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-   -   The Key to the Sharks Success: Demers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=751260)

TrappedInFullerton 03-16-2010 11:28 PM

I posted this in the GDT, but don't think many are taking notice, so, figured I'd make a thread for it.

The Sharks are 30-9-6 with Demers in the lineup. That means the Sharks are 13-7-4 without him. It looks a lot better with him in the lineup...

Demers provides the Sharks with something the desperately need... a second defenseman that can MOVE THE PUCK UP THE ICE. Blake, Leach, Huskins, Wallin, Murray... they can't skate the puck up the ice like Boyle and Demers can. The Sharks need 2 mobile defensemen, just like last year with Boyle and Ehrhoff...

The Sharks have scored 153 goals and given up 114 in the 45 games he's played. Without Demers, the Sharks have scored 73 goals and given up 66 in 23 games. By extrapolating those numbers we find that the Sharks are scoring less and giving up about the same amount of goals without Demers.

The Sharks also need him on the point of the PP... Murray isn't working out and neither will any of the other defensemen. None of them are offensive defensemen.

In conclusion... if the Sharks want to start winning again, they need to quit with the Leach experiment and bring Demers back into the fold.

I just looked at the standings again and I got my stats before they updated with tonight's game, so I changed them, which makes the goals for and against even worse (obviously 8 goals against will do that).

Eid Ma Clack Shaw 03-16-2010 11:32 PM

Agreed on all counts. I would even be fine with Demers in as a 7th D and getting rid of one of the forwards.

Kitten Mittons 03-16-2010 11:32 PM

I think it has something to do with the Sharks starting hot and finishing cold, like they usually do.

Still, I prefer him over Huskins.

Boyle-Murray
Blake-Vlasic
Wallin-Demers

Nighthock 03-16-2010 11:34 PM

Boyle-Murray
Wallin-Vlasic
Huskins-Demers

TrappedInFullerton 03-16-2010 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackholesun (Post 24547881)
Agreed on all counts. I would even be fine with Demers in as a 7th D and getting rid of one of the forwards.

I was thinking about this too... which means: Staubitz = Gone

Kitten Mittons 03-16-2010 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthock (Post 24547925)
Boyle-Murray
Wallin-Vlasic
Huskins-Demers

Too unstable.
In my version, Wallin is there to make up for Demers' mistakes. Vlasic is for Blake's (sad).

Nighthock 03-16-2010 11:44 PM

Yeah, but Demers was playing with Huskins while he was up and looked just fine.

The Nemesis 03-16-2010 11:49 PM

Wrong. Clearly the team no longer has enough Shelley.:sarcasm:

TrappedInFullerton 03-16-2010 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthock (Post 24548153)
Yeah, but Demers was playing with Huskins while he was up and looked just fine.

Quite true. I'd even switch Demers and Vlasic. Have Demers with Wallin and Vlasic with Huskins. Vlasic can help with Huskins weaker D and Wallin can help with Demers, but **** if Demers won't give the the Sharks the offensive boost that they need.

Essentially:

Demers
Offense Skill: 8
Defense Skill: 6

Leach:
Offense Skill: 3
Defense Skill: 6

What gives Demers a 6 in Defense Skill is that he can get the puck out of the Sharks zone faster and cleaner than Leach can, even taking it out himself, which Leach is pretty much incapable of. Same with Blake... :cry:

TrappedInFullerton 03-16-2010 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nemesis (Post 24548235)
Wrong. Clearly the team no longer has enough Shelley.:sarcasm:

Shhhh, I'm trying to hide this obvious fact! :sarcasm:

Blades of Glory 03-16-2010 11:52 PM

Well, I doubt you'll find someone here that thinks Jay Leach or even Kent Huskins is a better option than Jason Demers. Hopefully once Vlasic is back, things get back to normal, with Demers in the lineup.

Murray-Boyle
Vlasic-Blake
Huskins-Demers

Led Zappa 03-16-2010 11:58 PM

Demers numbers are pumped by the fact he's played fewer games since Vlasic has been out.

Rickety Cricket 03-17-2010 12:02 AM

There is no key to the success :(

TrappedInFullerton 03-17-2010 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Led Zappa (Post 24548404)
Demers numbers are pumped by the fact he's played fewer games since Vlasic has been out.

That's quite possible. The Sharks are 3-2-1 in games that Demers played in after Vlasic was injured. Scored 20 goals and gave up 18 in those 6 games.

Of course, the Sharks were 3-1 in the games before the Olympics and after the Olympics are 0-1-1 with him. Not saying much, but before the Olympics, the Sharks were doing fine with him with Vlasic out, now after, he's only played 2 games, both on the losing side. Too small of a sample to judge Vlasic's impact.

Pinkfloyd 03-17-2010 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrappedInFullerton (Post 24548564)
That's quite possible. The Sharks are 3-2-1 in games that Demers played in after Vlasic was injured. Scored 20 goals and gave up 18 in those 6 games.

Of course, the Sharks were 3-1 in the games before the Olympics and after the Olympics are 0-1-1 with him. Not saying much, but before the Olympics, the Sharks were doing fine with him with Vlasic out, now after, he's only played 2 games, both on the losing side.

8-6-1 without Vlasic overall. 35-10-9 with him including the OT loss at home to Chicago that he got injured in. They weren't doing fine with Demers in and Vlasic out. They're just as mediocre. The thing Pickles was good at was defense and making the safe and simple play. Something that is missing with this team to go along with a lack of purpose.

one2gamble 03-17-2010 12:23 AM

its not demers, its mobility. Its the ability to skate away and around trouble. It doesnt matter who it is.

TrappedInFullerton 03-17-2010 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd (Post 24548656)
8-6-1 without Vlasic overall. 35-10-9 with him including the OT loss at home to Chicago that he got injured in. They weren't doing fine with Demers in and Vlasic out. They're just as mediocre. The thing Pickles was good at was defense and making the safe and simple play. Something that is missing with this team to go along with a lack of purpose.

8-6-1 with Vlasic out. 3-1 with Demers before the Olympic break. 0-1-1 in the two games after, this being with him having played with the WorSharks through the break and being brought up and down from the AHL as before he was a mainstay on the roster and wasn't being sent down often at all.

You can't deny that Demers doesn't add something to the team just because Vlasic is out. It's like you're saying the only reason Demers was any good and the Sharks won with him in the lineup was because Vlasic was there to carry him, which is bull, since the two didn't play together.

If anything, you need to use Vlasic's affect on Blake, since they were D partners.

Btw, the teams record without Demers and Vlasic since Vlasic's injury: 5-4-0

Not so much better than 8-6-1. You add Demers to 6 of those games, the Sharks probably win 1 or 2 of them at the least.

Kitten Mittons 03-17-2010 12:32 AM

ESPN has a nice breakdown:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/player...?playerId=5125

Led Zappa 03-17-2010 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrappedInFullerton (Post 24548791)
8-6-1 with Vlasic out. 3-1 with Demers before the Olympic break. 0-1-1 in the two games after, this being with him having played with the WorSharks through the break and being brought up and down from the AHL as before he was a mainstay on the roster and wasn't being sent down often at all.

You can't deny that Demers doesn't add something to the team just because Vlasic is out. It's like you're saying the only reason Demers was any good and the Sharks won with him in the lineup was because Vlasic was there to carry him, which is bull, since the two didn't play together.

If anything, you need to use Vlasic's affect on Blake, since they were D partners.

Btw, the teams record without Demers and Vlasic since Vlasic's injury: 5-4-0

Not so much better than 8-6-1. You add Demers to 6 of those games, the Sharks probably win 1 or 2 of them at the least.

I am not saying Demers was better when Vlasic was playing. The team was better and Demers played more games when Vlasic was playing, so we won more games with Demers playing.

My assesment on Demers: 1 - He played his best paired with Huskins 2 - His play has declined as the season has gone on.

I still like the guy and would like to see him up here and there. Whether he plays during the playoffs should depend on who were playing and if we go 7 D. If it's seven he should be up I think. If it's six, it's whether we need the grit and experience of Wallin or more puck movement with Demers.

Kitten Mittons 03-17-2010 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Led Zappa (Post 24548899)
If it's six, it's whether we need the grit and experience of Wallin or more puck movement with Demers.

So you're saying it's gonna be a choice between Wallin and Demers and not Huskins and Demers?

Led Zappa 03-17-2010 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidhye (Post 24548931)
So you're saying it's gonna be a choice between Wallin and Demers and not Huskins and Demers?

If Huskins is in the press box, while Demers is on the ice, I will be shocked unless he's injured of course. Huskins name is on the cup. Demers is a rookie. You really want his stick on the puck in game 7 with a one goal lead late in the game? I'm not sure I'm ready for that or that he is.

I know he's the whipping boy, but it's funny how good everyone thought Demers was doing while he was paired with Huskins. Then this Leech guy gets here and everyone is pleasantly surprised. Who's he paired with? Huskins. I mean the guy has his brain farts and he's definitely a 5,6 guy, but I've been satisfied with his play.

Karl with a C 03-17-2010 12:43 AM

Boyle - Murray
Vlasic - Wallin
Huskins - Blake

It's not horrible. I love Leach though. He could easily replace Blake.

Pinkfloyd 03-17-2010 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrappedInFullerton (Post 24548791)
8-6-1 with Vlasic out. 3-1 with Demers before the Olympic break. 0-1-1 in the two games after, this being with him having played with the WorSharks through the break and being brought up and down from the AHL as before he was a mainstay on the roster and wasn't being sent down often at all.

You can't deny that Demers doesn't add something to the team just because Vlasic is out. It's like you're saying the only reason Demers was any good and the Sharks won with him in the lineup was because Vlasic was there to carry him, which is bull, since the two didn't play together.

If anything, you need to use Vlasic's affect on Blake, since they were D partners.

Btw, the teams record without Demers and Vlasic since Vlasic's injury: 5-4-0

Not so much better than 8-6-1. You add Demers to 6 of those games, the Sharks probably win 1 or 2 of them at the least.

I'm not denying what Demers brings as an individual. I'm saying that his impact on the team's success is minimal. I'm also saying that Vlasic's impact on the team's success is obvious and the records with him in and out show that. The records with both out and just Demers in is equally average. Demers at this point has a lot of potential and I think he can realize a lot of that potential as soon as next year but right now, he's just too inconsistent to make the lasting impact that Pickles does on a nightly basis.

SactoShork 03-17-2010 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidhye (Post 24548862)

Not sure exactly what you were pointing to, but what I noticed was that the Sharks are 6-4 in the last 10 games he's played.

I happen to be a fan of Demers' game, and think he deserves a spot on the roster... but that record shows this recent slide is a team-wide problem. And that he alone doesn't help much.

Tealblood 03-17-2010 03:23 AM

the key is getting vlasic back, not necessarily demers.

Demers still turned the puck over quite often, but this was overshadowed by fans with his good plays from the point, and of course it helps when nabby goes on stretches where he stands on his head to bail out the D.

I do want to see demers given another chance after working out his defensive lapses in the A. I just don't think winning revolves around him as much as it does with vlasic.


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