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-   -   So...how is Hainsey doing? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=74157)

Joe Cole 04-27-2004 08:27 AM

So...how is Hainsey doing?
 
Has anybody watched enough Bulldog games down the stretch and in the playoffs to give an acurate read on his progress/regression?

Has he decided he wants to be a hockey player? Will he really challenge for a spot next year?

thanks

mcphee 04-27-2004 08:44 AM

Joe, before you get any replies, how much have you seen of Hainsey ? I've seen him in 5 or 6 AHL games and haven't seen anything to make me believe he has NHL written on him. His games in Mtl. didn't show much. The only impressive thing I saw is highlights from some pre-season games a few years back. if he wasn't a #1 pick, would we be insisting that he is that talented ? For all I know, he could start a solid 15 yea career next year, but I've seen nothing to be optimistic about.

swiftsure1786 04-27-2004 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphee
Joe, before you get any replies, how much have you seen of Hainsey ? I've seen him in 5 or 6 AHL games and haven't seen anything to make me believe he has NHL written on him. His games in Mtl. didn't show much. The only impressive thing I saw is highlights from some pre-season games a few years back. if he wasn't a #1 pick, would we be insisting that he is that talented ? For all I know, he could start a solid 15 yea career next year, but I've seen nothing to be optimistic about.

I remember that pre-season, he looked really good and then he got injured and hasnt been the same since.

Kerberos* 04-27-2004 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphee
Joe, before you get any replies, how much have you seen of Hainsey ? I've seen him in 5 or 6 AHL games and haven't seen anything to make me believe he has NHL written on him. His games in Mtl. didn't show much. The only impressive thing I saw is highlights from some pre-season games a few years back. if he wasn't a #1 pick, would we be insisting that he is that talented ? For all I know, he could start a solid 15 yea career next year, but I've seen nothing to be optimistic about.

Remember Markov in his first season in the NHL? We all wanted to trade him for a bag of pucks. Now look at Markov now: our best defenseman. Just give Hainsey a bit more time before judging him. I wouldn't trade him unless the price was right (A box of 24 Tim Horton's Tim Bits or one of those big fancy bottles of imported wine).

mcphee 04-27-2004 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiftsure1786
I remember that pre-season, he looked really good and then he got injured and hasnt been the same since.

What injury was that ?

Kerberos* 04-27-2004 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphee
What injury was that ?

Bruised ego. it really takes a long time to heal...

mcphee 04-27-2004 08:59 AM

Sometimes you never get over it.

Munchausen 04-27-2004 09:27 AM

Hainsey does have tremendous talent there's no doubt in my mind. He can move the puck in an effortless fashion, is a very good skater, has smooth mechanics, is big, sees the ice extremely well and has good QBing qualities.

But his weaknesses didn't improve much, which can be attributed to the fact Hainsey seems to think he's the best thing since sliced bread and doesn't need to work on his game. He has almost not progressed at all in 2 years. He lacks focus and comitment in his own zone and will create countless turnovers because of that.

If that guy had Komisarek's attitude, he'd probably become our #1 Dman down the road, but because he does not look willing to learn and put in the necessary efforts, he might not become more than a 3rd pairing guy who will get a bit of PP time. Too much of a liability. Brisebois all over again (times 10).

Guy! 04-27-2004 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerberos
Remember Markov in his first season in the NHL? We all wanted to trade him for a bag of pucks. Now look at Markov now: our best defenseman. Just give Hainsey a bit more time before judging him. I wouldn't trade him unless the price was right (A box of 24 Tim Horton's Tim Bits or one of those big fancy bottles of imported wine).

Speak for yourself. From the very beginning I could see that Markov was something special. He may have made plenty of mistakes, but he did little things that only elite defenders do, and if that took a few years to develop, so be it.

As for Hainsey, I've seen none of those things. He looks like nothing more than Andy Delmore with a ridiculous mullet. Not once did I find myself watching his game thinking, "That's special, something you don't see by the average defender."

Finally, Fetzer Zinfandel. Californian wine and worth a whole lot more than its price. $14.95 Cdn per bottle ($1.50 US) and my regular drinking wine. Wonderful stuff. :D

ACF

Blackshad 04-27-2004 10:03 AM

Ive seen him in a couple of game when he was playing with the Citadelles of Québec. He was the best player on the ice back then.

Habs 04-27-2004 10:16 AM

Hainsey = David Wilke.

Guy Caballero 04-27-2004 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs
Hainsey = David Wilke.

No way. He will play in the NHL next year, guaranteed. Whether it's with the Habs or not is up for debate.

Carbo N8 04-27-2004 11:16 AM

It seems to me the maturation process with him could start in the weight room.

I haven't seem him recently, but, he has always appeared to be a guy with size but not much strength. When you see him he seems to be lacking upper body bulk & in today's NHL, a defenseman needs to be constantly wprking on strength & stamina IMO. He needs to be able to go into the corner with Thornton or Bertuzzi & come out with the puck without having to resort to a penalty because he gets out-muscled.

Seeing him focus on that aspect would be an indication to me that he is getting serious about hockey & would be a big step toward making him a more complete & confident NHL player.

montreal 04-27-2004 11:50 AM

I've seen Hainsey in every NHL game he played (32) and 5-6 times this year and another handfull of times the year before and once with the Citdelles. I have no idea how he is playing since the last game I was at was in january, and the last game on tv was in febuary I think. But from the sounds of it, he's having somewhat of a tough going so far in the playoffs. Can't say for sure, but if the damn sportsnet or the score would show a game of the dogs in the playoffs, I could see for myself. But for now I just listen to the games and he does sound as if he's not playing on the level he was at in last years playoffs.

I never saw him play at UMass, but when I finally saw him when he was a Citadel, he looked great out there. Seemed very calm and confident, had a good skating stride. But having only seen him once, it must have been a good day for him, cause the player I saw in Hamilton is not the same guy. (maybe its the beard he was sporting in Quebec, no beard and all the sudden turnovers and bad pinches :lol ) While he was with the Habs last year I thought he should be sent down. I didn't like his defenisve game and he seemed rattled out there. This year though I thought he looked much better and even scored a nice goal.

I don't know what will happen with Ron's future, but it sounds like he needs to work on either not thinking too much or to start thinking, cause he's got to cut down on the mental errors. I have no problem with him making the errors, cause I'd rather him turn it over in Hamilton then with the Habs, but he needs to learn from these mistakes and not everyone can do that, although it sounds easy.

He does have a good shot from the point, but he'll need to work a lot harder on it, cause that could end up being his bread and butter. If you can put points on the board on a semi consistent basis, then defensive errors can be overlooked from time to time. So either Hainsey needs to learn to play smarter especially in his own end, and to be more physical in the crease, or he'll need to step up his offensive game, as some teams can always use a PP specialists.

I am interested in what Gainey does with Hainsey and Hossa. First I wonder if he keeps them or trades one or both. Then I wonder if he doesn't trade them what kind of contract will he offer them? Neither deserve the 1.2M or so they will need to be qualified at, imo, but we'll see what Gainey does. I'm not ever a big fan of trading prospects, but I do realize that it's something that must be done over time to keep the team competitive. Overtrading and you will risk your future, Undertrading and you could miss out on the high playoff revenue which is so important for the economics of the teams financial health.

Hossa I have always liked, as his shot is wicked and he skates well with good speed. But he's not very physical, his intensity, consistency, and confidence all seem to be big problems for him. I think the kid needs to go home this summer and think hard if he wants to play in the NHL. The last game I was at, was the worst game I have seen from him. He did nothing and was invisible all game until he took a penalty while on the PP. But he has the skills, so for whatever reason he takes some nights off, or refuses to carry the puck for very long streches or looks to pass right away instead off shooting, he is worth keeping around. That said, when you have Higgins right there, and future AHL guys coming up that can play LW in Kastsitsyn, Lambert, Urquhart (if moved, we are deep at center). So if the right offer comes along, Gainey I would think will consider it for sure. If Hossa's not traded, hopefully he comes to camp ready to play in the NHL, if not hopefully Gainey gets something good in return.

Hainsey is in the same boat as Hossa. The waivers rule could be hurting them, as they are either not ready for the NHL (based off what I've seen it's hard to make a case for them to be in the NHL this year and it doesn't get much easier to make a case for next year if not for the wavier rules) Or they are so skilled that they feel they are not focused enough cause of the level of play and skill is below them. Somehow I don't think this is the case. But they could be 2 of the more skilled players on the team and in the league, if they brought there A game consistently. Which makes me wonder what Gainey will do with Hainsey as well. Trade him or see what he can do next year. The kid has some good skills, but needs to get his head into the game. Maybe working him in and out of the lineup while he works with Julien, Green :lol: may be a good thing for him.

This would be a good time for other teams to try and grab one or both, as their value is lower and with the waviers and being RFA's doesn't help matters. But this could force Gainey into keeping one or both cause I can't see him just giving them away.

rocketlives 04-27-2004 12:33 PM

Ron Hainsey
 
I saw all the training camp intra-squad games played in Pierrefonds last September and I thought the best pair of defensemen in those games was Ron Hainsey and François Beauchemin.

Hainsey was difficultd to skate around and cleaned the front of his goalkeeper's net well. He however didn't try to play offensively in those games and rarely got in any kind of trouble.

Hainsey likes to pinch and he won't hesitate driving to the net when he sees an opportunity and that's where he gets in serious trouble against NHL-level competition.

However, I believe that, if he had been given the opportunity to make mistakes as often as Brisebois, Souray or Bouillon without being scratched the next day, i.e. if he had been permitted to learn by his mistakes in the NHL, he'd probaly be Norris material by now. :shakehead

Highlander 04-27-2004 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal
......

Excellent analysis of our prospects Montreal, as always :bow: I agree, it should be interesting to see what Gainey does with Hainsey & Hossa.

I wonder how a lock-out / strike would affect this situation. Would it work in our favour (ie Hainsey & Hossa play in the AHL one more year 'waiver free'), or would we still have to protect / trade / qualify them? Interesting question..... :dunno:

montreal 04-27-2004 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highlander
Excellent analysis of our prospects Montreal, as always :bow: I agree, it should be interesting to see what Gainey does with Hainsey & Hossa.

I wonder how a lock-out / strike would affect this situation. Would it work in our favour (ie Hainsey & Hossa play in the AHL one more year 'waiver free'), or would we still have to protect / trade / qualify them? Interesting question..... :dunno:


Thanks, that's a good question. The lockout is planned for something like September 14th or so (i forget the actual date) and from what I understand they don't have to be protected in the waiver wire (if they even do the waiver draft since it's usually towards the end of sept) but if there's no season, then there shouldn't be any concern for waiver wires but I have no idea cause I don't remember what they did back in shorten season.

I have heard something about players that played in over 50 NHL games would not be allowed to play in the AHL, but I don't know if it was one year or total. Komisarek would be on the bubble and I would hate to see him sit out for a year over some stupid rule. Guess we'll have to see what happens.

Razorblade 04-27-2004 04:56 PM

Terrible. As a fan, you hope that your prospects will develop into their potential, but with Hainsey, I haven't seen anything lately. He played somewhat well in the middle of the season, but has dwindeled ever since. The worst d-man on the Dogs defensively, seems to make one mistake after another. His opening passes are brutal, either behind the intended receiver or he fans on it. I think his confidence is gone, but maybe Hainsey just can't fill the bill most people think about him.

Duster 04-27-2004 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal
.

..."This would be a good time for other teams to try and grab one or both, as their value is lower and with the waviers and being RFA's doesn't help matters. But this could force Gainey into keeping one or both cause I can't see him just giving them away".

It seems neither has made much progress this year. I thought Hainsey was better defensively when I last saw him play in February. Hossa is a disappointment. Perhaps a change of scenery might be beneficial.

I wouldn't be surprised to see one or both gone this summer. You can get a quality player that can improve the team immediately for $2.4 million. Perhaps one or the other can be used to move up in the draft?

Joe Cole 04-28-2004 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal
I've seen Hainsey in every NHL game he played (32) and 5-6 times this year and another handfull of times the year before and once with the Citdelles. I have no idea how he is playing since the last game I was at was in january, and the last game on tv was in febuary I think. .


And that was what I wanted to know. How has he been doing in the AHL down the stretch and in the playoffs.

Joe Cole 04-28-2004 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphee
Joe, before you get any replies, how much have you seen of Hainsey ? I've seen him in 5 or 6 AHL games and haven't seen anything to make me believe he has NHL written on him. His games in Mtl. didn't show much. The only impressive thing I saw is highlights from some pre-season games a few years back. if he wasn't a #1 pick, would we be insisting that he is that talented ? For all I know, he could start a solid 15 yea career next year, but I've seen nothing to be optimistic about.


I have seen all the NHL games, and two televised AHL games early this year. I aslo say him at the pre-season practices in Pierrefonds.

I gather that the reason you ask is that you feel if someone has seen any games with Hainsey, he wouldn't ask, Hainsey doesn't warrant hope in your opinion. Right?

Well, in my opinion, defensemen take much linger to mature at the pro level. I agree, Hainsey has not sparkled with the Habs in those games. Was he any worse then other guys we had/have on the blue line (Dykhuis, Quintal, Traverse)? I say, no. From what I hear 2nd hand, he has a poor attitude, and this is the true reason that he stopped his own development.

So, yes I have seen the NHL games. No he wasn't the second coming of Robinson. Yes he was a 1st round pick. Yes he has proven to be a head case.

My question was, has he developped?

mcphee 04-28-2004 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Cole

I gather that the reason you ask is that you feel if someone has seen any games with Hainsey, he wouldn't ask, Hainsey doesn't warrant hope in your opinion. Right?


My question was, has he developped?

I don't know that I meant that, I was curious as to your opinion of him before getting Montreal's analysis, or Razorblades' who gives good updates on the Hamilton guy. He may be a helluva player, but personally, I haven't seen anything that excites me. Actually,I'll contradict myself, in the WJC, I remember noticing that he had good touch and instincts with the puck. I agree that D men take longer to develop. I asked the way I did, because I wanted to know if you saw something I didn't. There is a lot of hyperbole around prospects, but that's not your style, so I was curious. There are players that have people raving about their potential and sometimes I don't know why. Style wise, Hainsey seems to play a Larry Murphy like game in an era when those types of players aren't getting much of a chance. I've never been much at projecting these guys though.

Joe Cole 04-29-2004 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphee
I don't know that I meant that, I was curious as to your opinion of him before getting Montreal's analysis, or Razorblades' who gives good updates on the Hamilton guy. He may be a helluva player, but personally, I haven't seen anything that excites me. Actually,I'll contradict myself, in the WJC, I remember noticing that he had good touch and instincts with the puck. I agree that D men take longer to develop. I asked the way I did, because I wanted to know if you saw something I didn't. There is a lot of hyperbole around prospects, but that's not your style, so I was curious. There are players that have people raving about their potential and sometimes I don't know why. Style wise, Hainsey seems to play a Larry Murphy like game in an era when those types of players aren't getting much of a chance. I've never been much at projecting these guys though.

mcphee, thanks for your response. My opinion is based on the NHL games I saw, and from what I have heard regarding his attitude from people like McGuire. My info is getting old, and I was wondering if there was credible new info.

From what I saw, he has good size, moves well, but lacks an urgency to his game. His tentativeness on the ice does not match the bravado that most attribute to him off the ice. (Hollywood Hainsey)

I just wanted to know if he was closer to being an every day player in the NHL or an extra on the set of the O.C. or whatever else 15 year olds think is dramatic TV. ;)

I usually do not take the opinions of the "Hossa is God" "Perezoghin will score 100 goals in the NHL next year" type posters too seriously, but I do of those of people who have seen a few generations of prospects, and how they really pan out.

You are not one of the "over hype the kids" type, obviously. And that is why I always scan new posts to see if you have weighed in.

So.... I wonder if this kid will be a Hab next year, or the year after... or .... will he the guy who is having an affair with the school's coolest hipster's mom (on the O.C.)?

mcphee 04-29-2004 01:32 PM

My older daughter told me that she and her roomates watch that show, but afterwards, they're embarassed and don't make eye contact.

Joe Cole 04-29-2004 01:46 PM

;)


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