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-   -   Line Combos: Gagne - Richards - Giroux (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=726315)

chaosof99* 01-17-2010 04:55 PM

Gagne - Richards - Giroux
 
The GRG line has been really weird since the start of January. While Richards and Gagne have been putting up points, 7 each in the 8 games in January, Giroux has been really lacking with only two points.

However, what I find more worrisome is their plus/minus. Yes, the statistic is overrated especially with forwards, but with all of them at -7, Giroux even at -10, when supposedly Richards and Gagne are two of the better two-way forwards in the league, it should raise an eyebrow.

A lot of it has to do with the very abnormal game against Ottawa, yes, but the guys being unable to balance it out despite scoring points is troublesome. This line is playing well on the PP but not really on even strength and it shows. Maybe they should be put together on the PP and but be separated on ES, not sure :/


Definitely an easier schedule coming up though, maybe a bit more observation would be good. However, Giroux should really be taken to task some time.

flyguy 01-17-2010 05:20 PM

Neither this line, nor the Carter line are producing at ES like they should or need to be. Our best ES line is the 3rd line by far recently. Laviolette needs to figure something out to get things going for those lines at ES. Whether it be shuffling them or trading someone (Hartnell is the obvious choice), something needs to happen. He can't rely on special teams like Stevens did. We'll go nowhere if it turns into this.

TheKingPin 01-17-2010 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy (Post 23250734)
Neither this line, nor the Carter line are producing at ES like they should or need to be. Our best ES line is the 3rd line by far recently. Laviolette needs to figure something out to get things going for those lines at ES. Whether it be shuffling them or trading someone (Hartnell is the obvious choice), something needs to happen. He can't rely on special teams like Stevens did. We'll go nowhere if it turns into this.

I think JVR is the answer for next year. He needs to stay where he is right now. Id like to see Powe moved up though. He is very effective on the forecheck and seems to finish his opportunities. Myabe demote hartenll and promote powe?

chimrichalds18 01-17-2010 05:35 PM

Gagne needs to finish. Giroux has set him up multiple times to no avail. They have pretty sick chemistry, that's what's frustrating.

BringBackStevens 01-17-2010 05:42 PM

Giroux hasn't been putting up a ton of points, but his linemates squander at least 2 glorious opportunities from him per game. Gagne really doesn't have that touch he has had in the past so far this year

flyguy 01-17-2010 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Inebriator (Post 23251037)
Giroux hasn't been putting up a ton of points, but his linemates squander at least 2 glorious opportunities from him per game. Gagne really doesn't have that touch he has had in the past so far this year

I agree about Gagne. He has lost his touch as well as his step (this has been blamed on the groin injuries, but I don't see him returning to his normal skating form in his career). I think JVR and Giroux showed great chemisty earlier in the year. I think a line of JVR-Powe-Giroux would be formiddable at ES. It just sucks because I wouldn't trust either Asham/Lappy/Carcillo to play with Gags and Richards. Briere or Carter would work, but that leaves another hole open.

Valhoun* 01-17-2010 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy (Post 23252156)
I agree about Gagne. He has lost his touch as well as his step (this has been blamed on the groin injuries, but I don't see him returning to his normal skating form in his career). I think JVR and Giroux showed great chemisty earlier in the year. I think a line of JVR-Powe-Giroux would be formiddable at ES. It just sucks because I wouldn't trust either Asham/Lappy/Carcillo to play with Gags and Richards. Briere or Carter would work, but that leaves another hole open.

Gags is still worth his contract but he's no longer a true 1st liner anymore. He's just a very good 2nd liner at this point. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's hard to be a first line player for a long time in this league. You tweak a knee or a groin and you lose that half-step and that's all it takes.

Mr Oysterhead 01-17-2010 07:17 PM

I think Giroux is playing pretty damn well. He hardly has a full season in games under his belt and is close to mirroring his numbers from last year:

2008-09: 42 Games - 9 G, 18 A, 27 Points (13.4 shooting %)
2009-10: 46 Games - 10 G, 18 A, 28 Points (13.7 shooting %)

dbow2019 01-17-2010 07:43 PM

I still want to see the Briere - Giroux - Powe line back...I think that playing with a playmaker like Briere would help Giroux tremendously

flyguy 01-17-2010 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valhoun (Post 23252316)
Gags is still worth his contract but he's no longer a true 1st liner anymore. He's just a very good 2nd liner at this point. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's hard to be a first line player for a long time in this league. You tweak a knee or a groin and you lose that half-step and that's all it takes.

IMO, a guy making 5 million a year should be at a PPG no problem in this league. So I'm going to disagree about Gagne still being worth the money he's making. I love the guy as much as a lot of fans on here. He's been one of my favorite Flyers since he made the team 10 years ago. And it pains me to say that from a business standpoint, if he doesn't take a paycut (about $1 million or more) by the time he needs a new contract, I would let him go.

FlyHigh 01-17-2010 08:16 PM

These things work in cycles, that line has been creating a lot of chances, they just haven't gone in, today they created a couple great ones early, Gagne missed a couple, and Richie hit a post.

I also love JVR on the 3rd line as much as I was against that move at the time.

I really like the way our lines are set up now, need a couple guys to elevate their games and start earning their money, but goalscoring isn't an issue right now and considering everyone in the top-6 is above average defensively besides Briere, I think the D will get better as they continue to learn Lavi's system.

It's a huge benefit to us that our only essential guys going to Vancouver are Richie/Pronger/Kimmo and those are probably our 3 smartest players, the rest of them have 2 weeks to get comfortable in this system.

Giroux tha Damaja 01-17-2010 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy (Post 23254106)
IMO, a guy making 5 million a year should be at a PPG no problem in this league. So I'm going to disagree about Gagne still being worth the money he's making. I love the guy as much as a lot of fans on here. He's been one of my favorite Flyers since he made the team 10 years ago. And it pains me to say that from a business standpoint, if he doesn't take a paycut (about $1 million or more) by the time he needs a new contract, I would let him go.

How many five million dollar contracts are there in the NHL?
How many 82 point players are there?


Hmmmmm....



I will agree to one thing though, Giroux has been dancing through people in transition, dragging D-men with him and then hitting Gagne with a nice pass consistently. Gagne needs to start burying those chances.

flyguy 01-18-2010 12:10 AM

[QUOTE=I am The Mush;23255676]How many five million dollar contracts are there in the NHL?
How many 82 point players are there?

QUOTE]

Just shows how many guys are being overpaid in this league. Maybe I was little harsh with my prior statement, but a forward making at least 5 million should be at least .9 PPG, while playing a significant amount of games. I've stated before, I'm a big Gagne fan, but by his next contract he needs to take a paycut to stay on this team if his production does not improve. Especially with a guy like Carter on the team, who will be expecting a raise come next contract.

buff 01-18-2010 06:13 AM

Giroux is a young player and the finisher of this line should be Gagné....

Kaktus* 01-18-2010 08:04 AM

With out looking at the stats both Richards and Giroux turn the puck over.. Especially Mike this season. Gagne can not finish lately.

Maybe switch things up a little. Put Briere with Mike instead of Giroux and try Giroux with Carter, Briere will finish a lot of scoring chances.

buff 01-18-2010 09:18 AM

IMO Brière should be the playmaker in a line Just like he did in Buffalo. And Brière his a Center too!!! I'd like to see Gagné-Brière-Giroux... (French connection why not??:)) Richards on the third line and on the PP.

Brière is a puck carrier, why the coaching staff didn't use him correctly ?

Anyone can explain that ??

Kaktus* 01-18-2010 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buff (Post 23261404)
IMO Brière should be the playmaker in a line Just like he did in Buffalo. And Brière his a Center too!!! I'd like to see Gagné-Brière-Giroux... (French connection why not??:)) Richards on the third line and on the PP.

Brière is a puck carrier, why the coaching staff didn't use him correctly ?

Anyone can explain that ??

He is really bad on D, thats why. I would not mind seeing him playing center for a few games tough.

Valhoun* 01-18-2010 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buff (Post 23261404)
IMO Brière should be the playmaker in a line Just like he did in Buffalo. And Brière his a Center too!!! I'd like to see Gagné-Brière-Giroux... (French connection why not??:)) Richards on the third line and on the PP.

Brière is a puck carrier, why the coaching staff didn't use him correctly ?

Anyone can explain that ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaktus (Post 23261486)
He is really bad on D, thats why. I would not mind seeing him playing center for a few games tough.

Kaktus pretty much summed it up. Briere gets abused worse than Wolfy's RealDoll replicant of OKT when he's playing center. Though, I am surprised that he hasn't gotten a few games at center under Lavy. It's certainly something that could be experimented with during times when the team really needs a goal. Especially since the uptempo system we have now is a lot closer to what he was used to in Buffalo.

JDinkalage Morgoone 01-18-2010 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valhoun (Post 23262311)
Briere gets abused worse than Wolfy's RealDoll replicant of OKT when he's playing center.

I lol'd :laugh::laugh:

mikedifr 01-19-2010 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbow2019 (Post 23253831)
I still want to see the Briere - Giroux - Powe line back...I think that playing with a playmaker like Briere would help Giroux tremendously

I would love to see Giroux playing with Briere again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy (Post 23254106)
IMO, a guy making 5 million a year should be at a PPG no problem in this league. So I'm going to disagree about Gagne still being worth the money he's making. I love the guy as much as a lot of fans on here. He's been one of my favorite Flyers since he made the team 10 years ago. And it pains me to say that from a business standpoint, if he doesn't take a paycut (about $1 million or more) by the time he needs a new contract, I would let him go.

Someone else mentioned it, but there are MANY more $5 million per year players than 82 point scorers.....You have to factor in that scoring is just one aspect, players get paid for more than just putting up points. (i.e. defense, size, special teams play, leadership, etc.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaktus (Post 23261486)
He is really bad on D, thats why. I would not mind seeing him playing center for a few games tough.

Under Steven's sysem he was terrible on D, he wasnt in Buffalo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valhoun (Post 23262311)
Kaktus pretty much summed it up. Briere gets abused worse than Wolfy's RealDoll replicant of OKT when he's playing center. Though, I am surprised that he hasn't gotten a few games at center under Lavy. It's certainly something that could be experimented with during times when the team really needs a goal. Especially since the uptempo system we have now is a lot closer to what he was used to in Buffalo.

I agree. With the uptempo system, I would love to see him tried at center again....I have been happy with him on the wing, he has been one of our better players lately (although I missed the last two games) but I would like to see Giroux as his center instead of Carter.

As for the Richards line, the issue there is that you have two guys in Richards and Giroux who like to dangle with the puck. The reason lines like Gagne/Forsberg/Knuble and Gagne/Richards/Knuble work out so well is you have all three ingredients you need there in finishing, dirty work and playmaking.

In my opinion, Richards needs to adjust his game with that combination and let Giroux be the primary puck mover/playmaker while he plays more of a grinding role, otherwise, you need to swap Giroux with someone. I would say Powe, but that 3rd line is playing so well together. Richards would play more of the Steve Rucchin role (From the Kariya/Rucchin/Selanne days) and would still put up the points being a better player than Rucchin and his special teams play.

Jester 01-19-2010 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedifr (Post 23283966)
Under Steven's sysem he was terrible on D, he wasnt in Buffalo.

No, he was bad in Buffalo, too. They were just scoring enough to cover it up some. He was +17 with 95 pts. Vanek was +47, and Roy was +37 on that team. Unfortunately, behindthenet wasn't around back then or we could really see his breakdowns.

But defense was absolutely his rap in Buffalo and coming here...he didn't really play it much. Some of it is that he's just too small to lean on anyone at this level with much effect.

Jester 01-19-2010 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy (Post 23258458)
Just shows how many guys are being overpaid in this league. Maybe I was little harsh with my prior statement, but a forward making at least 5 million should be at least .9 PPG, while playing a significant amount of games. I've stated before, I'm a big Gagne fan, but by his next contract he needs to take a paycut to stay on this team if his production does not improve. Especially with a guy like Carter on the team, who will be expecting a raise come next contract.

It's a market/bidding based contract structure...you're worth what someone is willing to pay you. You have to be careful with "overpaid" in that structure, because the reality is that you're worth whatever the market will bear out for you when you're up for a new contract. There are plenty of "underpaid" players by this definition your applying as well...all about timing.

Gagne has 19 pts in 23 games (67 pt pace in an 82 game season)...in a season that has been plagued by injuries. His hands clearly are not all the way there as of now, but lets not make it out like he's a mess.

xxPens8771 01-19-2010 11:45 AM

yinz just need a line like staal in between malkin and crosby they are soo good they can play wing. no big deal. or just travel over to westen pa and become a real hockey fan

Jester 01-19-2010 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxPens8771 (Post 23284238)
yinz just need a line like staal in between malkin and crosby they are soo good they can play wing. no big deal. or just travel over to westen pa and become a real hockey fan

But then you'd be in western PA, and that's just depressing to contemplate.

Kaktus* 01-19-2010 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxPens8771 (Post 23284238)
yinz just need a line like staal in between malkin and crosby they are soo good they can play wing. no big deal. or just travel over to westen pa and become a real hockey fan

or just suck for 5 years if not more.

The best one of course was hiring Hlinka (spelling) as a Pittsburgh head coach. Did he speak English?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedifr (Post 23283966)
Under Steven's sysem he was terrible on D, he wasnt in Buffalo.

Who? I thought we all agreed, even JXC. ;)


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