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chosen 03-16-2010 10:41 AM

Grachev
 
Questions for those that see him regularly:

1. Statistically he is running far behind expectations and projections posted here before the season. How has he looked?

2. At a fairly similar point in his career, Anisimov tore up the AHL. Is Grachev now considered less of a prospect than Anisimov?

3. Is it possible that Grachev could end up the next Jessiman, or has he demonstrated more than Jessiman, to date?

I'm only interested in your opinions if you've seen him play a fair amount of games. Telling me he is young and that I should be patient is unimportant to me. I already know he's young. I just want to know what people who see him are currently thinking.

Thanks in advance for any meaningful input.

Levitate 03-16-2010 10:46 AM

It's been talked to death in the Wolfpack thread, and no, Anisimov did not tear up the AHL at the same age

edit: here are the bests posts about him:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=518

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=231

hlundqvist30* 03-16-2010 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 24528976)
Questions for those that see him regularly:

1. Statistically he is running far behind expectations and projections posted here before the season. How has he looked?

2. At a fairly similar point in his career, Anisimov tore up the AHL. Is Grachev now considered less of a prospect than Anisimov?

3. Is it possible that Grachev could end up the next Jessiman, or has he demonstrated more than Jessiman, to date?

I'm only interested in your opinions if you've seen him play a fair amount of games. Telling me he is young and that I should be patient is unimportant to me. I already know he's young. I just want to know what people who see him are currently thinking.

Thanks in advance for any meaningful input.

1. Don't really see how he is "far behind expecations" statistically. Only there are only 1 or 2 players in the AHL this year who both have more points than he does and also is the same age. No, he hasn't been on fire, but he's hardly been dreadful.

2. How is Grachev at a similar point in his career as Anisimov last year? Anisimov was in his second year in the AHL when he tore it up. In his first year he put up 44 points, roughly the same amount Grachev will end up with this year.

3. I don't really get the Jessiman comparison. Jessiman was a top 10 pick who completely fell apart. Grachev was a third rounder in his first year of professional hockey. If you're trying to ask if he can bust, of course, just like any prospect can. For all we know Taylor Hall may never play an NHL game. It's stupid to question Grachev's career after one decent AHL season as a 19 year old.

Bleed Ranger Blue 03-16-2010 10:53 AM

Grachev is old news. The shiny new toys (Kreider and Stepan) are now the toast of the town. :sarcasm:

Carlos Ranger 03-16-2010 10:54 AM

Anisimov played a season and change of pro hockey before the AHL. This is Grachev's first pro experience. Comparing them at the same age, of course Anisimov was a little better. This doesn't mean he's the next Jessiman, it just means people were setting their expectations way too high for Grachev this year.

Just look up other Russian stars first few years of pro hockey. Malkin, Ovechkin, almost anyone at age 18-19.. Not comparing them, but they all struggled at one point, and weren't superstars from the get-go.

ogie 03-16-2010 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shat Scar (Post 24529217)
it just means people were setting their expectations way too high for Grachev this year.

people have been setting their expectations way too high for him since his first prospects camp. I love the people that list future lineups and its all prospects. The idea that some guys will just never make it is like greek to them. Some players no matter how good they were in juniors/college/abroad just cant hack it at the nhl level. Not saying that Grachev won't make it, but people seem to put way too much stock in prospects around this board.

dtrap 03-16-2010 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue (Post 24529197)
Grachev is old news. The shiny new toys (Kreider and Stepan) are now the toast of the town. :sarcasm:

Until we make our first round pick this year :sarcasm:

msv957 03-16-2010 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue (Post 24529197)
Grachev is old news. The shiny new toys (Kreider and Stepan) are now the toast of the town. :sarcasm:

Haha... so True.... last year at this time Grachev was the Shiny new toy... now it is Kreider and Stepan...

We all just need to sit back and just let these prospects develop... but that is a difficult thing to do as it is kind of fun just projecting what a prospect will be at the NHL level.....

Not sure what to think of Grachev... He is young.. but you don't want to hear that.. LOL He was drafted 2 years ago so has had (2) years to develop since his draft year which is important.... I think next year is a big year to see what Grachev has at AHL level.... Maybe there was a reason he was drafted in the third round as prospects such as Grachev take time to develop.

I do believe the honest fans would say Grachev has been somewhat of a disapointment this year playing at the AHL level based on what he demonstated at the WJC championship last year.

Jumbo* 03-16-2010 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msv957 (Post 24530236)
Haha... so True.... last year at this time Grachev was the Shiny new toy... now it is Kreider and Stepan...

We all just need to sit back and just let these prospects develop... but that is a difficult thing to do as it is kind of fun just projecting what a prospect will be at the NHL level.....

Not sure what to think of Grachev... He is young.. but you don't want to hear that.. LOL He was drafted 2 years ago so has had (2) years to develop since his draft year which is important.... I think next year is a big year to see what Grachev has at AHL level.... Maybe there was a reason he was drafted in the third round as prospects such as Grachev take time to develop.

He was drafted in the 3rd round because teams were afraid he wouldn't come over from Russia.

I'm not sure why anyone would be worried with Grachev. It was his first pro season and he was one of the youngest players in the AHL. Sure there is definitely an adjustment period for him from Juniors to the Pro level, but it's not like he is overwhelmed at the level.

Patience folks.

Synergy27 03-16-2010 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 24528976)
Questions for those that see him regularly:

1. Statistically he is running far behind expectations and projections posted here before the season. How has he looked?

2. At a fairly similar point in his career, Anisimov tore up the AHL. Is Grachev now considered less of a prospect than Anisimov?

3. Is it possible that Grachev could end up the next Jessiman, or has he demonstrated more than Jessiman, to date?

I'm only interested in your opinions if you've seen him play a fair amount of games. Telling me he is young and that I should be patient is unimportant to me. I already know he's young. I just want to know what people who see him are currently thinking.

Thanks in advance for any meaningful input.

Seriously? The guy was a 3rd rounder, not a questionable #12 overall in one of the all-time greatest NHL drafts. If Grachev completely busts it would suck, but it won't set the franchise back years like the Jessiman pick did.

msv957 03-16-2010 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogie (Post 24529510)
people have been setting their expectations way too high for him since his first prospects camp. I love the people that list future lineups and its all prospects. The idea that some guys will just never make it is like greek to them. Some players no matter how good they were in juniors/college/abroad just cant hack it at the nhl level. Not saying that Grachev won't make it, but people seem to put way too much stock in prospects around this board.

Agreed 100%... but it is fun to project a future lineup based on shiny pimple faced prospects!! LOL

NYR Viper 03-16-2010 12:05 PM

The team in Hartford has been horrible. To directly relate the teams Anisimov played on to this team this season is a mistake.

Jumbo* 03-16-2010 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 (Post 24530336)
The team in Hartford has been horrible. To directly relate the teams Anisimov played on to this team this season is a mistake.

Good point also. Anismov played on a team was was at the top of the conference each year, Grachev is playing on probably the worst Wolf Pack team in a decade.

msv957 03-16-2010 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synergy27 (Post 24530315)
Seriously? The guy was a 3rd rounder, not a questionable #12 overall in one of the all-time greatest NHL drafts. If Grachev completely busts it would suck, but it won't set the franchise back years like the Jessiman pick did.

Man...that 2003 Draft was awesome... so many great players.. You could be right as it could be the best draft of all time

Both the Rangers (Jessiman) and Isles (Nilsson) first round picks busted and really set both teams back... but of course the Devils hit a home run with Parise...

wa2k99 03-16-2010 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 (Post 24530336)
The team in Hartford has been horrible. To directly relate the teams Anisimov played on to this team this season is a mistake.

HFD has been decimated by injuries. It's not all about lack of talent. Plus their goalies were changing every other day for three months!

Radek27 03-16-2010 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogie (Post 24529510)
people have been setting their expectations way too high for him since his first prospects camp. I love the people that list future lineups and its all prospects. The idea that some guys will just never make it is like greek to them. Some players no matter how good they were in juniors/college/abroad just cant hack it at the nhl level. Not saying that Grachev won't make it, but people seem to put way too much stock in prospects around this board.

I hate posts like that where all 6 of our D are propsects and we have like one veteran on the whole team in Gaborik. I just chalk those posts up to the kids missing thier NHL 10.

Radek27 03-16-2010 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wa2k99 (Post 24531069)
HFD has been decimated by injuries. It's not all about lack of talent. Plus their goalies were changing every other day for three months!

C'mon call up some guys from the ECHL if thats the case. The injury excuse never flew for me in any sport, nevermind at the minor league level.

nyr2k2 03-16-2010 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radek27 (Post 24531667)
C'mon call up some guys from the ECHL if thats the case. The injury excuse never flew for me in any sport, nevermind at the minor league level.

The ECHL team doesn't have much to offer the AHL squad... Devin DiDiomete, David Urquhart, Mike Taylor...Matt Schepke maybe? Hillier is still injured and sucks anyway, and Zaborsky is in Europe. Wiikman has been garbage, as has Zaba. There's just not much help for them right now.

EDIT: And again, I forgot we traded Wiikman. :laugh:

squishy 03-16-2010 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 24528976)
1. Statistically he is running far behind expectations and projections posted here before the season. How has he looked?

He's looked like a 19-year old kid who hasn't quite caught up to the speed of the game being played around him. Sometimes he looks great, other times he looks absolutely clueless.

I won't comment on expectations and projections because I've been saying all season that most people's expectations and projections were ridiculously high.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 24528976)
2. At a fairly similar point in his career, Anisimov tore up the AHL.

Not true. As a 19-year old AHL rookie Anisimov scored 43 points in 74 games. Hardly tearing up the AHL. You can't compare Anisimov's sophomore numbers -- his point-per-game season -- to Grachev's rookie totals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 24528976)
Is Grachev now considered less of a prospect than Anisimov?

I've always thought Anisimov was a better prospect than Grachev, but that's not a very popular opinion around these parts. Grachev may be bigger, faster, stronger and have a better shot, but Anisimov thinks the game better. You can improve size, strength, speed and shot, you can't teach hockey sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 24528976)
3. Is it possible that Grachev could end up the next Jessiman, or has he demonstrated more than Jessiman, to date?

Sorry, but the comparison is utterly ridiculous. Grachev was a third round pick, Jessiman was a top-20 first rounder. And regardless of what some might say, the transfer agreement was not the only reason Grachev was picked in the third round. He wasn't a top 10 pick that fell over concerns he wouldn't come over. He was and is a project.

And yes, Grachev has already demonstrated most than Jessiman did. As a 22-year old rookie pro Jessiman couldn't even stick in the AHL, and spent half the season in the ECHL. Grachev hasn't been scoring, but he also hasn't shown signs of not being able to hack it in the AHL.

ogie 03-16-2010 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radek27 (Post 24531642)
I hate posts like that where all 6 of our D are propsects and we have like one veteran on the whole team in Gaborik. I just chalk those posts up to the kids missing thier NHL 10.

i chalk it up to people realizing that when we draft its not for one team but in reality three. someones gotta play in Hartford and Charlotte.

eco's bones 03-16-2010 02:27 PM

I've only seen Grachev on occasions this year but he seems more the power forward type and those kinds of players sometimes take time to max out their potential--it may be he just needs to simplify the strengths in the game. With respect to Kreider--that shiny new toy might also project to be the power forward type but even with all that he is a superior skater to Grachev. In both cases patience is needed.

nyr2k2 03-16-2010 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eco's bones (Post 24533140)
I've only seen Grachev on occasions this year but he seems more the power forward type and those kinds of players sometimes take time to max out their potential--it may be he just needs to simplify the strengths in the game. With respect to Kreider--that shiny new toy might also project to be the power forward type but even with all that he is a superior skater to Grachev. In both cases patience is needed.

Which is a testament to Kreider's skating, considering Grachev is a fine skater in his own right.

Anyway, I thought something like 20-20 would be a good season for Grachev. Now he's obviously not going to hit that, but I bet he'd be much closer if the Pack wasn't altogether awful this season.

If I rated Grachev's season 1-5, 5 being "great," 3 being "fine," then I'd give him a 3.

SupersonicMonkey* 03-16-2010 03:09 PM

Stepan is a shiny new toy?

News flash: Stepan was drafted BEFORE Grachev. 2nd round, same year.

And Kreider's development is at a better rate. He isn't playing against 16-17 year old kids in his first year after being drafted like Grachev was.

Also, its such a pointless comment "shiny new toy" these guys are all Rangers prospects.

No body forgot about Grachev, he just hasn't had a fantastic season. He's going through a learning process.

ogie 03-16-2010 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey (Post 24534017)
Stepan is a shiny new toy?

yes people didn't really know what we had in him until the WJ championship and we saw him compete with top Canadian super prospects. It's not a new toy until you get to see it in action.

hlundqvist30* 03-16-2010 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey (Post 24534017)
Stepan is a shiny new toy?

News flash: Stepan was drafted BEFORE Grachev. 2nd round, same year.

And Kreider's development is at a better rate. He isn't playing against 16-17 year old kids in his first year after being drafted like Grachev was.

Also, its such a pointless comment "shiny new toy" these guys are all Rangers prospects.

No body forgot about Grachev, he just hasn't had a fantastic season. He's going through a learning process.

But Stepan didn't really break out of his shell until this year at the WJC. It's not so much the shiny new toy as it is "what have you done for me lately." Grachev will be fine.


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