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-   -   Fire all refs for not doing their jobs, players are getting hurt out there! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=75756)

eye 05-04-2004 10:06 AM

Fire all refs for not doing their jobs, players are getting hurt out there!
 
The more refs refuse to call the rules that are explained very clearly in their book the more players are intentionally trying to injure opponents on the ice, they intentionally alter the games outcome by allowing players to grab, hook, SLASH, cross check, HIT FROM BEHIND, elbow, trip, take the feet out, latch on etc. etc. etc. etc. Fans are booing at games for good reason. The refs are using descretion and their own interpretation of the rules which are 2 no-no's. Fans, players, coaches no longer know what a penalty is or which infractions will be called. Refs are more likely to call a penalty on the team with the lead, more likely not to call a penalty if they just gave a team one, put their whistles away in the 3rd and OT. Remember Ref in Chief and Gary Bettman "PENALTIES WILL BE CALLED ON EVERY INFRACTION NO MATTER WHEN IT OCCURS DURING THE GAME". BULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve L* 05-04-2004 11:02 AM

Every ref cant be doing it wrong so all the heads of officiating must go, they are the ones who are telling the refs not to call a proper game.

However I agree that McCreary (terribly biased against Philly) and Magoo have to go. Its sad to think the NHL sees them as the best.

iagreewithidiots 05-04-2004 11:09 AM

I think the refs should go for not doing their jobs. However I think they are doing what they are asked to do by then NHL.

They have to get it together at NHL HQ. The officiating is horrible and it starts right at the top.

Andy Van was a god awful official and is even worse as the boss. Somebody please get rid of him anyway possible.

Hellsempire 05-04-2004 02:40 PM

This has to be one of the worst seasons when it comes to the refs... Last season was bad but this one tops them all...

Finkle is Einhorn 05-04-2004 04:08 PM

Yeah, sure, fire all the refs.....and replace them with the ones that are not good enough to currently officiate an NHL game. :shakehead

BCCHL inactive 05-04-2004 05:28 PM

One word for this thread: Ignorance. :shakehead


Quote:

Originally Posted by eye
The refs are using descretion and their own interpretation of the rules which are 2 no-no's.

This is how the game has ALWAYS been officiated.

Teemu 05-04-2004 05:45 PM

Where's that crying smilie...


ah, here :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

iagreewithidiots 05-04-2004 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
One word for this thread: Ignorance.

I dont think thats the right word.

Officiating is terrible. Its not all the refs fault. The NHL doesnt really care about craking down on obstruction on the puck carrier. Its poor officiating that should be blamed on the league.

Refs are trained to be terrible. Calling penalties based on the flow of the game is just plain dumb, and actually does more to hurt the flow of the game. I really hate when refs or some mullet (read Melrose) says he doesnt want a game being decided by a peanlty call. Hey mullet not calling the penalty is having a more negative effect on the game.

Its the same crap year after year. Ive never seen another league that wants its star players to be hooked and held and kept from doing what they do.

Luigi Lemieux 05-04-2004 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
One word for this thread: Ignorance. :shakehead




This is how the game has ALWAYS been officiated.

uh no. interference, clutching, grabbing, slashing is at an all time high, yet powerplays given out has been going down steadily sincle the 70's and 80s. People yearn for the 80s yet want the refs to let them play? It doesn't work that way...the 80s were full of powerplays!

ehc73 05-04-2004 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
uh no. interference, clutching, grabbing, slashing is at an all time high, yet powerplays given out has been going down steadily sincle the 70's and 80s. People yearn for the 80s yet want the refs to let them play? It doesn't work that way...the 80s were full of powerplays!

He meant it's always been officiated through interpretation of the rules(ie up to the discretion of the referee).

Luigi Lemieux 05-04-2004 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehc73
He meant it's always been officiated through interpretation of the rules(ie up to the discretion of the referee).

my point is still the same. the officiating sucks...bigtime. it's been deteriorating for years now.

iagreewithidiots 05-04-2004 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehc73
He meant it's always been officiated through interpretation of the rules(ie up to the discretion of the referee).

Heres the problem. I dont think thats whats being done.

Watch any game and count how many penalties on the puck carrier arent called. Its not about the refs interpretation of the rules. Its about letting stuff go. Thats what the league wants. They want hard nosed, tough play. They want kill the man with the puck. Its stupid beyond belief. It also makes way to many games totally unwatchable.

Frozen North 05-04-2004 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
my point is still the same. the officiating sucks...bigtime. it's been deteriorating for years now.


Can anyone name a sport that has "excellent" officiating?

Not me.

iagreewithidiots 05-04-2004 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetRanger
Can anyone name a sport that has "excellent" officiating?

Not me.

I wouldnt say any were excellent.

Can anyone name a major sport with worse officiating then the NHL?

ehc73 05-04-2004 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
I wouldnt say any were excellent.

Can anyone name a major sport with worse officiating then the NHL?

What major sport has the speed of the NHL to officiate at that doesn't have the benefit of a dozen officials?

BCCHL inactive 05-04-2004 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Can anyone name a major sport with worse officiating then the NHL?

Complaining about officiating has never been as much of an epidemic as it is today, yet how the game is officiated really hasn't changed much at all as the complaining got worse, and I will tell you why...The Instant Replay.

Now that fans watching on TV, and even at the games, have access to instant replays at numerous angles, they have used that as an excuse to blame bad officiating for whatever goes wrong for their team during a game. Back when there were no replays, and even when replays were shown at a minimum, people did complain about officiating, but it was just for the sake of complaining about officiating. It was never "he cost us the game, he should be fired", it was simply "he missed the call, life goes on".

These days, the so-called die hard fans have turned into conspiracy theorists. Every time they lose, the referees had something to do with it, and most of the wins are in spite of the officiating. It makes me laugh that some fans actually believe that some referees are biased against their team.

The instant replay has magnified the missed call and the fans have used that to label the NHL's officiating as the worst in pro sports.

For example: Fans at the game in the Saddledome last night had no idea why Lombardi was hurt...until a replay was shown of Hatcher elbowing him in the head. Once that replay was shown, it was all of a sudden the referees' fault.

Luigi Lemieux 05-04-2004 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Complaining about officiating has never been as much of an epidemic as it is today, yet how the game is officiated really hasn't changed much at all as the complaining got worse, and I will tell you why...The Instant Replay.

Now that fans watching on TV, and even at the games, have access to instant replays at numerous angles, they have used that as an excuse to blame bad officiating for whatever goes wrong for their team during a game. Back when there were no replays, and even when replays were shown at a minimum, people did complain about officiating, but it was just for the sake of complaining about officiating. It was never "he cost us the game, he should be fired", it was simply "he missed the call, life goes on".

These days, the so-called die hard fans have turned into conspiracy theorists. Every time they lose, the referees had something to do with it, and most of the wins are in spite of the officiating. It makes me laugh that some fans actually believe that some referees are biased against their team.

The instant replay has magnified the missed call and the fans have used that to label the NHL's officiating as the worst in pro sports.

For example: Fans at the game in the Saddledome last night had no idea why Lombardi was hurt...until a replay was shown of Hatcher elbowing him in the head. Once that replay was shown, it was all of a sudden the referees' fault.

why are they calling less powerplays? are the players playing clean all of a sudden?

Kritty 05-04-2004 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eye
The more refs refuse to call the rules that are explained very clearly in their book the more players are intentionally trying to injure opponents on the ice, they intentionally alter the games outcome by allowing players to grab, hook, SLASH, cross check, HIT FROM BEHIND, elbow, trip, take the feet out, latch on etc. etc. etc. etc. Fans are booing at games for good reason. The refs are using descretion and their own interpretation of the rules which are 2 no-no's. Fans, players, coaches no longer know what a penalty is or which infractions will be called. Refs are more likely to call a penalty on the team with the lead, more likely not to call a penalty if they just gave a team one, put their whistles away in the 3rd and OT. Remember Ref in Chief and Gary Bettman "PENALTIES WILL BE CALLED ON EVERY INFRACTION NO MATTER WHEN IT OCCURS DURING THE GAME". BULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So when is the last time you reffed a game? Have you ever reffed a game? It doesn't sound like it. If you have you would know that it is impossible to call every single penalty in a game. Either a ref misses a call or doesn't think it's a penalty. Whenever you have the human element involved you are bound to have refs that call things differently, you can't get around it.

Call every infraction no matter what? The NHL is having a hard enough time getting people to watch now, and then you want them to go and slow the game down by about 5 times in order to call all the penalties? That's insanity. Do you know how slow the game will be when there are 30-40 penalties every game? I can't understand how you can actually be for something like that.

If you watched the Calgary/Detroit game last night you would have noticed that there were quite a few penalties that weren't called and rightfully so. They were boredline calls and the refs made the right choice not calling them. They game kept its pace and wasn't slowed and wasn't effected by it.

I don't buy this argument for a second. How about putting some of the blame on the players for once. Everyone looks elsewhere for the blame. It's the players that make the decision to hook, slash, high stick, hit from behind, etc., not the refs. Blaming only the refs is a cop out. It's about bloody time these players took some blame.

Grave77digger 05-04-2004 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kritty
Call every infraction no matter what? The NHL is having a hard enough time getting people to watch now, and then you want them to go and slow the game down by about 5 times in order to call all the penalties? That's insanity.

The rules are written for players protection not for YOUR entertainment, we all know now what has happened recently due to escalating violence on the ice that could have been prevented...

eye 05-05-2004 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kritty
So when is the last time you reffed a game? Have you ever reffed a game? It doesn't sound like it. If you have you would know that it is impossible to call every single penalty in a game. Either a ref misses a call or doesn't think it's a penalty. Whenever you have the human element involved you are bound to have refs that call things differently, you can't get around it.

Call every infraction no matter what? The NHL is having a hard enough time getting people to watch now, and then you want them to go and slow the game down by about 5 times in order to call all the penalties? That's insanity. Do you know how slow the game will be when there are 30-40 penalties every game? I can't understand how you can actually be for something like that.

If you watched the Calgary/Detroit game last night you would have noticed that there were quite a few penalties that weren't called and rightfully so. They were boredline calls and the refs made the right choice not calling them. They game kept its pace and wasn't slowed and wasn't effected by it.

I don't buy this argument for a second. How about putting some of the blame on the players for once. Everyone looks elsewhere for the blame. It's the players that make the decision to hook, slash, high stick, hit from behind, etc., not the refs. Blaming only the refs is a cop out. It's about bloody time these players took some blame.

I have reffed and am not very good at it. My post was loaded with sarcasm as I blame the league, team GM's, team Governors and Bettman more than anyone. Refs are encouraged to use descretion and interpretation instead of just good common sense and believing what their eyes are telling them. Players and coaches take advantage of refs that do not enforce the rules and the game and it's fans are suffering as a result. If refs stuck with their crackdown last year the game would have been fixed by now but the old schooled refs, GM's and coaches that complained got their way and the attempted crackdown failed once again. I am sick and tired of watching refs TURN A BLIND EYE to obvious calls and if you watched hockey in the 80's you would know that most if not all obstruction, tripping, charging, hits from behind, slashing, holding was always called. The game is out of control now and decision makers and refs are reluctant to take a stand in order to fix the game. Short term pain for long term gain and more importantly to fix a broken game. Turn down the volume the next time you watch an NHL game and the play is BORING. Get the puck to the net, crash the net, run the goalies, collect the ugly goals - these are the expressions heard daily in hockey and no longer do we see odd man attacks, pretty passing plays, creative hockey, hockey that rewards skill and showcases stars. When the Forsbergs and Sakics of the game just look ordinary you know the game is in trouble.

iagreewithidiots 05-05-2004 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Complaining about officiating has never been as much of an epidemic as it is today, yet how the game is officiated really hasn't changed much at all as the complaining got worse, and I will tell you why...The Instant Replay.

Hey Im not accusing refs of being biased. Im not accusing them of any conspiracy.

So what you are saying is the officiating has always been terrible but now with replay, not exactly a brand new invention, we can see more blown calls. Would you like everyone to ignore it and say oh well, or use that additional knowledge to improve officiating?

Ill tell you what, Ill give you an example that has nothing to do with replay. Ive never watched a game that didnt feature at least half a dozen non calls on the puck carrier. Saw them live not on replay. Are you telling me with two refs not one of them is watching the play around the puck?

The NHL has said they wanted to crack down on obstruction away from the play. They didnt want to limit physical play on the puck carrier. As a result penalties go uncalled. Its terrible and stupid and its the leagues fault.

iagreewithidiots 05-05-2004 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kritty
Call every infraction no matter what? The NHL is having a hard enough time getting people to watch now, and then you want them to go and slow the game down by about 5 times in order to call all the penalties? That's insanity. Do you know how slow the game will be when there are 30-40 penalties every game? I can't understand how you can actually be for something like that.

Yes call every infraction no matter what. Why have a rule book if it doesnt apply in every situation?

Lets guess why nobody wants to watch the NHL. Would it be too many power plays? No, I think power plays can actually be entertaining. Would it be because star players are hooked, held, mugged, and hog tied? Now were on to something. How can you market stars if you dont allow them the best possible chance to succeed?

Gues what happens when officials call penalties? Give up? The players quit doing whatever it is they are doing wrong.

Dont be insane and suggest there would be 30-40 penalties a game. Thats just not going to happen.

Not calling penalties slows the game down. If players think they can get away with anything you better believe they will try. Allowing obstruction makes games unwatchalbe.

eye 05-05-2004 11:06 AM

The problem is that this lazy habit of not making obvious calls has trickled all the way down to the tyke level of hockey. Refs don't make obvious calls at any level now because they all get to go home that much earlier, take less heat and still collect their paychecks.

K215215 05-05-2004 12:59 PM

Watching the Kings Minnesota game last night i saw something amazing. I was able to enjoy watching Kevin Garnett play without being tug, held, and slapped everytime he got the ball. It was awesome...this huge skillful player actually was allowed to play. In the playoffs no less

eye 05-06-2004 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K215215
Watching the Kings Minnesota game last night i saw something amazing. I was able to enjoy watching Kevin Garnett play without being tug, held, and slapped everytime he got the ball. It was awesome...this huge skillful player actually was allowed to play. In the playoffs no less

NBA = rich TV contract, working under salary cap, consistent reffing, higher % of fans filling the seats, wider popularity and STARS SHINE in the NBA.

NHL = poor TV contract, no salary cap, inconsistent refs, higher % of empty seats in a gate driven league, overpaid players compared to other sports, fans-players-coaches all complain they no longer know which infractions will be called and rely on being suprised either way on almost every call and STARS are hidden under a barrage of interference and numerous other infractions that supports and helps checkers nullify offensive players and does not allow stars to be stars.


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