HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Philadelphia Flyers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   Proposal: Trade for a Top NHL Winger (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=760028)

El Emperor 04-07-2010 09:24 AM

Trade for a Top NHL Winger
 
Since Briere's contract is pretty much keeping him in Philadelphia, why not make the most out of it. Keeping Briere, Richards and Carter on the team, we have 3 Centers that are top 6 forwards, which has been the reason Briere hasn't been there for most of the year. So why not use Jeff Carter to make a blockbuster trade for a great NHL winger?

Two players I have been campaigning for lately are Jerome Iginla or Rick Nash:
1. Iginla has lacked having a good center to play with for a long time now. I remember some rumors flying around that Calgary could trade him for the right offer. Not so much since the trade deadline, but its always a possibility. His marketablility would skyrocket moving from Calgary to Philadelphia.

2. Nash's team made the playoffs last season for the first time. He signed an 8 year extension assuming the team was on the rise and had turned around from being below average year after year. Columbus followed that up with an abysmal season, can't imagine how crappy it is to win a Gold medal then go back to your NHL team being a seller once again at the trade deadline. Nash gets wind of a team like the Flyers knocking at the door, I could imagine he would have his agent push the Blue Jackets to pull the trigger on the deal.

With Jeff Carter gone, Briere can take up a spot at center (his natural position). Not only that, but the Flyers would have one of the top wingers in the league to pass to. Additionally, both Nash and Iginla would be players the greedy NHL front office could market so much better on a high profile team. Maybe they would actually lift a finger and at least issue a statement when the refs are missing everything on the ice like they do for the Pens and Caps?

The NHL has become a player focused league and the Flyers have nobody that is marketable or that anyone cares about outside of Philly.

I would go as far to offer Jeff Carter and the 2011 1st rounder (especially for Nash since he's only 25 and guarenteed for 8 years). Would much rather get a proven player than chance a mid 1st round pick that won't produce for at least another 3 or 4 years. BTW, unlike Briere, both players have shown consistent numbers in previous seasons... they weren't prototypical elite players only in contract seasons.

Opus 04-07-2010 09:28 AM

Holy ****ing pipe dream batman...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Q0Kwh-GIDh...9ceb9b4e5c.jpg

Jester 04-07-2010 09:31 AM

I'm going to go bang my head against the wall...

...alright, back.

1) Briere is a defensive catastrophe at center, and isn't getting any younger or less injury prone. Trading away Carter and putting a line in Briere's hands at this point is a terrible idea.

2) Iginla makes $7M and is on the downside of his career. So, two things there: A) As much as we are in "win now" mode, Carter for Iginla would be a big net loss for us in a couple of years; B) Iginla's salary is prohibitive for us.

3) Nash isn't getting traded anyway. However, he has a $7.8M contract starting next year... so that's a no-go for us.

We are fine at forward...we have plenty of depth, and a couple young forwards as of now that will develop into very good players over the next couple of years.

Garbage Goal 04-07-2010 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 24982270)
I'm going to go bang my head against the wall...

...alright, back.

1) Briere is a defensive catastrophe at center, and isn't getting any younger or less injury prone. Trading away Carter and putting a line in Briere's hands at this point is a terrible idea.

2) Iginla makes $7M and is on the downside of his career. So, two things there: A) As much as we are in "win now" mode, Carter for Iginla would be a big net loss for us in a couple of years; B) Iginla's salary is prohibitive for us.

3) Nash isn't getting traded anyway. However, he has a $7.8M contract starting next year... so that's a no-go for us.

We are fine at forward...we have plenty of depth, and a couple young forwards as of now that will develop into very good players over the next couple of years.

This. I'd also like to add that if we get rid of Carter then we're really small down the center and at forward in general.

It's also not true that we don't have any marketable players. Richards, Carter, Pronger.

El Emperor 04-07-2010 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 24982270)
I'm going to go bang my head against the wall...

...alright, back.

1) Briere is a defensive catastrophe at center, and isn't getting any younger or less injury prone. Trading away Carter and putting a line in Briere's hands at this point is a terrible idea.

2) Iginla makes $7M and is on the downside of his career. So, two things there: A) As much as we are in "win now" mode, Carter for Iginla would be a big net loss for us in a couple of years; B) Iginla's salary is prohibitive for us.

3) Nash isn't getting traded anyway. However, he has a $7.8M contract starting next year... so that's a no-go for us.

We are fine at forward...we have plenty of depth, and a couple young forwards as of now that will develop into very good players over the next couple of years.

Good point, however... I will counter with two [EDIT] points:
1. Could it be possible to also trade Gagne to free up money? Let's be honest, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY we will be able to resign both Carter and Gagne next season, especially now that Gagne has returned to form. While he does have a no-trade clause, if it was to the right team for a pick? That puts the money issue to rest.

2. Do you even consider what bringing in a big name like an Iginla or a Nash would do for the Flyers? Why do you think the Pens and the Caps get all the press? Why do they get the calls and statements from the NHL when one of their precious players gets a little roughed up in a game? They get this attention because they have marketable stars. They have players that the NHL can put in front of a national audience and those same viewers will remember those players the next day. The Flyers currently have no one of that magnitude (other than they are a team of goons) <---Not my opinion btw!

With both Carter and Gagne gone, thats 10 million right there freed up and its not like the Flyers could afford to keep both of them anyway. I'm all for finding some way to get rid of the salary cap monster, but there's no possible way. The fact of the matter is, Carter is the ONLY player the Flyers have that could bring in a big name player and if they had the chance, they should do it.

El Emperor 04-07-2010 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbage Goal (Post 24982386)
It's also not true that we don't have any marketable players. Richards, Carter, Pronger.

You are in a fishbowl my friend. Richards is known for one thing right now, and that's the hit on David Booth. Jeff Carter I never see any mention on national commericals or broadcasts that don't involve the Flyers.

Defensemen just don't fit the bill when you are marketing the "new" NHL. Chris Pronger is well known to the players and fans with a great hockey knowledge, but not to the people the NHL are trying to market to.

In the Delaware Valley, yes, these names plus a few others on the team are marketable, but beyond that region, not so much.

Jester 04-07-2010 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan333 (Post 24982434)
Good point, however... I will counter with three points:
1. Could it be possible to also trade Gagne to free up money? Let's be honest, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY we will be able to resign both Carter and Gagne next season, especially now that Gagne has returned to form. While he does have a no-trade clause, if it was to the right team for a pick? That puts the money issue to rest.

So now we're moving Carter and Gagne...for one wing. Way to sweeten the pot...

Quote:

2. Do you even consider what bringing in a big name like an Iginla or a Nash would do for the Flyers? Why do you think the Pens and the Caps get all the press? Why do they get the calls and statements from the NHL when one of their precious players gets a little roughed up in a game? They get this attention because they have marketable stars. They have players that the NHL can put in front of a national audience and those same viewers will remember those players the next day. The Flyers currently have no one of that magnitude (other than they are a team of goons) <---Not my opinion btw!
Oh, good, conspiracy theory as a justification for a trade.

And the Flyers don't get attention? We're one of the most televised teams in the league...most teams in the NHL would kill for the attention we get. Who cares about the press? I mean seriously...

Quote:

With both Carter and Gagne gone, thats 10 million right there freed up and its not like the Flyers could afford to keep both of them anyway. I'm all for finding some way to get rid of the salary cap monster, but there's no possible way. The fact of the matter is, Carter is the ONLY player the Flyers have that could bring in a big name player and if they had the chance, they should do it.
$10M and 60+ goals, good penalty killing, and solid even strength defense...

Jester 04-07-2010 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan333 (Post 24982481)
You are in a fishbowl my friend. Richards is known for one thing right now, and that's the hit on David Booth. Jeff Carter I never see any mention on national commericals or broadcasts that don't involve the Flyers.

Defensemen just don't fit the bill when you are marketing the "new" NHL. Chris Pronger is well known to the players and fans with a great hockey knowledge, but not to the people the NHL are trying to market to.

In the Delaware Valley, yes, these names plus a few others on the team are marketable, but beyond that region, not so much.

Mike Richards was on Team Canada, the hardest team to make in the world...and Carter was the first alternate for that team. And given the way Bergeron played in the tourney, they probably wished they had Carter instead.

So, no, Mike Richards is not only known for the hit on Booth.

Mgkibbles 04-07-2010 09:54 AM

Super duper unlikely, but just for the sake of discussion...

Iginla's game is tailing off quickly, people are starting to point out he has trouble creating his own shots anymore.

Nash I'd love to have though.

El Emperor 04-07-2010 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 24982514)
Mike Richards was on Team Canada, the hardest team to make in the world...and Carter was the first alternate for that team. And given the way Bergeron played in the tourney, they probably wished they had Carter instead.

So, no, Mike Richards is not only known for the hit on Booth.

Key word there is "known." Yeah, he's known. His name is spoken and then that's it. Look, I'm not doubting his validity as a player, but Mike Richards is not what the NHL wants and that's why they don't lift a finger to help them out.

Being known and being marketable are two different things.

Jester 04-07-2010 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan333 (Post 24982571)
Key word there is "known." Yeah, he's known. His name is spoken and then that's it. Look, I'm not doubting his validity as a player, but Mike Richards is not what the NHL wants and that's why they don't lift a finger to help them out.

Being known and being marketable are two different things.

He was a Selke finalist last year...and received the most first place votes!

NHL isn't lifting a finger to help anyone...using conspiracy theories to make your argument isn't going to go anywhere. And why do you care about their marketability, do you own Comcast stock?

Jester 04-07-2010 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgkibbles (Post 24982549)
Super duper unlikely, but just for the sake of discussion...

Iginla's game is tailing off quickly, people are starting to point out he has trouble creating his own shots anymore.

Nash I'd love to have though.

Nash would be a fantastic pick up, but we can't afford his contract...and he's not getting dealt anyway.

El Emperor 04-07-2010 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 24982487)
So now we're moving Carter and Gagne...for one wing. Way to sweeten the pot...



Oh, good, conspiracy theory as a justification for a trade.

And the Flyers don't get attention? We're one of the most televised teams in the league...most teams in the NHL would kill for the attention we get. Who cares about the press? I mean seriously...



$10M and 60+ goals, good penalty killing, and solid even strength defense...

Again, after the 2010-11 season, Gagne will be an UFA and Carter a RFA. With the salary cap blunders since 2007, there's no way we can keep both. Throw out Iginla... we get a Top NHL winger for 8 seasons if the Nash deal was possible. No matter what, Gagne will walk in turn for nothing back to the Flyers. Why not trade him now to open up cap space for a great player.

And the conspiracy theory statement. You know, I will use it as justification. That Ottawa game was just way too hard to watch. Then to see NOTHING in terms of a statement from anyone outside of Philly. Then the Pens game a few days later with the same BS?

I will say it again, and you can yell at me all you want... Gary Bettman has turned this league in the NBA... marketable players get your team noticed and calls coming your way. I'm tired of the Flyers stereotyped as nothing but goons, especially after our own players get boarded with absolutely no calls against the other teams.

And yes, the Flyers DO get lots of attention... because we have great fans that watch EVERY game. NBC and Versus are guarenteed high ratings because of Philly fans. The attention I'm looking for is the attention of the NHL office protecting its investments. The Flyers could be in last place and would still get great ratings on national television.

El Emperor 04-07-2010 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 24982608)
He was a Selke finalist last year...and received the most first place votes!

NHL isn't lifting a finger to help anyone...using conspiracy theories to make your argument isn't going to go anywhere. And why do you care about their marketability, do you own Comcast stock?

Take it how you want, its not even conspiracy, its just that the NHL office doesn't care. Marketability for Comcast I could care less about. I'm talking about how the NHL pimps its stars and their teams.

5 years ago I wouldn't even consider what I'm prosposing today, but in today's NHL, the stars get EVERYTHING and having a big name star couldn't hurt.

Beef Invictus 04-07-2010 10:15 AM

are you an agent from pittsburgh?

Jester 04-07-2010 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan333 (Post 24982676)
Again, after the 2010-11 season, Gagne will be an UFA and Carter a RFA. With the salary cap blunders since 2007, there's no way we can keep both. Throw out Iginla... we get a Top NHL winger for 8 seasons if the Nash deal was possible. No matter what, Gagne will walk in turn for nothing back to the Flyers. Why not trade him now to open up cap space for a great player.

Well, we can't afford Nash...and after you deal Carter for him you're going to see why Briere was moved to the wing in the first place. Gagne is potentially signable, but it depends what you do with other players like Giroux (hey, look, a good young wing!).

Quote:

And the conspiracy theory statement. You know, I will use it as justification. That Ottawa game was just way too hard to watch. Then to see NOTHING in terms of a statement from anyone outside of Philly. Then the Pens game a few days later with the same BS?

I will say it again, and you can yell at me all you want... Gary Bettman has turned this league in the NBA... marketable players get your team noticed and calls coming your way. I'm tired of the Flyers stereotyped as nothing but goons, especially after our own players get boarded with absolutely no calls against the other teams.

And yes, the Flyers DO get lots of attention... because we have great fans that watch EVERY game. NBC and Versus are guarenteed high ratings because of Philly fans. The attention I'm looking for is the attention of the NHL office protecting its investments. The Flyers could be in last place and would still get great ratings on national television.
There is no way to deal with the above section... if you want to make decisions based on that rationale, go for it... but I think it has no bearing on what takes place on the ice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan333 (Post 24982725)
Take it how you want, its not even conspiracy, its just that the NHL office doesn't care. Marketability for Comcast I could care less about. I'm talking about how the NHL pimps its stars and their teams.

5 years ago I wouldn't even consider what I'm prosposing today, but in today's NHL, the stars get EVERYTHING and having a big name star couldn't hurt.

The NHL office having an opinion that has ramifications on the ice... is a conspiracy theory.

And I remain confused why you conflate having a star player's marketability with winning...other than having a great player, there's zero substance in the off ice stuff. Meanwhile, we don't hear much of anything about Nash and Iginla, so not sure why you think they'll alter the dynamic of the Crosby/Iginla show.

nuclear reactor 04-07-2010 10:25 AM

I'd be more interesting in trading Richards than Carter.

Here's an idea: Richards and Hartnell to Colorado for Chris Stewart and Milan Hejduk.

Gagne-Carter-Stewart
Van Riemsdyk-Giroux-Hejduk
Carcillo-Powe-Briere
Laperierre-Betts-Leino

With Hejduk at $3,000,000 and a Stewart pending a new contract, it might save some cap room to add a goalie and/or upgrade at third line center.

Garbage Goal 04-07-2010 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuclear reactor (Post 24982955)
I'd be more interesting in trading Richards than Carter.

Here's an idea: Richards and Hartnell to Colorado for Chris Stewart and Milan Hejduk.

Gagne-Carter-Stewart
Van Riemsdyk-Giroux-Hejduk
Carcillo-Powe-Briere
Laperierre-Betts-Leino

With Hejduk at $3,000,000 and a Stewart pending a new contract, it might save some cap room to add a goalie and/or upgrade at third line center.

Only way that that proposal is justifiable is if we're rebuilding which we're not. Even if we were, that trade would still be stretch at best.

El Emperor 04-07-2010 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 24982879)
Well, we can't afford Nash...and after you deal Carter for him you're going to see why Briere was moved to the wing in the first place. Gagne is potentially signable, but it depends what you do with other players like Giroux (hey, look, a good young wing!).



There is no way to deal with the above section... if you want to make decisions based on that rationale, go for it... but I think it has no bearing on what takes place on the ice.



The NHL office having an opinion that has ramifications on the ice... is a conspiracy theory.

And I remain confused why you conflate having a star player's marketability with winning...other than having a great player, there's zero substance in the off ice stuff. Meanwhile, we don't hear much of anything about Nash and Iginla, so not sure why you think they'll alter the dynamic of the Crosby/Iginla show.

It's your opinion, and I see the validity of it. Even so, I'll admit there's a conspiracy and I feel it's something that have cost the Flyers a few games (again, my opinion).

Anyway, Iginla is on the Calgary Flames and Nash is on the Blue Jackets... need any other evidence as to why you don't hear of them. However you did hear their names during the olympics, right? The Flyers are no doubt a high profile team, but along with that high profile comes only one widely reported trait: that they are a goon team. While I do not agree with this (as Carcillo for one has turned his game around), I can see why the national media and so-called "experts" keep this stereotype going... it's that the Flyers have nothing else on the team to talk about that the average viewer will remember after the game.

Let's see who wins the cup this year. Pens made two straight (won one) with two VERY marketable players making 8.7 million each. The Caps look to at least make the finals this year. Gee, I wonder what marketable player could be on that team?

I'm not saying that having a player like Nash is a catalyst for creating a Cup winning team, but it doesn't hurt to have a star player that forces the league to take extra interest into making sure they are treated right.

HoverCarle* 04-07-2010 10:39 AM

No one would trade for Richards with that long deal anyway. He is a flyer for life

And it would be easier just to keep Briere on the wing and develop JVR and Giroux than trade Crter

El Emperor 04-07-2010 10:42 AM

Well, getting beyond the arguement. Focusing in on trading away Carter and Gagne to make cap space. How much will each of these players cost the Flyers?

-Jeff Carter will eventually command close to if not beyond $7 million per year. Would that be a stretch or am I being stupid? LOL

-Simon Gagne is right now in full gear and showing that he is not a shadow of his former self. Makes $5.25 mil right now. How much will he want as an UFA after next season?

So wouldn't it make sense to get something for both? Maybe a 1st or 2nd rounder for Gagne and a prime aged top winger for Carter this offseason? Or do you think I'm just playing a game of NHL10 franchise mode?

FlyHigh 04-07-2010 10:49 AM

No...

El Emperor 04-07-2010 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyHigh (Post 24983272)
No...

Just the answer I was looking for, lol.

Talbetts 04-07-2010 10:51 AM

Although I would love to have either Iginla or Nash on our team, how much cheaper would David Backes be? I think he would be a great fit on our squad and could be had at a much more reasonable price.

Ryan Smyth is another guy that I love if we were to go the vet route....

Jester 04-07-2010 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan333 (Post 24983094)
It's your opinion, and I see the validity of it. Even so, I'll admit there's a conspiracy and I feel it's something that have cost the Flyers a few games (again, my opinion).

Anyway, Iginla is on the Calgary Flames and Nash is on the Blue Jackets... need any other evidence as to why you don't hear of them. However you did hear their names during the olympics, right? The Flyers are no doubt a high profile team, but along with that high profile comes only one widely reported trait: that they are a goon team. While I do not agree with this (as Carcillo for one has turned his game around), I can see why the national media and so-called "experts" keep this stereotype going... it's that the Flyers have nothing else on the team to talk about that the average viewer will remember after the game.

The national hockey media is a bunch of friggin idiots. Do yourself a favor, and stop paying attention to 'em. Sports journalism in general doesn't attract the brightest bulbs, and then you add on that hockey is a marginal sport in the US and you get the weakest elements of that group.

Quote:

Let's see who wins the cup this year. Pens made two straight (won one) with two VERY marketable players making 8.7 million each. The Caps look to at least make the finals this year. Gee, I wonder what marketable player could be on that team?
Yes, having VERY good players on your team can lead to positive results. That has NOTHING to do with with their "marketability."

Quote:

I'm not saying that having a player like Nash is a catalyst for creating a Cup winning team, but it doesn't hurt to have a star player that forces the league to take extra interest into making sure they are treated right.
The league DOES NOT take extra interest in the franchises. We have one of the most (if not the most) powerful owners in the sport. We have plenty of pull with the NHL. The NHL is run by morons...stupid crap happens with and to every team in the league. The Flyers are not getting singled out or ignored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hovercraft (Post 24983142)
No one would trade for Richards with that long deal anyway. He is a flyer for life

And it would be easier just to keep Briere on the wing and develop JVR and Giroux than trade Crter

I think teams would be thrilled to have Richards signed to that cheap of a deal long-term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan333 (Post 24983187)
Well, getting beyond the arguement. Focusing in on trading away Carter and Gagne to make cap space. How much will each of these players cost the Flyers?

-Jeff Carter will eventually command close to if not beyond $7 million per year. Would that be a stretch or am I being stupid? LOL

It's not a stretch, but I would wager he signs for less than that. Depends what he wants to do.

Quote:

-Simon Gagne is right now in full gear and showing that he is not a shadow of his former self. Makes $5.25 mil right now. How much will he want as an UFA after next season?
Given Gagne's injury struggles the last few years, I do not think he's looking at a huge cap hit going forward...or at least, he shouldn't be if teams are wise at all in their spending. Still a very good player, but you can't bank on him being in the lineup with the consistency you need from a player eating a lot of salary.

Quote:

So wouldn't it make sense to get something for both? Maybe a 1st or 2nd rounder for Gagne and a prime aged top winger for Carter this offseason? Or do you think I'm just playing a game of NHL10 franchise mode?
Gagne may be gone...but why not just keep Carter then? Show a little bit of faith in the development of JVR.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:50 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.