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-   -   How do I get by physical, disciplined defense? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=760165)

Escapades 04-07-2010 03:24 PM

How do I get by physical, disciplined defense?
 
I am a 5'10, 165 pound roller hockey forward. In the beer league I play in I can usually get by with my stick handling skills which are far above average for the league I'm in. However last night I got shut down by the other teams defense pretty badly. They had my number and a game plan to go with it and they stuck to it the whole game. They consistently took the body on me, shadowed me, blocked my shots, and double teamed me. I tried passing it as soon as possible but normally a lot of the offense flows through me so it made things difficult. What tips do you guys have for dealing with this?

vivianmb 04-07-2010 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapades (Post 24988735)
I am a 5'10, 165 pound roller hockey forward. In the beer league I play in I can usually get by with my stick handling skills which are far above average for the league I'm in. However last night I got shut down by the other teams defense pretty badly. They had my number and a game plan to go with it and they stuck to it the whole game. They consistently took the body on me, shadowed me, blocked my shots, and double teamed me. I tried passing it as soon as possible but normally a lot of the offense flows through me so it made things difficult. What tips do you guys have for dealing with this?

draw them to you
use them as screens
criss crossing
dump and chase
dump and hit

jlsg 04-07-2010 03:40 PM

If you are the only offense on the team, then there's not much you can do. The way to beat a strong d is puck movement and matchups. If you can't skate around them, then you have to move the puck through others and you find the open spot. However, if you are the offense then you'll have the focus. Shut you down you shut the team down. That's what I would do ;)

Jarick 04-07-2010 04:16 PM

Speed and/or puck movement...that's about it.

Webernaut 04-07-2010 05:11 PM

Dangle.

I was/am an inline player. I made the transition and tenderly love (can't say **** apparently) in my ice beer league. As soon as they start to play much more physical you have to start learning new moves to gain time and space. Good moves and shooting are all about the amount of space you have. Also, start working on moves that will likely draw penalties.

I use this a lot. Push the puck behind the dmen and then try to bull your way through the middle. This will likely lead to an interference call.

Hope that helps a little. If they are doing the same thing over and over then you have to adapt.

Hockeyfan68 04-07-2010 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapades (Post 24988735)
I am a 5'10, 165 pound roller hockey forward. In the beer league I play in I can usually get by with my stick handling skills which are far above average for the league I'm in. However last night I got shut down by the other teams defense pretty badly. They had my number and a game plan to go with it and they stuck to it the whole game. They consistently took the body on me, shadowed me, blocked my shots, and double teamed me. I tried passing it as soon as possible but normally a lot of the offense flows through me so it made things difficult. What tips do you guys have for dealing with this?

This may be a simple idea but it should be used by many beer league teams but it never is because most just have never played organized hockey and were never coached.

Use your point men. If you are being double teamed especially .... that means they have one less guy doing his job covering the point men. It also sounds like the guys you play with do not know how to cycle down low which can also make it difficult for the other team to stay in your jersey all night.

I play D and am always reminding guys to use us back there when they have nothing going on down low instead of coughing the puck up or throwing it around the boards deeper just drop it back to the point men and then get open.

You can then go for a rebound from the Dman's shot, tip in a shot pass, setup an assist, screen the goalie etc.

It opens the ice up for you. Hockey is a team sport and if your team is just watching you dangle they are not playing correctly to begin with and neither are you.

It is great when a guy can stick handle in a phone booth but you just learned why that is not the way to play hockey.

When a Dman figures out your toe drag and you keep doing it you will have a long bad night. Change things up don't always do the same thing. I'll give a quick example .... this guy we played against has a tremndous toe drag move. The team made sure I was out there as well as another guy who can handle that and we made him stop doing it. He instead faked a toe drag and made a pass and was more effective that way for his team.

Anyway my two cents from years of experience if you care to listen to it.;) use the fact you already know they are going to be right on you and draw them to you then make a pass to a guy who is open, probably the point man.

cptjeff 04-08-2010 03:48 AM

^Yup, you gotta make room for yourself. Instead of trying to do it yourself on the rush, pull up on the half boards and hit a teammate as he's barreling into the zone after you, or get it back to the point, or have a teammate rush down low and establish a cycle. Once the D are in, use the points to open up the ice. They'll draw defenders, so with some work around the outside you'll open up some nice passing and shooting lanes.

Just don't keep closing and try and force your way past the D. Unless you can accelerate to a good bit faster then you're going, you're not going to force your way around a guy. However, if you do enter the zone at half speed, holding the puck away from the D and hitting the jets can be a very effective move.

noobman 04-08-2010 08:47 AM

As an ice hockey player, I would throw on the brakes and take a shot at the net driving into the offensive zone, and hope that my teammates skate in for a rebound.

I guess you can't stop on a dime in roller hockey, though. In this case, it's good to have a set of moves and speed. Trick them into committing the wrong way, then use your speed to blow by them. Alternatively you could go around them, but given your weight disadvantage you'd have to have very good balance.

Don't forget that there's nothing wrong with a dump and chase, or a drop pass back to the point man (just make sure he's actually there!)

Webernaut 04-08-2010 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobman (Post 25002429)
As an ice hockey player, I would throw on the brakes and take a shot at the net driving into the offensive zone, and hope that my teammates skate in for a rebound.

I guess you can't stop on a dime in roller hockey, though. In this case, it's good to have a set of moves and speed. Trick them into committing the wrong way, then use your speed to blow by them. Alternatively you could go around them, but given your weight disadvantage you'd have to have very good balance.

Don't forget that there's nothing wrong with a dump and chase, or a drop pass back to the point man (just make sure he's actually there!)

Wat?

If you can't stop on a dime in roller then you're terrible lol

noobman 04-08-2010 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webernaut (Post 25008761)
Wat?

If you can't stop on a dime in roller then you're terrible lol

Well I don't play roller hockey, or rollerblade for that matter... so I wouldn't know.

Escapades 04-08-2010 04:12 PM

Thanks so much guys, this is all very helpful.

Do you know any specific dangles that are good for faking around the defense man? I have a good repertoire of moves but I'm always looking to expand :) I would kill for a few more outside-inside moves so I can get to the middle.

Webernaut 04-09-2010 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapades (Post 25010380)
Thanks so much guys, this is all very helpful.

Do you know any specific dangles that are good for faking around the defense man? I have a good repertoire of moves but I'm always looking to expand :) I would kill for a few more outside-inside moves so I can get to the middle.

Watch Ovechkin. He always figures out a way to get to the middle. I have two that I use that I picked up from watching him. The first and easiest to do is to come down on your backhand side and act as if you are going to try to go around the defenseman to the outside which will make him commit too deep. As soon as you have him deep enough, stick handle back to forehand and cut to the middle. You will have time and space which = goals. Another one would be again to come in back hand side and while the defenseman is skating with his stick out for a poke, slide the puck under his stick and cut to the middle again. Hope this helps a little bit. The second move I posted is my bread and butter. I have scored soooo many times using this. Also, I assumed you already know how to toe drag so I didn't bother posting that one. :yo:

Webernaut 04-09-2010 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobman (Post 25009104)
Well I don't play roller hockey, or rollerblade for that matter... so I wouldn't know.

Wasn't trying to be a dick but a good inline player can stop on a dime better then anyone can stop on ice. It's def easier to stop dead.

budster 04-09-2010 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webernaut (Post 25024798)
Wasn't trying to be a dick but a good inline player can stop on a dime better then anyone can stop on ice. It's def easier to stop dead.

Don't mean to hj this thread but what style stops do you find work best for you on rollerblades when going full speed?

Ragss 04-09-2010 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webernaut (Post 25024798)
Wasn't trying to be a dick but a good inline player can stop on a dime better then anyone can stop on ice. It's def easier to stop dead.


Hate to continue this derailment, but I find this claim very, very hard to believe.

JSTAFF 04-09-2010 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webernaut (Post 25024798)
Wasn't trying to be a dick but a good inline player can stop on a dime better then anyone can stop on ice. It's def easier to stop dead.

Not quite sure what the heck your talking about. Ice stopping > roller stopping and its not even close.

wearethegreek 04-09-2010 08:42 AM

If you want to make your entire roller experience better, get a set of Sprungs.

The best chassis I've ever used. Independent suspension lets you leave more wheels on the ice when your foot goes through its rockered push, thus making it feel like ice. More balance, sharper turns, you lose a tiny bit in the ability to make flat speed but your sure footing and quick feet can make up for it.

And trust me, trying to stop with a regular inline chassis is not as easy as stopping on ice. If you want to get good on it, use your heels moreso than your toes and swing your hips around so that you do a skid hockey stop on your heels.

This is much easier with a Sprung chassis.

Going from my sprungs from a high/lo or hummer or whatever, the fact of the matter is Sprungs make you feel like youre ice skating, doesn't mess up your stride and gives you more agility, including making it easier to stop. Make sure you kick your feet out in front of you when inline stopping because if you do stop on a dime your upper half will have more momentum shooting through it when your bottom half stops.

Open your shoulders, turn your hips with your strong foot inside. Pivot on that strong foot and start to drag that on your inside "wheel edge" and at the same time be swinging the outside foot in a half circle, pushing extra on the heels. Reaaly dig in, also it's much easier if you have a good deep knee bend. Just roll toward the boards for practice, and pretend you are just going to make a sharp u turn away from the boards. Before you get to the boards (say about the goal line) bend your knees and then start your turn stop.

Good luck.

wearethegreek 04-09-2010 08:48 AM

I got mine on closeout, but I would pay $135 for a new pair instantly. My friend at my LHS would swap them for free, but usually it can cost $20-40 to get them mounted. You use all the same wheel size for each chassis, up to 80. I use the A6 on my 9.5EE RBK 5ks and it fits perfectly with no excess wheel hang.

From the website:

Quote:

"The Patented Sprung Voodootech Chassis has Progressive Independent Suspension, so that all four wheels move separately in the frame, and the spring action gets stiffer as more pressure is applied.

They work just like high-end racing suspension on cars and motorcycles, only much simpler, thanks to our unique suspension system. These frames are the first time a suspension of this type has ever been used on anything in the world. As your weight moves forward or backward, you keep your balance much better because the suspension absorbs the weight transfer and keeps more wheels on the ground. As you push off, you go through the toe, from four, to three, to two wheels. The energy is stored in the polyurethane springs and then released, shooting you forward.

When you turn, as your weight shifts to the center of your legs, your turn goes from four down to two wheels, so that the turning radius is much shorter and quicker than a conventional chassis.

the new Sprung inline hockey chassis, ice color
Large A8 and medium A6 frames
What all of this does, besides making you much more stable and balanced on your skates, is make you quicker with a much tighter turning radius. They take off and carve through turns just like ice hockey blades. For roller hockey players, they are the best performing skates they've ever used, by far. For ice hockey players, they are instantly familiar, because they duplicate the action and performance of ice hockey blades, making it much easier to make the transition from ice to roller hockey. There is really very little difference between ice and roller hockey with these frames. Tests of our most recent model have proven the chassis is practically indestructible and can take impacts that would totally destroy an aluminum chassis.

Almost everyone that tries them loves them instantly, but our biggest growth area is among the skaters that play both roller and ice hockey."
-Also I can tell you I've taken a bunch of foot first slides into the boards when breaking up plays. The chassis can take a BEATING. Numerous times I would have smashed up an elite one up or even a vanguard but the PVC survived. Just bend your knees, the sprung absorbs alot and you can usually make it out with just a few new battle scars. They are tanks, last a while and the guy who runs the company will personnaly answer all emails or requests for parts. He'll even mount them for you properly if you send them to him in CA

Just make sure if you get them you bring them to a LHS that has THE LITTLE CRESCENT SHAPED HEAD for the riveter. A normal rivet head is too fat to fit around the chassis where you need it but the little guy is perfect. I'l also reccomend paying extra to make sure they use copper in crucial spots. Some LHS's will save money by giving you the crappy black rivets and charge you anyway. Demand copper.

Also I've been using the same chassis for 3 pairs of skates now so they last until you break em. And then you can fix them anyway. No need to keep getting used to something new.

Steelhead16 04-09-2010 11:43 AM

Back on topic.

Try to dump and chase if you have speed. They can't tie you up if you don't have the puck/ball. But if your linemates don't drive the net then you will just get stuck in the corner. If they can skate and get to the net then you can pass to the slot. If you are the better shooter then you can dump in the opposite corner and let the wing on that side chase it down and feed you in the slot.

If you are the only real player, then.....good luck to ya.

Hockeyfan68 04-09-2010 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webernaut (Post 25024798)
Wasn't trying to be a dick but a good inline player can stop on a dime better then anyone can stop on ice. It's def easier to stop dead.

I'm going to disagree with this, this comes from a guy who sold his roller stuff from almost killing himself several times because he played ice hockey his whole life haha.

I found stopping in roller to be extremely difficult and extremely different than ice hockey.

This board has seen MANY who transitioned from roller to ice and they had the same problems stopping because they were used to roller.

I would do as Noobman said and assume roller to be a not stopping on a dime activity. I know I just sick at it but whatever!!

I know guys who play it all the time can .... but from a novice to roller point of view i disagree with you :laugh: I even almost was killed taking a slapshot and then stopping on the puck out of habit like i would do on ice and took a terrible wipeout ass over teakettle. it was very brutal.

if the game was straight line with big turns or transitioning to skating backwards without stopping involved I would be okay ..... maybe... I would be all set:handclap:

Seanconn* 04-09-2010 07:30 PM

so how do you roller guys stop?

I just kinda pivot and do like a 180 type of deal and it works pretty well for stopping.

is there a better way? :laugh:

Webernaut 04-10-2010 12:42 AM

Most of the time you only utilize the back two wheels of your lead skate to stop. Turn, dig with all your weight on the heel of your front foot.

If you're a bigger guy and have heavy feet like me you can stop with both skates using basically the same technique with both feet instead. I tranisitioned from inline to ice about two years ago and only had an issue in the first game of pick up ice hockey. Now I can stop no prob on and surface.

budster 04-10-2010 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanconn (Post 25038922)
so how do you roller guys stop?

I think this subject deserves its own thread so I started one here: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=25052999


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