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JtotheLew 03-28-2010 08:09 PM

Jackman
 
I am a Ducks fan who tries to follow the Blues a little bit because of Kariya and some of their young talent, I was just in Missouri for a couple months and went to the Blues vs. Capitals right before the Olympic break. Was a fun game to watch minus the ignorant fans I was sitting beside who clearly knew nothing of Hockey but were all wearing mardi gras beads.

The bit I read here and there makes me think that you guys aren't too fond of Jackman, I always thought he was a pretty good defenseman. What do you all think of him and why? Will he be on the move in the offseason?

STL fan in IA 03-28-2010 08:21 PM

Jackman is fine as long as you don't expect too much from him. IMO, Jackman is an ideal #4 d-man, maybe a #3 d-man but he's paid like a #2/#3 d-man. Him being slightly overpaid I think creates some negative sentiment about him from some fans. Jax has his flaws but I'm fine with him. I don't really see him going anywhere. The problem is that oftentimes Jax is used as the Blues #1 or #2 d-man and he's simply not good enough and he gets exposed sometimes. That's not his fault, it's that the Blues simply don't have someone better a lot of the time but Jax still gets the blame. I think if he was utilized properly (on the 2nd pairing), the average Blues fan's opinion of him would be better. He's nowhere near the whipping boy Brewer is though...

EastonBlues22 03-28-2010 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtotheLew (Post 24789077)
I am a Ducks fan who tries to follow the Blues a little bit because of Kariya and some of their young talent, I was just in Missouri for a couple months and went to the Blues vs. Capitals right before the Olympic break. Was a fun game to watch minus the ignorant fans I was sitting beside who clearly knew nothing of Hockey but were all wearing mardi gras beads.

The bit I read here and there makes me think that you guys aren't too fond of Jackman, I always thought he was a pretty good defenseman. What do you all think of him and why? Will he be on the move in the offseason?

He doesn't seem well liked because most fans tend to underrate the importance of what he does well, and over-generalize (in both quantity and magnitude) the things he doesn't do well. I'm fairly sure the Blues organization views him as a valuable asset and are not looking to move him.

He's a perfectly good mid-pairing defenseman who's capable of playing against many other team's top lines. He's very physical, very tough, very strong on the boards and in front of his own net, above average positionally, above average mobility and strength on his skates, decent stickhandling and puck posession abilities, holds the puck in well enough on the point, average outlet pass from the defensive zone, above average leadership/intangibles, slightly above average hockey sense, and he can fight.

He's isn't adept at rushing the puck himself, at joining the rush, or at demonstrating offensive creativity in the neutral or offensive zones. He doesn't have a particularly hard or accurate shot, and he isn't particularly good at getting it off quickly or through traffic.

In short, he has a rather unglamorous skill set that makes him particularly valuable in the defensive zone and on the PK, while making him singularly unremarkable (although not necessarily a liability) in the other two zones. He's worth what he's paid, in my opinion.

The Grouch 03-28-2010 08:43 PM

Barret Jackman is like most other defensive defensmen in the league, when they make a gaff, they are the ire of the fan base. Offensive defensmen despite being more of a defensive liability are often "forgiven" strictly because they are much more exciting to watch. To the casual fan a defensman that can put up tangible stats(Goals and Assists) is going to be more popular than a defensman who's play you cannot judge from looking at the back of a hockey card. Jackman falls into this category.

He is very sound defensive defensman that shows little in the way of stats. Jackman plays the toughest minutes of anyone on the team, and does a very respectable job. That being said he is not without faults. At times he is overexposed, most would agree that he would benefit from playing as a number two or three defensman instead of the number one minutes he has played the last few seasons. Jackman is also prone to turnovers which really ruffles the feathers of a lot of Blues fans(myself included).

Overall he is a better player than fans on this board give him credit for(although I would guess it's really only about 20% of the fan base that represents 90% of the hate). I would like to see him stay in St. Louis going forward. The Blues will need veteran defensmen(they have a lot of young defensmen on the way) and Jackman fills that role quite nicely.

JtotheLew 03-28-2010 09:25 PM

Question #2, what is the general sentiment towards Paul Kariya, I realise he's grossly overpaid and having a rough season but what do you guys think of him?

oPlaiD 03-28-2010 10:03 PM

Regarding Jackman:

http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=504

EastonBlues22 03-28-2010 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtotheLew (Post 24790949)
Question #2, what is the general sentiment towards Paul Kariya, I realise he's grossly overpaid and having a rough season but what do you guys think of him?

He has moments every now and then, but he's clearly not the player he used to be. Less speed than before, more of a perimeter player, much less effective on the PP, worse shot (hardness and accuracy). He's not necessarily below average in any of those skills yet, but he's obviously declining. His passing is the part of his offensive game that has had the least dropoff, so his new linemates would ideally be able to capitalize on that.

He could be a nice second line winger worth 3 to 4 million in the right situation, but nobody should be counting on him to be a top line talent for their team anymore.

SteenMachine 03-28-2010 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oPlaiD (Post 24791836)

I definitely enjoy seeing that when you can also take note of Polak and McClement being on there as well. It shows a bit of balance to where our defense comes from, and how much more clear it is when someone can say a guy like Jackman or Polak is playing way beyond their league value.

If we had the goalie to clean up Jackman's (or anyone else's) turnovers like we did in both Legace's all-star season and Mason's playoff push there would be almost nothing to give them grief for but being so close to the playoffs again makes every mistake blown out of proportion.

SteenMachine 03-28-2010 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 (Post 24792555)
He has moments every now and then, but he's clearly not the player he used to be. Less speed than before, more of a perimeter player, much less effective on the PP, worse shot (hardness and accuracy). He's not necessarily below average in any of those skills yet, but he's obviously declining. His passing is the part of his offensive game that has had the least dropoff, so his new linemates would ideally be able to capitalize on that.

He could be a nice second line winger worth 3 to 4 million in the right situation, but nobody should be counting on him to be a top line talent for their team anymore.

Yeah I'd add that he's still a smart enough player to recognize this and has squeezed out near PPG numbers just by being so opportunistic with his acceleration and vision. No where near a consistent game changer anymore, but dependable to make good decisions with what he still has going for him.

His hip surgery seemed to have revitalized his confidence because he has said that he feels much more comfortable skating again as well. (something along the lines of how he felt back when he was playing in his prime to explain how bad his hips had gotten on him) So it's not over for him but he's no longer a $6MM player by any means.

2 Minute Minor 03-29-2010 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtotheLew (Post 24790949)
Question #2, what is the general sentiment towards Paul Kariya, I realise he's grossly overpaid and having a rough season but what do you guys think of him?

Kariya has played quite well the last 30 games or so. He's shown speed we haven't seen and is making a difference both on the score sheet and in terms of creativity. The line with him, Backes and Oshie has been the top line and fun to watch. They have great chemistry.

I find myself grown cynical about Kariya and feel he's really putting extra effort because its pre-UFA-contract time for him. I doubt he cares whether he stays here or goes anywhere in particular. Its possible that what we're seeing is a guy that is finally really recovered from his hip surgeries and poised for a real comeback season next year.

Do the Blues have interest in re-signing him? I think if he'd play for $3M or less for a 2 year contract, I'd probably take him. It still feels like a gamble. Personally, I think he owes the Blues a friendly contract after ripping them off for most of $18M. I'm pretty curious what the open market will look like for him, but with his name and the end of the season run I'm sure some GM and fanbase somewhere will be willing to bid more than the Blues.

And I almost fear he WILL re-sign here and then go back into his contact-avoiding, invisible play for another 2 years.

Probably the biggest knock on Kariya is that I really don't think he provides any useful leadership to the team, and this is a team where that would have made a big difference. I really would like to know what the front office things of him, and the interest in bringing him back, but I'm pretty sure we'd all love to upgrade him to Kovalchuk. Its probably not going to happen, so what/who is Plan B? I wouldn't be shocked to find him getting offered another contract here, but its probably a mistake for the Blues to do it.


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