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-   -   Who said you need a proven G to win a cup? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=75938)

Steve L* 05-04-2004 09:59 PM

Who said you need a proven G to win a cup?
 
Esche, Khabibulin, Nabokov or Kipprusoff are going to win a cup. Not really the experienced playoff goalies everyone said you need to win the cup.

V for Voodoo 05-04-2004 10:05 PM

You don't need a proven goalie to win the cup, you just need a good one.

Trottier 05-04-2004 10:12 PM

Hmmm. Would you have said that anytime between now and 1996? ;)

Roy retired, Hasek is injured, Brodeur's team got knocked out, as did Belfour's. Its a changing of the guard, to an extent. But I have to disagree with the implication that experience in goal is not an advantage. With the exception of '98 (Osgood), it has proven so every season in the last eight.

PecaFan 05-04-2004 10:20 PM

And I'd argue that Khabby and Nabokov *are* proven goalies. They've been great for several years, a couple of the best in the league.

Remember, every goalie has to win their first Cup sometime. Hasek had to, Roy had to, Brodeur had to.

Bergeron47 05-04-2004 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo
You don't need a proven goalie to win the cup, you just need a good one.

Exacly.

Nabokov, Kipper, and Khabibulin are top 5 in NHL IMO.

Hellsempire 05-04-2004 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PecaFan
And I'd argue that Khabby and Nabokov *are* proven goalies. They've been great for several years, a couple of the best in the league.

Remember, every goalie has to win their first Cup sometime. Hasek had to, Roy had to, Brodeur had to.



Khabibulin vs. Nabokov in the SCF's! :thumbu:


:bolts vs. :sharks

cxreg 05-04-2004 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bergeron47
Exacly.

Nabokov, Kipper, and Khabibulin are top 5 in NHL IMO.

uh huh. and if Esche wins?

Trottier 05-04-2004 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cxreg
uh huh. and if Esche wins?

If Robert Esche and the Flyers win the Cup, he will immediately become the latter day Chris Osgood on these boards, a guy who some people here will claim won simply because "he played behind a really good team" :shakehead ....

...To the point of totally discrediting him for the accomplishment.

Utterly wrong in the case of Osgood, and it would be utterly wrong in the case of Esche (or any other goalie, for that matter). But it will happen. Promise.

rye&ginger 05-05-2004 12:19 AM

Esche has played well also, but wasnt as hot as he was in the first round. he looked a little lost at times in game 6 vs. the Laughs.

William H Bonney 05-05-2004 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rye&ginger
Esche has played well also, but wasnt as hot as he was in the first round. he looked a little lost at times in game 6 vs. the Laughs.

Yeah, but after the first round, everyone was touting Eddie Belfour as the best goalie in the world, and then Esche outplays him. What does the guy have to do?

ehc73 05-05-2004 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobey
Yeah, but after the first round, everyone was touting Eddie Belfour as the best goalie in the world, and then Esche outplays him. What does the guy have to do?

Problem is now everyone is going to say the Leafs let down Belfour, not that Esche outdueled Belfour. :dunno:

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve L
Esche, Khabibulin, Nabokov or Kipprusoff are going to win a cup. Not really the experienced playoff goalies everyone said you need to win the cup.


Well, the Bulin wall has been one of the top five netminders in the league for years. Kipprusoff and Nabokov are also two of the league's best. They may not be proven in the sense of having won cups, but these are all elite goalies.

AvengerK 05-05-2004 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trottier
If Robert Esche and the Flyers win the Cup, he will immediately become the latter day Chris Osgood on these boards, a guy who some people here will claim won simply because "he played behind a really good team" :shakehead ....

...To the point of totally discrediting him for the accomplishment.

Utterly wrong in the case of Osgood, and it would be utterly wrong in the case of Esche (or any other goalie, for that matter). But it will happen. Promise.

Sorry, but it's gonna take at least two good seasons as a starter for Esche to be considered good. The potential is certainly there. Oh, and BTW, I think Osgood is a great goaltender.

loveshack2 05-05-2004 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehc73
Problem is now everyone is going to say the Leafs let down Belfour, not that Esche outdueled Belfour. :dunno:

But that's because he didnt "outduel" anyone. Neither goalie was all that spectacular during the Flyers/Leafs series. Both were very good but I didn't think that either Eddie or Esche really took command of the series and stole any games. Niether pitched a single shutout and both had a pair 1 goal performances. I give Esche full credit, he was much better than I expected him to be but none of the games in this series turned out to be goaltending duels.

Tuggy 05-05-2004 01:45 AM

All 4 are good goalies. Really everyone has to start somewhere, it just happens that this the four remaining teams have goalies without rings. Also of the 4 teams, none of them are worried about their goaltending.

Nabokov :bow:

GoneFullHextall 05-05-2004 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehc73
Problem is now everyone is going to say the Leafs let down Belfour, not that Esche outdueled Belfour. :dunno:

Esche still isnt getting the credit he deserves. he has outplayed Broduer and Belfour. 2 surefire HOF goaltenders. The Flyers finally have no question marks in goal and Esche still cant get any respect.

PecaFan 05-05-2004 03:14 AM

Esche has had a decent year, and a solid playoffs. But as Avenger said, it's going to take more than one year before I start handing out the title "great".

Vlad The Impaler 05-05-2004 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve L
Esche, Khabibulin, Nabokov or Kipprusoff are going to win a cup. Not really the experienced playoff goalies everyone said you need to win the cup.

To answer the question in your thread title: people who only look at patterns because they don't know how else to proceed.

And there are lots of these.

sbutler66 05-05-2004 07:17 AM

Every proven goalie needs to get there for the first time, i don't see the big deal if there are four goalies who don't have that much experience or success in the playoffs making the conf finals, its gonna happen at some point.

I also like the point that someone made earlier, you don't need a proven goalie everytime, just a good one!

GKJ 05-05-2004 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve L
Esche, Khabibulin, Nabokov or Kipprusoff are going to win a cup. Not really the experienced playoff goalies everyone said you need to win the cup.


:highclap:


No Detroit, Dallas, Colorado, New Jersey for the first time since 1993 (Montreal, Islanders, LA Kings, Toronto).


Even if the Flyers don't win, it will be nice seeing some new teams in the finals. We don't have to be drowned by the 4 teams I just mentioned.

William H Bonney 05-05-2004 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PecaFan
Esche has had a decent year, and a solid playoffs. But as Avenger said, it's going to take more than one year before I start handing out the title "great".

Completely fair, but it only took one year for Giguere, or even Mikka this year.

Brad* 05-05-2004 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loveshack2
But that's because he didnt "outduel" anyone. Neither goalie was all that spectacular during the Flyers/Leafs series. Both were very good but I didn't think that either Eddie or Esche really took command of the series and stole any games. Niether pitched a single shutout and both had a pair 1 goal performances. I give Esche full credit, he was much better than I expected him to be but none of the games in this series turned out to be goaltending duels.

I think you could make a very good case that Esche stole game 6. The two goals he let in were goals he really didn't have much of a chance on, and he made countless big saves late in the third and in OT, like the one on Sundin and Domi which almost ended it.

loveshack2 05-05-2004 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersPhantoms33
I think you could make a very good case that Esche stole game 6. The two goals he let in were goals he really didn't have much of a chance on, and he made countless big saves late in the third and in OT, like the one on Sundin and Domi which almost ended it.

He did make some good saves but the fact that he allowed the Leafs to score two goals in the 3rd period to tie the game pretty well disqualifies it from being a "steal". I never said he didnt play well, but he didn't win the game for his team. If anyone stands out from last nights game as having a stand-out performance it's Roenick and Sundin not Esche or Belfour. I'm not trying to be down on Esche here because I actually think he's done quite well this year he's proven that he is a good goalie, I just dont think he's proven that he's a great goalie yet. On the other hand he hasn't shown that he's not one either.

Its not really fair to compare him to guys like Khabibulin and Nabakov who've been in the league for years and shown that they are top quality players year after year. Kiprusoff has only played half a year but he's been his team's MVP and seems to make highlight reel saves time after time after time and has been nominated for the Vezina already. Give Esche some more time and if he can continue to play at a high level I think you'll find people willing to give him more credit.

ChiTown Flyer 05-05-2004 06:49 PM

Technically, Grahame, Burke, Turek, or Toskala could also win the cup for their team. :lol
Seriously tho, all four have S% above 92 and GAA's around 2 or lower. So they are all really good goalies.
And in defense of Esche, if he wins the cup on a team that was really good, he'll still have won the cup.

AGraveOne 05-05-2004 06:59 PM

You need a solid team to win the cup. Period. A solid goalie is important for that as well. A goalie that wins the cup does not instantly become GREAT because he did. But he proves he is enough at the very least.

Team defense is huge these days. Look at the teams that are there - all have a defense first system.

The next series will be fun to watch and any of these goalies can steal games. So it is completely up for grabs.


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