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-   -   Bauer skates holders misaligned or mismounted? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=756929)

Tinkeric 03-30-2010 04:39 PM

Bauer skates holders misaligned or mismounted?
 
Hey everyone, after getting the blades on my new Vapor XXXXs profiled and sharpened, I skated on them for the first time today and had a lot of adjusting to do since I've always been in Grafs.

I know that the Bauer pitch (more "on the heels") will take a while to get used to, but I felt like something was just wrong with my left skate, like the holder wasn't mounted straight or something.

When I look at the bottom of the skates, I can see that the left holder is actually mounted differently than the right holder. The left skate rivets are closer to the inside edge of the sole. However, I've noticed the lack of holder/rivet symmetry on two pairs of my Grafs before, which performed well, so maybe it's normal since the left and right boots aren't always perfectly identical?

Here's a photo: http://home.comcast.net/~bobble_eric...por_rivets.jpg

What do you think? I bought these skates new off eBay, so I don't know if I can work with a warranty. Thanks.

Jarick 03-30-2010 04:44 PM

I can't help you but I know mine were the same way:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ey/skates2.jpg

I was losing an edge a lot the last few months I owned them. When I asked the local shop, they said it shouldn't be the problem, but my foot was rolling in the boot because they were the wrong size. Traded them in for a pair of Grafs.

madmutter 03-30-2010 04:46 PM

Check this out.
http://www.pro-skate.com/store/index...ews&news_id=21

LarryO 03-30-2010 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkeric (Post 24823830)
Hey everyone, after getting the blades on my new Vapor XXXXs profiled and sharpened, I skated on them for the first time today and had a lot of adjusting to do since I've always been in Grafs.

I know that the Bauer pitch (more "on the heels") will take a while to get used to, but I felt like something was just wrong with my left skate, like the holder wasn't mounted straight or something.

When I look at the bottom of the skates, I can see that the left holder is actually mounted differently than the right holder. The left skate rivets are closer to the inside edge of the sole. However, I've noticed the lack of holder/rivet symmetry on two pairs of my Grafs before, which performed well, so maybe it's normal since the left and right boots aren't always perfectly identical?

Here's a photo: http://home.comcast.net/~bobble_eric...por_rivets.jpg

What do you think? I bought these skates new off eBay, so I don't know if I can work with a warranty. Thanks.

Actually the outsoles don't seem to be centered the same on both skates, so even though the holders are not centered relative to the outsoles, they might be centered relative to the boot. It's not easy to judge.

Ollie Queen 03-30-2010 05:57 PM

To the OP-

I had the EXACT same problem when I first switched to Bauer XXXXs a couple of years ago (from E-Pro runners). I knew the pitch would be different but something just felt "off" with my left skate. I actually thought that my steel might be warped it felt so odd. After a few practices with them feeling that way I decided to have them re-sharpened. It didn't alleviate the problem 100% but it did lessen it, and within 5 or so more practices I no longer noticed it at all. Once I adjusted, they ended up becoming one of the best pair of skates I ever owned.

Ragss 03-30-2010 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmutter (Post 24823970)



I got my skates from these guys. They took a lot of time moving the holders around to get it just right.

rinkrat22 03-30-2010 08:52 PM

I would contact either the place you got them, or Bauer and give them a (polite) WTF?

Ollie Queen 03-30-2010 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rinkrat22 (Post 24831435)
I would contact either the place you got them, or Bauer and give them a (polite) WTF?

There's likely nothing wrong with the skates. It's a big change, going from one kind of runner to an entirely different one. I had the EXACT same problem the OP described (with the exact same skates) and it took care of itself as I simply got more comfortable with the new skates. It took a while (and a second sharpening).

Crosbyfan 03-30-2010 09:01 PM

I've had Bauer skates that had one blade that would continuously get bent. I've straightened it 20-30 times or more. I suspect if I removed the blade the holder would be bent in it's alignment, preloading the blade but I'm not sure, the steel may just be soft.

Hockeyfan68 03-30-2010 09:17 PM

I don't think I have ever had a pair of skates that were identical as it pertains to the skate holder being riveted the same way on each side.

I'll add that it doesn't affect my skating at all and everything feels balanced.

I had a blade warping issue but my friend who owns a LHS re-riveted the holder and drilled a new extra hole which fixed it. So I have one holder with an extra rivet.

Not sure why bauer, a reputable company would have so many warped blade issues. My friend showed ma a new pair of $600 Bauers that came out of the box with warped runners. They're made in China by workers who are paid low and do not play hockey. just an assumption but one that makes sense. I doubt the worker knows a skate runner from a sled runner.

It is a fairly common problem with Bauer unfortunately because I love their skates.

NewFang 03-30-2010 11:13 PM

You might want to consider skating lessons.

Ollie Queen 03-30-2010 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewFang (Post 24835416)
You might want to consider skating lessons.

Because he's having an adjustment period switching between two entirely different sets of runners that are setup differently? :shakehead

It's just an adjustment period. You can look into the things other posters have mentioned in the thread, but unless there's a factory defect in the steel (warped) it's just the same thing that I went to when I switched to XXXXs from a different runner. It will pass and you will forget you ever felt this way.

Maupin Fan 03-30-2010 11:31 PM

You should also check to make sure that the edges are level as well. The holder being off center may cause for uneven edges when that skate is sharpened. That is a problem I have had on the left skate of two pairs of Bauer's that I have owned, and may be the cause of the problems skating with the left foot.

NewFang 03-30-2010 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 (Post 24835456)
Because he's having an adjustment period switching between two entirely different sets of runners that are setup differently? :shakehead

Hey, it was just a suggestion.

Ollie Queen 03-30-2010 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewFang (Post 24835721)
Hey, it was just a suggestion.

I know, it just sounds like he's been skating for a while and it likely has little to do with technique. I had been skating for 17 years before I tried my first Bauers on (happened to be the XXXXs he's talking about himself) and I experienced the same problem, with the same foot. After about 2 weeks of 4 day-a-week on ice practices, I had simply adjusted and haven't looked back since. The OP says this was the first time he skated in the new skates... I personally think he just needs to give it time, unless there is an actual defect.


I did mention that I had them re-sharpened which seemed to lessen the effect and aid the transition. Not sure if that was entirely coincidental or not.

Hockeyfan68 03-31-2010 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 (Post 24835456)
Because he's having an adjustment period switching between two entirely different sets of runners that are setup differently? :shakehead

It's just an adjustment period. You can look into the things other posters have mentioned in the thread, but unless there's a factory defect in the steel (warped) it's just the same thing that I went to when I switched to XXXXs from a different runner. It will pass and you will forget you ever felt this way.

I played most of my life on the wrong rocker and had a time and a half adjusting to the correct one. I kept bringing my old skates in when buying new ones over the years and having them copy my exisiting one because I did not know what had been done to them and I learned on that rocker.

This past winter I tried my old skates outdoors and I was up too high on my toes and had to take about 10 minutes to get used to them again after using the correct one.

These things are very strange and I can see why this guy has a hard time adjusting. he will though and be just fine.

stick9 03-31-2010 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 (Post 24832323)
I don't think I have ever had a pair of skates that were identical as it pertains to the skate holder being riveted the same way on each side.

I'll add that it doesn't affect my skating at all and everything feels balanced.

I had a blade warping issue but my friend who owns a LHS re-riveted the holder and drilled a new extra hole which fixed it. So I have one holder with an extra rivet.

Not sure why bauer, a reputable company would have so many warped blade issues. My friend showed ma a new pair of $600 Bauers that came out of the box with warped runners. They're made in China by workers who are paid low and do not play hockey. just an assumption but one that makes sense. I doubt the worker knows a skate runner from a sled runner.

It is a fairly common problem with Bauer unfortunately because I love their skates.

Shouldn't matter, it's an assembly process. Even if they were made here, its not like you'd find a bunch of ex-hockey players sitting at rivet machines mounting holders 8 hours a day.

I've heard numerous horror stores of misaligned holders coming out of Graf Canada.

Crosbyfan 03-31-2010 09:00 AM

Slightly OT but I think worth mentioning in this thread is that baking skates with too high a temperature, too long, or standing on them too early after baking can distort the holders.

You would not notice this from the rivets, or holder placement on the skate, but it can amount to the same thing, or worse.

Hockeyfan68 03-31-2010 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stick9 (Post 24838586)
Shouldn't matter, it's an assembly process. Even if they were made here, its not like you'd find a bunch of ex-hockey players sitting at rivet machines mounting holders 8 hours a day.

I've heard numerous horror stores of misaligned holders coming out of Graf Canada.

Then something is wrong with quality control in the factory. Something is also wrong at Bauer Hockey.

Tinkeric 03-31-2010 11:34 PM

Hey everyone, thanks for the replies.

I'm going to try the skates a few more times before I start coming to any conclusions.

My main observations are:

-Grafs and Bauers have VERY different pitches. (Obvious, I know.) On Grafs, you can really get a full toe-push/snap in the stride. On Bauers, it's more about pushing off the whole blade.

-@Crosbyfan, The Bauer instructions say that the skates should be baked for a max of 2 minutes, but my proshop put them in for 10-12... on top of that, I didn't stand in them after baking but I purposely rolled my ankles inward occasionally, which may have warped the holders.

-@LarryO & HockeyFan68, After looking at a bunch of skates, I've realized that most holders aren't mounted perfectly identical relative to the bottom soles; they're mounted lined up relative to the overall boots.

-@Zetter, funny how you had the same story. I still think these skates could work out. So many NHLers were using them when they came out so they're obviously a good skate.

-The "philosophy" of Graf and Bauer boots is different too. Grafs feel like they're lower-cut around the ankles. There's still support, but you can flex your ankles much more. I'm not saying which is better, they obviously both work.

Again, thanks everyone. I'll update you after I skate on them for at least 3 more hours.

stick9 04-01-2010 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkeric (Post 24856171)

-@Crosbyfan, The Bauer instructions say that the skates should be baked for a max of 2 minutes, but my proshop put them in for 10-12... on top of that, I didn't stand in them after baking but I purposely rolled my ankles inward occasionally, which may have warped the holders.

Gotta ask, why would you do such a thing?

jsykes 04-01-2010 06:39 PM

Well, here is my current experience with Bauer quality. Just picked up my custom X60s today. This is the second pair I've waited for since the first pair wasnt even close to fitting properly.

Anyway, while wearing them, the right skate seemed to feel like I wanted to have my ankle roll inward. I wore them for some time and just chalked it up to a different feel and would skate on them and see what happened.

When I got home, I looked them over and it looked like the right skate, the holder tilted inward in relation to the boot. So I put a plumb up and took some photos. You can see that the left skate, the string goes through the center of the tendon guard, through the center of the "X" on the heel of the skate and directly through the holder and blade. On the right skate, the string goes through the tendon guard and the "X", but you can see the holder goes to the inside and the blade is slightly to the left of the string, which would mean its to the left of center of the boot, which would cause my ankle to roll inward, putting me more on the outside edge than centered.

Looks like I'm going back tomorrow and see what the shop says. I'll give them a skate and see what happens if they want, but sure seems that its misaligned.

And as a side note, hard to see in the photo, but you can kind of, the black color goes almost all the way up to the first of the angled "spines" on the tendon guard, while on the left skate it doesnt even reach the tendon guard. Some cosmetic QC.

http://www.jimsykes.com/images/skates.jpg

stick9 04-01-2010 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsykes (Post 24868958)
Well, here is my current experience with Bauer quality. Just picked up my custom X60s today. This is the second pair I've waited for since the first pair wasnt even close to fitting properly.

Anyway, while wearing them, the right skate seemed to feel like I wanted to have my ankle roll inward. I wore them for some time and just chalked it up to a different feel and would skate on them and see what happened.

When I got home, I looked them over and it looked like the right skate, the holder tilted inward in relation to the boot. So I put a plumb up and took some photos. You can see that the left skate, the string goes through the center of the tendon guard, through the center of the "X" on the heel of the skate and directly through the holder and blade. On the right skate, the string goes through the tendon guard and the "X", but you can see the holder goes to the inside and the blade is slightly to the left of the string, which would mean its to the left of center of the boot, which would cause my ankle to roll inward, putting me more on the outside edge than centered.

Looks like I'm going back tomorrow and see what the shop says. I'll give them a skate and see what happens if they want, but sure seems that its misaligned.

And as a side note, hard to see in the photo, but you can kind of, the black color goes almost all the way up to the first of the angled "spines" on the tendon guard, while on the left skate it doesnt even reach the tendon guard. Some cosmetic QC.

http://www.jimsykes.com/images/skates.jpg

Wow that's messed up.

If it's any consolation, the plumb looks be at the center of the holder where it meets the boot. So maybe, it's just a warped holder and not a bad mount.

jsykes 04-01-2010 10:18 PM

Agreed. Its either a warped holder or outsole not square with boot. Either way feels weird when standing in them so they're going back to the shop. Additionally, I'm not happy with the fit after wearing them more around the house tonight and for full customs, they need some more work so its more than just the blade. Starting to wonder about Bauer QC though since this is the second set of customs they've sent out, they still dont fit right and then this. Oh well.

Tinkeric 04-01-2010 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stick9 (Post 24858700)
Gotta ask, why would you do such a thing?

I have this "extra bone" right above my arch called an accessory navicular, and most skates don't have any extra room in the boot for that bone.

I rolled my ankles inward to try and apply some pressure on the boot to mold it to my bone, kind of like punching it out myself while baking.


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