fighting the good fight.


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