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-   -   Offense (most overpaid overrated top six in league? ) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=752279)

The Fuhr 03-19-2010 09:13 AM

Offense (most overpaid overrated top six in league? )
 
Alfredsson - Last 46GP 11G (Had a 3G game and a 2G game)
So 38 of his last 46 games he has not scored a goal
Cap Hit: 5.6

Kovalev - Last 57GP 13G (Had a 4G game and a 3G game)
So 49 of his last 57 games he has not scored a goal
Cap Hit: 5.0

Fisher - Last 37GP 6G
So 31 of his last 37 games he has not scored a goal
Cap Hit: 4.2

Michalek - Last 39GP 7G
So 32 of his last 39 games he has not scored a goal
Cap Hit: 4.33

Spezza - Last 8GP 1G
He had an incredible hot streak coming back from injury 11GP 9G
Before injury 30GP 5G
Cap Hit: 7.0

I don’t know who to put as the sixth member of the top six. Cheechoo 3.0 (when he was here), Kelly 2.2, Cullen 2.8 (2G in 10GP here) and Neil 2.0 have not really been lighting it up either.

Aside from a Spezza 11GP hot streak our offense has been absolutely brutal for the last 30-40 games. That is a ton of money being spent on limited production.

Puckhog27 03-19-2010 09:16 AM

How many points do they have though? You can't just go by goals as that would be silly IMO. Lots of these guys are better playmakers then they are goal scorers. For instance Joe Thornton is a good playmaker, but not so great a goal scorer.

The Fuhr 03-19-2010 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckhog27 (Post 24595179)
How many points do they have though? You can't just go by goals as that would be silly IMO. Lots of these guys are better playmakers then they are goal scorers. For instance Joe Thornton is a good playmaker, but not so great a goal scorer.

On a team that desperately needs goals. We need goals bad it is way more important then playmaking.

There is two assists per one goal

Wham City 03-19-2010 09:22 AM

Ya if someone can show me a top 6 that costs more and produces less I'd love to see it.

SNAPshot 03-19-2010 09:23 AM

I agree with you, but I'm trully wondering what we could do in the offseason to remedy that... Those 5 guys are on our roster for next season too.

Our balanced lines have been a blessing at times, but at others, I still wish we had elite level talent in our first line.

What I mean is that Spezza is elite talent, but his style needs to be completed by another elite player (or players) to make things happen. Alfie is getting older (he's still awesome), Michalek has been streaky and I'm starting to wonder about his chemistry with Spezza or what his potential is. Kovalev used to be elite but has lost the wheels. Fisher is still streaky as all hell and needs to be surrounded by the right kind of players. Foligno and Regin are still developping and still have question marks surrounding their potentials as well.

We really need a home run pick/trade...

(I'm still disappointed about Erhoff, I wish we could have landed him. We could have also had Afinogenov for a buck or two.)

Puckhog27 03-19-2010 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fuhr (Post 24595204)
On a team that desperately needs goals. We need goals bad it is way more important then playmaking.

There is two assists per one goal

That is still an unfair assessment considering that most of them are more playmakers then goal scorers.

Kovalev is a bit below his normal pace. He usually scores around 20 - 26 goals a year.

Alfie and Spezza are way off their normal paces though and Michalek needs to do better if he is going to be the top line goal scorer for the team.

I don't think you can ask for much more from Fisher. Hes around his normal pace I believe.

Indy on the Road 03-19-2010 09:25 AM

I don't care how much they make right now, I just want them to start producing. Worry about the salaries in the off-season. These are our top forwards skill-wise and they need to wake the **** up.

Kovalev in particular has been an offensive black hole whenever the puck goes near him. Creating less than nothing.
Michalek has been creating chance after chance for himself with his speed but he has absolutely no finish.
Spezza has not been shooting as much and been making dumb passes in the middle of the ice to nobody. Cullen is just as bad at that.
Alfredsson has slowed down and isn't hitting the net from the point or anywhere for that matter.
Fisher is a streaky scorer to begin with but he is barely playing defense anymore. He looks completely lost.

We need more from these guys if we want to win. No question. I'd put most of the blame for our woes on these five and Matt Cullen.
When the Sens were winning game after game, our top six were setting the tone and scoring timely goals.

The Fuhr 03-19-2010 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckhog27 (Post 24595250)
That is still an unfair assessment considering that most of them are more playmakers then goal scorers.

Kovalev is a bit below his normal pace. He usually scores around 20 - 26 goals a year.

Alfie and Spezza are way off their normal paces though and Michalek needs to do better if he is going to be the top line goal scorer for the team.

I don't think you can ask for much more from Fisher. Hes around his normal pace I believe.

What`s the point of spending 30 million dollars on playmakers if they have nobody to pass to that can put the puck in the net consistently?

30 million on playmakers
Another 10 million on grinders

That's 40 million dollars spent on forwards that don't score consistently

Indy on the Road 03-19-2010 09:30 AM

Michalek and Fisher are primarily goal scorers and grinders. Not known for their playmaking. Spezza is a 30 goal man every season (healthy). Kovalev and Alfredsson can easily get 25 even at their age. No excuses.

enviro61 03-19-2010 09:33 AM

This is why our pp sucks so hard. We have noone who shoot first and asks questions later. They all stand around looking for the perfect play. They are all so predictable.

What I want to know is, how is this going to get better next year with most of these guys on the downside of their career?

MatthewT 03-19-2010 09:34 AM

Thats what happens when you replace:
Dany Heatley (36-36=72)

With:
Milan Michalek (22-12=34)
Jonathan Cheechoo (5-9=14)

For a difference of 9 goals and 15 assists + a roster spot

Blehst* 03-19-2010 09:35 AM

were in for a rough 4 years my friends.... that's how long it's going to take to come back..

mizza318 03-19-2010 09:37 AM

Essentially it comes down to coaching and the system they have the players executing.


I am not saying that Corey is a bad coach but he needs to make necessary adjusments. I am not a coach so I don't know what they could be. But changing up the PP would be a start.

Right now the team is in such a mess I don't know what can fix it.

Wham City 03-19-2010 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewT (Post 24595375)
Thats what happens when you replace:
Dany Heatley (36-36=72)

With:
Milan Michalek (22-12=34)
Jonathan Cheechoo (5-9=14)

For a difference of 9 goals and 15 assists + a roster spot

In less icetime to boot.

Icelevel 03-19-2010 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fuhr (Post 24595300)
What`s the point of spending 30 million dollars on playmakers if they have nobody to pass to that can put the puck in the net consistently?

30 million on playmakers
Another 10 million on grinders

That's 40 million dollars spent on forwards that don't score consistently

Best team of playmakers in the league. Doesn't that count for something?

Is Murray's time up yet?
wake me when it is.

Suiteness 03-19-2010 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewT (Post 24595375)
Thats what happens when you replace:
Dany Heatley (36-36=72)

With:
Milan Michalek (22-12=34)
Jonathan Cheechoo (5-9=14)

For a difference of 9 goals and 15 assists + a roster spot

It's not just that, Heatley by himself made our PP respectable, now it's a complete and total joke.

Indy on the Road 03-19-2010 09:45 AM

Stop letting the players off the hook. It's not Murray's fault these guys have seemingly packed it in. This is a good group of players that need to find their game again, and quickly.

Wondercarrot 03-19-2010 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holybajesus (Post 24595381)
were in for a rough 4 years my friends.... that's how long it's going to take to come back..

lol

spoken like someone with a firm grasp on things.
mind if i ask why 4 years? why not 5? or 2?

what specific set of factors makes in 4 years out of curiosity.

Indy on the Road 03-19-2010 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondercarrot (Post 24595533)
lol

spoken like someone with a firm grasp on things.
mind if i ask why 4 years? why not 5? or 2?

what specific set of factors makes in 4 years out of curiosity.

He's an idiot savant.

TheWeb 03-19-2010 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suiteness (Post 24595449)
It's not just that, Heatley by himself made our PP respectable, now it's a complete and total joke.

Bah, anyone who thinks that the Sens would actually be doing better with Heatley on the roster right now is kidding themselves, and also have very short memories.

The same level of crapitude that is surrounding the Sens right now happened regularly for the Sens when Heatley was on the roster; IE his presence did nothing to keep the team from going into a two month slump at the beginning of the 2006/2007 season, the last half of 2007/2008, and almost all of 2008/2009.

The guy simply is not a hockey player who lifts his team up and carries them on his back when things are going bad. If anything it's the opposite; he only plays well when the players around him are playing well.

TheWeb 03-19-2010 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fuhr (Post 24595136)
Alfredsson - Last 46GP 11G (Had a 3G game and a 2G game)
So 38 of his last 46 games he has not scored a goal
Cap Hit: 5.6

Kovalev - Last 57GP 13G (Had a 4G game and a 3G game)
So 49 of his last 57 games he has not scored a goal
Cap Hit: 5.0

Fisher - Last 37GP 6G
So 31 of his last 37 games he has not scored a goal
Cap Hit: 4.2

Michalek - Last 39GP 7G
So 32 of his last 39 games he has not scored a goal
Cap Hit: 4.33

Spezza - Last 8GP 1G
He had an incredible hot streak coming back from injury 11GP 9G
Before injury 30GP 5G
Cap Hit: 7.0

I donít know who to put as the sixth member of the top six. Cheechoo 3.0 (when he was here), Kelly 2.2, Cullen 2.8 (2G in 10GP here) and Neil 2.0 have not really been lighting it up either.

Aside from a Spezza 11GP hot streak our offense has been absolutely brutal for the last 30-40 games. That is a ton of money being spent on limited production.

I certainly felt that when Heatley was still around, and our roster was very top heavy salary-wise that the team would never win the cup because the top end players were not cup-caliber. IE, Spezza / Heatley are not players worth $7.5M.

Now with Heatley gone and a slightly more balanced payroll, I thought we'd have a more dangerous team -- four lines that can generate offense, usually through a good hard forecheck.

Seems I was wrong. The forecheck has disappeared, and the skill level isn't there on any one of the lines to generate goals consistently.

Icelevel 03-19-2010 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Worst Poster (Post 24595519)
Stop letting the players off the hook. It's not Murray's fault these guys have seemingly packed it in. This is a good group of players that need to find their game again, and quickly.

So you're saying it's the players alone that are responsible for this season's problems?
You like Leclaire and Elliott as our goaltenders? You like the Kovalev signing? You like the return we got for Heatley? You don't mind giving away 2 2nd round picks for rentals? You're ok with murray not bringing in a scorer at the deadline?
Are you really happy with the results over the last 3 years? Because that is what you're implying.

Big Papi 03-19-2010 10:00 AM

so the team's in a tailspin, why not go for the jugular right?

Is lame posts like this one that makes me sick as a fan. Yes it's crap when your teams playing like a bunch of timbits, but reflect on the fact that we're in a playoff spot, and have plenty of talent.

as for teams with worse top 6, easy, take your pick, any team out of the playoffs... Tampa, Edmonton, Carolina, Florida, Columbus, Ducks, Dallas, Wild, etc......

Indy on the Road 03-19-2010 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Best WorstPoster (Post 24595645)
So you're saying it's the players alone that are responsible for this season's problems?
You like Leclaire and Elliott as our goaltenders? You like the Kovalev signing? You like the return we got for Heatley? You don't mind giving away 2 2nd round picks for rentals? You're ok with murray not bringing in a scorer at the deadline?
Are you really happy with the results over the last 3 years? Because that is what you're implying.

No you idiot. Keep it in within the context of this thread. It's not Murray's fault these 5 guys aren't producing.

Icelevel 03-19-2010 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Worst Poster (Post 24595743)
No you idiot. Keep it in within the context of this thread. It's not Murray's fault these 5 guys aren't producing.

yes it is. he built the team around them. They have no one to play with. It's completely his fault.


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