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-   -   NYR vs. NYI Prospects (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=75252)

noodlemike 05-01-2004 11:07 PM

NYR vs. NYI Prospects
 
Sean Bergenheim C R.J. Umberger C
Eric Godard RW Richard Scott RW
Trent Hunter RW Hugh Jessiman RW/LW
Justin Papineau C Dominic Moore C/LW
Mattias Weinhandl RW Jozef Balej RW
Wade Dubielewicz G Henrik Lundqvist G
Rick Dipietro G Dan Blackburn G
Justin Mapletoft C Jamie Lundmark C/LW/RW
Arto Tukio D Fedor Tyutin D
Alexi Stonkus D Maxim Kondratiev D
Brad Topping G Jason LaBarbera G
Jan Holub D Thomas Pock D
Vladimir Gorbunov RW Jeff Heerema RW
Frans Nielsen C R.J. Umberger C
Marcus Paulsson C Jarkko Immonen C
Robert Nilsson LW Nigel Dawes LW
Evgeny Tunik RW Marcus Jonasen RW/LW
Dmitri Chernykh RW Garth Murray RW/LW/C
Jeremy Colliton RW Lee Falardeau C/RW
Stefan Blaho RW Petr Prucha
Bruno Gervais D Bryce Lampman D
Ryan Caldwell D Ivan Baranka D

Ranger Notables:
Jake Taylor D
Alexandre Giroux LW/C
Ken Roche C
Nathan Guenin D
Dave Liffiton D
Blair Betts C

was kinda bored...your comments, thoughts?, coughwerebettercough

in the hall 05-01-2004 11:48 PM

it's clear rangers have a much better farm now, they are probably a shoe in for top 5 in the league - probably can compete for the top spot

only thing we really lack for all thats said is elite prospects but since this is our first year of rebuild i trust the draft will address this

gkrangers 05-02-2004 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in the hall
it's clear rangers have a much better farm now, they are probably a shoe in for top 5 in the league - probably can compete for the top spot

only thing we really lack for all thats said is elite prospects but since this is our first year of rebuild i trust the draft will address this

Are you out of your mind ?

Top 5? LOL!

We just have alot of mediocre prospects that we talk up to make ourselves feel better.

Burberry Manning 05-02-2004 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkrangers
Are you out of your mind ?

Top 5? LOL!

We just have alot of mediocre prospects that we talk up to make ourselves feel better.

I agree. I would give us a top 15 ranking right now, with a top 10 ranking after the NHL draft if all goes well. Actually when all is said and done we might be in the top 6 or 7 in the league.

BLACKBURN 05-02-2004 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlemike
Sean Bergenheim C R.J. Umberger C
Eric Godard RW Richard Scott RW
Trent Hunter RW Hugh Jessiman RW/LW
Justin Papineau C Dominic Moore C/LW
Mattias Weinhandl RW Jozef Balej RW
Wade Dubielewicz G Henrik Lundqvist G
Rick Dipietro G Dan Blackburn G
Justin Mapletoft C Jamie Lundmark C/LW/RW
Arto Tukio D Fedor Tyutin D
Alexi Stonkus D <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=Maxim&v=55">Maxim</a> Kondratiev D
Brad Topping G Jason LaBarbera G
Jan Holub D Thomas Pock D
Vladimir Gorbunov RW Jeff Heerema RW
Frans Nielsen C R.J. Umberger C
Marcus Paulsson C Jarkko Immonen C
Robert Nilsson LW Nigel Dawes LW
Evgeny Tunik RW Marcus Jonasen RW/LW
Dmitri Chernykh RW Garth Murray RW/LW/C
Jeremy Colliton RW Lee Falardeau C/RW
Stefan Blaho RW Petr Prucha
Bruno Gervais D Bryce Lampman D
Ryan Caldwell D Ivan Baranka D

Ranger Notables:
Jake Taylor D
Alexandre Giroux LW/C
Ken Roche C
Nathan Guenin D
Dave Liffiton D
Blair Betts C

was kinda bored...your comments, thoughts?, coughwerebettercough

No offence but it looks like you just put each teams prospects next to each other according to position. I dont really understand it. However, our prospects are better then theres. They always have been and always will be! (in my mind)

Kubera55 05-02-2004 10:14 AM

Well, I didn't think HF giving the Rangers #29 was fair at the begining of this year, and the Rangers have unquestionably helped themselves some with the fire-sale. But let's be realistic . . . Top 20 would be fair. Top 15 if they really make out like bandits at the draft.

BLACKBURN 05-02-2004 10:46 AM

top 5 if they make out like bandits. top 10 if they draft as expected.

in the hall 05-02-2004 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkrangers
Are you out of your mind ?

Top 5? LOL!

We just have alot of mediocre prospects that we talk up to make ourselves feel better.

tjutin, balej, jessiman, baranka, dawes, umberger each have established themselves to be more then mediocre, more like pretty damn good

on the brink or a step below are jonason, lundqvist, prucha, roche, immonen, kondratiev, helminen, liffiton, murray

then you have both moore's, taylor, martz, guenin, giroux, lampman

all the ones i just named are better then mediocre, legit prospects with legit upside then you add a 6th overall pick, and 5 other picks in the top 60, easily this puts us in the top 5 and possibly top above all

when you guys comment like that do you even consider who they're up against? if you look around the league there aren't many with as much depth

CREW99AW 05-02-2004 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlemike
Sean Bergenheim C R.J. Umberger C

Trent Hunter RW Hugh Jessiman RW/LW



Bruno Gervais D Bryce Lampman D
Ryan Caldwell D Ivan Baranka D


was kinda bored...your comments, thoughts?, coughwerebettercough

Bergenheim has made the nhl and played well in his brief stint.He was sent home because the isles had a surplus of forwards and didn't want him playing 6-7 mins a night on LI,when he could play 20 mins a night for his old team.What's Umberger done to show he's capable of playing in the nhl?

Hunter's a roy candidate,a budding powerforward in the nhl.Jessiman's not played a minute in the league,let alone contended for the roy.

Was Lee Falardeau an invite to play for team Canada last winter like Colliton,missing out because of an injury?

Fedor Tyutin has made it to the nhl and played well,while Tukio hasn't even made it to the nhl,so Tyutin gets a clear edge.

I'm not sure what the rangers think Lampman and Baranka will bring,but the isles think Caldwell and Gervais will be the anchors on their blueline.

Son of Steinbrenner 05-02-2004 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Bergenheim has made the nhl and played well in his brief stint.He was sent home because the isles had a surplus of forwards and didn't want him playing 6-7 mins a night on LI,when he could play 20 mins a night for his old team.What's Umberger done to show he's capable of playing in the nhl?

Hunter's a roy candidate,a budding powerforward in the nhl.Jessiman's not played a minute in the league,let alone contended for the roy.

Was Lee Falardeau an invite to play for team Canada last winter like Colliton,missing out because of an injury?

Fedor Tyutin has made it to the nhl and played well,while Tukio hasn't even made it to the nhl,so Tyutin gets a clear edge.

I'm not sure what the rangers think Lampman and Baranka will bring,but the isles think Caldwell and Gervais will be the anchors on their blueline.

rangers are high on baranka. lampman played fairly well for the rangers the last 10 games of the season. he has earned a long look for next years camp.

i think the rangers have far better prospects than the islanders but............. i'm biased and i know a lot more about the rangers prospects than islanders prospects.

CREW99AW 05-02-2004 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
rangers are high on baranka. lampman played fairly well for the rangers the last 10 games of the season. he has earned a long look for next years camp.

i think the rangers have far better prospects than the islanders but............. i'm biased and i know a lot more about the rangers prospects than islanders prospects.


This reminds me of the yr that Brendl and Lundmark were drafted,with ranger fans posting that they were the next Bossy and Trots :D

Son of Steinbrenner 05-02-2004 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
This reminds me of the yr that Brendl and Lundmark were drafted,with ranger fans posting that they were the next Bossy and Trots :D

yeah it kinda does. but because of the isles moderate success and the rangers fire sale the rangers have better prospects. honestly who knows how good any of these guys are.

CREW99AW 05-02-2004 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
yeah it kinda does. but because of the isles moderate success and the rangers fire sale the rangers have better prospects. honestly who knows how good any of these guys are.


I'd say the rangers have more promising prospects,not necessarily better.

BLACKBURN 05-02-2004 02:49 PM

The Isles have had good draft sucess. Since we are talking about the 99 draft lets see what the Isles did.

1999
5 C Tim Connolly
8 L Taylor Pyatt
10 D Branislav Mezei
28 D Kristian Kudroc

Its great that this core is still with your organization and are not at all busts. I love Milbury, hes got draft-ubila-tay!

gkrangers 05-02-2004 03:38 PM

All of Milbury's real good draft picks are playing for other teams.

CREW99AW 05-02-2004 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkrangers
All of Milbury's real good draft picks are playing for other teams.

and the rangers 4-5 yrs later, are waiting for Lundmark to become what 23 yr old Hunter is well on his way to becoming:an impact player.

ECL 05-02-2004 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I'd say the rangers have more promising prospects,not necessarily better.

I'd say they are better and I try not to be biased in this. Rangers prospects, if you ask me, are a step ahead of the Islanders...

Broadway Brett 05-02-2004 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reveille
I'd say they are better and I try not to be biased in this. Rangers prospects, if you ask me, are a step ahead of the Islanders...

I agree, Jessiman has more upside than anyone in the Isles organization, and we have alot of guys who could become real good players, if not all-stars. I.E. Blackburn, Tyutin, Jessiman, and alot of potentially real good players.

therston 05-02-2004 06:03 PM

In the HAll- I agree with you I think we are at least top five...many prospects have had coming out years and the fire sale, this upcoming draft including. All doubter's, look around the league. There's not too many teams out there with what we have.

ECL 05-02-2004 06:11 PM

I think it's still a streatch to say that we are top 10. Hopefully by the end of the draft we are in the 5-7 range. We need a few great picks from Sather.

KH1 05-02-2004 07:02 PM

Obviously at this point the rangers have better prospects. As they damn well should! They just traded away their whole team to rebuild!

On the other hand, the Isles have more NHL ready prospects. Caldwell, Gervais, Bergenheim, Dubliewicz, Hunter, Weinhandl and Papineau are all close to being impact players in the NHL. While players like Jessiman and Lundqvist (to name a few) undoubtedly have better upside and will probably become better players, they are not at a stage where they could come in and help the team.

As for the Rangers being top 5, I would disagree unless they come away with Ovechkin, Malkin or Olesz without giving up any prospects. They are probably top 15 right now, and should be top 10 if they have a strong draft.

ECL 05-02-2004 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Henry I
Obviously at this point the rangers have better prospects. As they damn well should! They just traded away their whole team to rebuild!

On the other hand, the Isles have more NHL ready prospects. Caldwell, Gervais, Bergenheim, Dubliewicz, Hunter, Weinhandl and Papineau are all close to being impact players in the NHL. While players like Jessiman and Lundqvist (to name a few) undoubtedly have better upside and will probably become better players, they are not at a stage where they could come in and help the team.

As for the Rangers being top 5, I would disagree unless they come away with Ovechkin, Malkin or Olesz without giving up any prospects. They are probably top 15 right now, and should be top 10 if they have a strong draft.

Papineau an impact player?
Dubliwicz an impact player?
Caldwell an impact player?

Huh?

I don't even see Weinhandl or Bergenheim as anything more than 3rd liners down the road. The Isles need to draft better and soon. Nilsson might be their big hope eventually... And that's not saying much.

edit :: that's not a shot at you or written in a bad light. I just really disagree with your assumptions on those few players...

in the hall 05-03-2004 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
and the rangers 4-5 yrs later, are waiting for Lundmark to become what 23 yr old Hunter is well on his way to becoming:an impact player.

as of now, lundmark is way down the totem pole

isles have obviously been more successfull in drafts but they've also been the biggest losers just based on chance, rangers are just now started to clean up their act, just wait for the 2001 draft class and beyond

in the hall 05-03-2004 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Henry I
Obviously at this point the rangers have better prospects. As they damn well should! They just traded away their whole team to rebuild!

On the other hand, the Isles have more NHL ready prospects. Caldwell, Gervais, Bergenheim, Dubliewicz, Hunter, Weinhandl and Papineau are all close to being impact players in the NHL. While players like Jessiman and Lundqvist (to name a few) undoubtedly have better upside and will probably become better players, they are not at a stage where they could come in and help the team.

As for the Rangers being top 5, I would disagree unless they come away with Ovechkin, Malkin or Olesz without giving up any prospects. They are probably top 15 right now, and should be top 10 if they have a strong draft.

most the players you named the first word that comes to mind is scrubs..

hunter, dipietro, bergenheim, nilsson and that's it, those are the impact prospects

weinhandl i liked so i'll save him but papineau, dubliewicz (you're kidding right??), caldwell, gervais are all scrubs, they are third tier prospects with limited upside

true the isles have more ready players but you're telling me by having more ready future third liners they are better?? sorry but the rangers have some themselves and that's not what makes them have a good group of prospects right now

therston 05-03-2004 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in the hall
most the players you named the first word that comes to mind is scrubs..

hunter, dipietro, bergenheim, nilsson and that's it, those are the impact prospects

weinhandl i liked so i'll save him but papineau, dubliewicz (you're kidding right??), caldwell, gervais are all scrubs, they are third tier prospects with limited upside

true the isles have more ready players but you're telling me by having more ready future third liners they are better?? sorry but the rangers have some themselves and that's not what makes them have a good group of prospects right now

Considering the players which came up this year we aquired or had in our system like Balej, Ortmeyer, Tyutin, Murray, Lampman, Pock, ect. and players who were aquired or had in our system who are considered NHL ready or very close by Ranger scouts which is why we aquired them, Kondratiev, Immonen, Lundvist, Prucha, D. Moore, Dawes ect. and young kids still establishing themselves from our system like Lundmark, Blackburn, ect... others are considered "NHL ready" players. Most of those players aside from Murray and Ortmeyer are considered 2nd Tier+, so I dont even see how this is a competition. Thats without this draft where we will add alot to our system so we are easily top 6 in my opinion right now with prospects.


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