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-   -   Simon Gagné Appreciation Thread (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=748541)

infidelappel* 03-10-2010 10:42 AM

Simon Gagné Appreciation Thread
 
People have been ragging pretty hard on Gags for much of this season, especially during that drought, but the man is absolutely on fire right now. He's the longest tenured Flyer, a great ambassador for the club, and all around nice guy.

I hope his recent scoring prowess is here to stay, and I think it might be. He looks confident, he's making moves, and driving to the slot and getting goals in the high traffic areas like he used to. Last night I said early in the game that he looked good and would score, and he did (even if it was a pass attempt off of Streit's stick, he's still manufacturing chances for himself and they're bound to fall at some point).

Simon, I salute you.

MCAKES 03-10-2010 10:45 AM

my favorite flyer. i am so impressed by his defensive game its not even funny. even if he is slowing down offensively, which he may or may not, his back checking and positional play is still phenominal. i hope to god they keep him around and retires a flyer

DUHockey9 03-10-2010 10:48 AM

He's been my favorite player since he made the team his rookie year. I'm glad to see the puck finding the net for him. Even when he isn't scoring, he's contributing.

CptCannon 03-10-2010 10:57 AM

He was dire before his hot streak, good to see him finding his game as the poffs are getting closer and closer. He has the potential to score those game seven GWG's.


As someone said in the Isles GDT: Olympics should be more often :laugh:

claude boivin lives 03-10-2010 11:12 AM

Sorry to rain on your appreciation thread, but Gagne pisses me off to no end sometimes. At this point, were it not for the fact that he's been on the team for so long and that I was once such a big fan of his, I'd want his ass out of here. I get that he's got concussion issues and is going to shy away from some of the physical play...but the extent to which he does so is just way too much. And compared to most other guys in this league, he's just got no heart. It pains me to say that, but it's true. Even when it comes to the things he's supposed to be best at...his two-way game is a little overrated, he's not that great of a defensive player. He gives up on the play all the time. And in some of these recent games in which he's scored, he hasn't even been very good...last night in particular. He had a ****** game last night. Richards and Carcillo were out there wreaking havoc, creating all kinds of opportunities, and Gags was just useless most of the night, and botching the opportunities he was given. For a long time I was against the idea of him leaving town, mainly because of his history here. But at this point, I'd be okay with it. I'd be willing to sign him for maybe about $3m per, but I doubt he'd take it...it'd probably be especially hard for him to accept considering what Briere is making. Hey, there's another reason Briere's contract sucks.

CS 03-10-2010 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claude boivin lives (Post 24412958)
Sorry to rain on your appreciation thread, but Gagne pisses me off to no end sometimes. At this point, were it not for the fact that he's been on the team for so long and that I was once such a big fan of his, I'd want his ass out of here. I get that he's got concussion issues and is going to shy away from some of the physical play...but the extent to which he does so is just way too much. And compared to most other guys in this league, he's just got no heart. It pains me to say that, but it's true. Even when it comes to the things he's supposed to be best at...his two-way game is a little overrated, he's not that great of a defensive player. He gives up on the play all the time. And in some of these recent games in which he's scored, he hasn't even been very good...last night in particular. He had a ****** game last night. Richards and Carcillo were out there wreaking havoc, creating all kinds of opportunities, and Gags was just useless most of the night. For a long time I was against the idea of him leaving town, mainly because of his history here. But at this point, I'd be okay with it. I'd be willing to sign him for maybe about $3m per, but I doubt he'd take it...it'd probably be especially hard for him to accept considering what Briere is making. Hey, there's another reason Briere's contract sucks.

This post may be the biggest crime against humanity since Sidney Crosby won gold in OT after not doing anything for an entire tournament.

claude boivin lives 03-10-2010 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 24412993)
This post may be the biggest crime against humanity since ESPN's Brett Favre coverage.

It's very sad that you'd say that, especially considering you're apparently a writer for this site.

sa cyred 03-10-2010 11:17 AM

Meh. I think since he scored that goal against the Debs, he has been awesome. You can see he is getting his step back. He is starting to dangle like he used to back in the day. Earlier this season, and even last season, he would pass the puck right when he got it. He is starting to hold onto it more, which he is good at.

infidelappel* 03-10-2010 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claude boivin lives (Post 24412958)
Sorry to rain on your appreciation thread, but Gagne pisses me off to no end sometimes. At this point, were it not for the fact that he's been on the team for so long and that I was once such a big fan of his, I'd want his ass out of here. I get that he's got concussion issues and is going to shy away from some of the physical play...but the extent to which he does so is just way too much. And compared to most other guys in this league, he's just got no heart. It pains me to say that, but it's true. Even when it comes to the things he's supposed to be best at...his two-way game is a little overrated, he's not that great of a defensive player. He gives up on the play all the time. And in some of these recent games in which he's scored, he hasn't even been very good...last night in particular. He had a ****** game last night. Richards and Carcillo were out there wreaking havoc, creating all kinds of opportunities, and Gags was just useless most of the night, and botching the opportunities he was given. For a long time I was against the idea of him leaving town, mainly because of his history here. But at this point, I'd be okay with it. I'd be willing to sign him for maybe about $3m per, but I doubt he'd take it...it'd probably be especially hard for him to accept considering what Briere is making. Hey, there's another reason Briere's contract sucks.

Seriously, dude? I mean, really?

He hasn't been shying away from the slot at all, he's going to the hard areas of the ice and that's why he's getting goals - and he's risking physical contact to do so. He's also taken some hits to make plays, held onto the puck and tried to dangle more (and is seeing success in that area) and has continued asserting himself physically.

The other night in Toronto, he even cut Phaneuf off at the pass when he was going after Richards (or maybe it was Carcillo). You're telling me he has no heart or effort and is afraid if he's going to man up to Phaneuf to prevent him from going after a teammate?

Also, I haven't seen him give up on any plays lately. Watch him on the back check, he's almost always the first guy back.

I admit I'm a huge fan of his, and my lenses might be a tiny bit rosy, but you and I must not be watching the same games.

CS 03-10-2010 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claude boivin lives (Post 24413009)
It's very sad that you'd say that, especially considering you're apparently a writer for this site.

Changed it from Brett Favre because he's no longer recent.

Anyway, I will make my point now.

Quote:

I get that he's got concussion issues and is going to shy away from some of the physical play.
I don't blame him for not playing as physical post-concussion. He was one of the league's most outspoken players about concussion issues. Remember last year when he was having an incredible start to the season? He was right behind Malkin for the first two months of the season until he was hit dangerously by a Canadien player. I think it was Markov. He flipped his lid at the league. The league did nothing. He slowed down considerably. He hasn't been back to form really since recovering just now. We'll see how he reacts.

Quote:

And compared to most other guys in this league, he's just got no heart.
You don't have to play physical to have heart. I understand hockey is a physical game, but this "heart" you speak of is pushing yourself to make things happen. Gagne pushes himself on every shift. Just because he's not banging around in the corner doesn't mean that he isn't chasing down loose pucks and skating into the slot. Gagne is never going to be a banger and crasher. He never was. He has enough physicality to fight for loose pucks, but he keeps himself safe. I don't blame him.

Quote:

Even when it comes to the things he's supposed to be best at...his two-way game is a little overrated, he's not that great of a defensive player.
Datsyuk's overrated. Richards is overrated. Carter is overrated. Everyone's overrated defensively.

Quote:

He gives up on the play all the time.
Or does he backcheck using his top flight speed to break up odd-man rushes while letting bangers and crashers try to cause turnovers? How much of his "giving up on the play" part of his duty to be defensively responsible.

Quote:

And in some of these recent games in which he's scored, he hasn't even been very good...last night in particular. Richards and Carcillo were out there wreaking havoc, creating all kinds of opportunities, and Gags was just useless most of the night, and botching the opportunities he was given.
He was pretty good last night. As for botching opportunities, everyone can't score every time they have the opportunity to.

MCAKES 03-10-2010 11:49 AM

as of late he certainly has gotten more physical as well. just like a pro ball player getting plunked the the head (ie david wright) yeah im a mets fan... one would have some tendencies for a bit to hop right back into a situation where something potentially devastating could happen

DUHockey9 03-10-2010 11:58 AM

Quote:

Sorry to rain on your appreciation thread, but Gagne pisses me off to no end sometimes. At this point, were it not for the fact that he's been on the team for so long and that I was once such a big fan of his, I'd want his ass out of here. I get that he's got concussion issues and is going to shy away from some of the physical play...but the extent to which he does so is just way too much.
Except he has never been physical...like at all. I'm pretty sure the only punch he's ever thrown, he managed to dislocate his shoulder on, and missed significant time. One of my only gripes about Gagne ever, was that he has decent size (not big, but not small by any means) and that he's really a pure finesse player. However, this is nothing new. He uses his speed, his shot, and his brains to make plays.

Quote:

And compared to most other guys in this league, he's just got no heart. It pains me to say that, but it's true. Even when it comes to the things he's supposed to be best at...his two-way game is a little overrated, he's not that great of a defensive player.
He gets a ton of PK time on this team for a reason. He always has...for a reason. And if he were on a team without a Betts and Laperierre, he would get even more. There is also a reason at the end of the game last night it was Richards, Carter, and Gagne on the ice to finish a 1 goal game. Also, If he truly were overrated defensively, I'm pretty sure 1 of his 6 (or was it 7) head coaches would have realized it and not played him as if he was a good defensive player.

Quote:

He gives up on the play all the time. And in some of these recent games in which he's scored, he hasn't even been very good...last night in particular. He had a ****** game last night. Richards and Carcillo were out there wreaking havoc, creating all kinds of opportunities, and Gags was just useless most of the night, and botching the opportunities he was given.
I don't know what to say. I guess we are watching different things. My only complaint of Gagne recently was at the same tim Richards was struggling. They both appeared to be trying to do a bit too much, and thinking rather than reacting. But....that was a while ago, and since, both players have been great.

claude boivin lives 03-10-2010 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DUHockey9 (Post 24413664)
Except he has never been physical...like at all. I'm pretty sure the only punch he's ever thrown, he managed to dislocate his shoulder on, and missed significant time. One of my only gripes about Gagne ever, was that he has decent size (not big, but not small by any means) and that he's really a pure finesse player. However, this is nothing new. He uses his speed, his shot, and his brains to make plays.

That's true, and I admit that I don't accept that as well as I should. I never was happy about his lack of physicality, but as he matured it became more bothersome to me. I guess when he was younger, I cut him a break for a long time because he was pretty small. But he's developed into, as you said, a decent size. Not big, but definitely not small, and clearly pretty damn strong on his skates. And while he does typically use his speed, his shot, and his brains to make plays....the brains don't seem to be all there lately.

I dunno, I just find him driving me more nuts than ever these days. He may never have been very physical, but he used to play the body more. I'm aware of the concussion issues, but for me there are still too many inexcusable instances of not taking the body. He almost never initiates physical contact. Sure, he'll take some punishment if he absolutely has to, but for christ's sake finish a ******* check once in a while. I hate that Carter doesn't finish his checks enough, and he does it about 10x more often than Gagne. And that **** that you see players like him and Briere do...that halfhearted bump into the player who just let go of the puck...it's a joke, they might as well not even bother. Another thing him and Briere have in common is the attitude with which they pursue opposing puck carriers on the forecheck. They both have that same approach where they skate towards the guy with their stick waving because it's what they're supposed to do. Just like they bump halfheartedly into guys who just let go of the puck because they're supposed to finish their checks. They don't come down into the zone and attack the puckcarrier with the belief that they can really steal that puck. They don't carry the mindset in that regard of Richards, Powe, Carter, Giroux, etc, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DUHockey9 (Post 24413664)
He gets a ton of PK time on this team for a reason. He always has...for a reason. And if he were on a team without a Betts and Laperierre, he would get even more. There is also a reason at the end of the game last night it was Richards, Carter, and Gagne on the ice to finish a 1 goal game. Also, If he truly were overrated defensively, I'm pretty sure 1 of his 6 (or was it 7) head coaches would have realized it and not played him as if he was a good defensive player.

I'll agree that he's ok on the PK, but I've never found him to be oustanding at it. And I'm not saying that he's not good defensively, or that he's not better than some of our other players. I'm just saying I think he's a little overrated as compared to people's general opinion of him. Flyers fans often talk about how he's one of the top defensive forwards in the game. I don't agree with that. There was a thread on the main board last year arguing he should've won the Selke. Laughable.


Quote:

Originally Posted by DUHockey9 (Post 24413664)
I don't know what to say. I guess we are watching different things. My only complaint of Gagne recently was at the same tim Richards was struggling. They both appeared to be trying to do a bit too much, and thinking rather than reacting. But....that was a while ago, and since, both players have been great.

Well, I don't know what to say to you, if you think, for instance, that Gagne had a good game last night. I def agree about Richards, though.

mypetmeatball 03-10-2010 03:38 PM

If he wasn't made of glass he would be a franchise player possibly worth building around - not like the Flyers ever really let themselves "build" persay

HoverCarle* 03-10-2010 03:42 PM

I will always love Gagne. Hopefully he takes a paycut next contract due to his injury proness.

If we could get gagne at 3.5 I dont think people would complain about him


And Claude when I saw some site do really complex defensive forward rankings based on a lo0t of different stats, Gagne was in the top 30. He is not a "shutdown" guy but he is like Hossa or someone who is a good 2 way winger, who usually knows where to be and what to do in defensive situations.

DeadPhish5858 03-10-2010 03:52 PM

Ever since I started wearing my Gagne jersey over Giroux or Forsberg he's been scoring.

DrHamburg 03-10-2010 04:11 PM

Wow, I have felt since the olympic break Simon Gagne has looked about 20 times better than he did early in the season and prebreak. He might not be the 40 goal scorer, but Ive felt since the break he has been extremely productive. Not a big sample size but a good start.

infidelappel* 03-10-2010 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 (Post 24417962)
Ever since I started wearing my Gagne jersey over Giroux or Forsberg he's been scoring.

I recommend you continue wearing it, then.

This team needs him to keep producing.

Scoopyten 03-10-2010 05:20 PM

I cheer for Gagne only because he is a Flyer. He's never been an especially favorite player of mine. He is a very talented player, I've just never really been that enamored of him.

McNasty 03-10-2010 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claude boivin lives (Post 24412958)
Sorry to rain on your appreciation thread, but Gagne pisses me off to no end sometimes. At this point, were it not for the fact that he's been on the team for so long and that I was once such a big fan of his, I'd want his ass out of here. I get that he's got concussion issues and is going to shy away from some of the physical play...but the extent to which he does so is just way too much. And compared to most other guys in this league, he's just got no heart. It pains me to say that, but it's true. Even when it comes to the things he's supposed to be best at...his two-way game is a little overrated, he's not that great of a defensive player. He gives up on the play all the time. And in some of these recent games in which he's scored, he hasn't even been very good...last night in particular. He had a ****** game last night. Richards and Carcillo were out there wreaking havoc, creating all kinds of opportunities, and Gags was just useless most of the night, and botching the opportunities he was given. For a long time I was against the idea of him leaving town, mainly because of his history here. But at this point, I'd be okay with it. I'd be willing to sign him for maybe about $3m per, but I doubt he'd take it...it'd probably be especially hard for him to accept considering what Briere is making. Hey, there's another reason Briere's contract sucks.

I agree with you about last night, Gagne was very hesitant and even the goal he scored he was forcing a pass to Richards. However you can't take away how hes played in the other games. The goal he scored against Toronto was vintage gagne and something I hope we see more of. I was as tough as anyone on him, and I'm happy to see him shooting more, but hes still holding the puck too long and forcing passes when he needs to just shoot.

Bryz4shiz 03-10-2010 10:58 PM

I love Gags. In every video game hes always a 40+ goal guy with 90+ points. It always makes me sad, because he's just been too hurt to play to his potential.

Lomark 03-12-2010 07:22 AM

I'm contemplating digging up the other thread about Gagne, started... I don't know, 1 month ago? Some amazing quotes to be found there for sure:laugh:

jb** 03-12-2010 07:39 AM

thanks for the great years of service, now please waive your ntc this summer.

Lomark 03-12-2010 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWO (Post 24452916)
thanks for the great years of service, now please waive your ntc this summer.

Hey NWO I have seen you critizising alot of players and suggesting them being dropped, traded, waived, bought out, whatever...

Just out of interest, what would be your preferred lines for next season? How many players coming back?




Oh and I forgot to reply to you in another thread "ofc" usually means of course.

jb** 03-12-2010 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lomark (Post 24452957)
Hey NWO I have seen you critizising alot of players and suggesting them being dropped, traded, waived, bought out, whatever...

Just out of interest, what would be your preferred lines for next season? How many players coming back?




Oh and I forgot to reply to you in another thread "ofc" usually means of course.

Havent criticized nearly has many as you may think. What i have said is they need to move guys that are making a lot of $ to move forward. Hartnell is first, carle would be next. I liek Gagne but right now he isnt worth his 5mm and if you can move him you do it, same with briere.

Right now what you see is what will be the team next season imo with a few guys(like asham) in and out. The will need a goalie and hopefully shooter doesnt tie a load on and give leighton a multi year deal fro big bucks. The top guys will not be moved probably by this gm. This is why they will continue to be an avg team for the foreseeable future. Start with getting a goalie and go from there. No reason they cant with the right moves be on top in the conf.
unless some moves are made. Bold moves.


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