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-   -   Why aren't the Isles trying to for a pick? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=76132)

KH1 05-05-2004 04:57 PM

Why aren't the Isles trying to for a pick?
 
So we all know that either Hamrlik or Aucoin is nearly certainly going to be moved this offseason. There are all sorts of threads asking what kind of player could be gotten for them, but the one catch is that Mad Mike is trying to get young and relatively cheap.

So why not trade for a pick?

If I was Kevin Lowe I would trade Edmonton's second first rounder for Roman Hamrlik without question. It makes more sense for both teams then a proposed deal that would involve Steve Staios. So why aren't you doing this Milbury? And which teams would be willing to make this trade?

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Henry I
So we all know that either Hamrlik or Aucoin is nearly certainly going to be moved this offseason. There are all sorts of threads asking what kind of player could be gotten for them, but the one catch is that Mad Mike is trying to get young and relatively cheap.

So why not trade for a pick?

If I was Kevin Lowe I would trade Edmonton's second first rounder for Roman Hamrlik without question. It makes more sense for both teams then a proposed deal that would involve Steve Staios. So why aren't you doing this Milbury? And which teams would be willing to make this trade?


1) We don't know for certain that either player is going to be gone. Hamrlik, in fact, has made it clear that he would prefer to stay. Both players may well sign contracts to avoid the hassles associated with the upcoming CBA. Either way, I think a major move before the CBA negotiations is pretty unlikely.

2) How much of an emphasis on building with youth have you seen on the Island since the EVIL ONE took over as GM?

3) I don't know what Steve Staois deal you are making reference to here, but I'm not sure that player is even on the Isles radar.

4) Kevin Lowe is not going to trade for Hamrlik becaues he can't afford him. And, the Isles are going to want a heck of a lot more than a 2nd rounder.

IslesFan17 05-05-2004 05:30 PM

You're not going to find many teams willing to trade a good draft pick for Roman Hamrlik and pick up his salary demands.

I think there's a better chance of the Isles letting Hamrlik walk and not having to shell out any cash for him at all.

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslesFan17
You're not going to find many teams willing to trade a good draft pick for Roman Hamrlik and pick up his salary demands.

I think there's a better chance of the Isles letting Hamrlik walk and not having to shell out any cash for him at all.


I don't think either outcome is likely. The Isles are not letting Roman walk, and they're certainly not going to be able to get a high pick for him (for $ and age reasons).

IslesFan17 05-05-2004 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I don't think either outcome is likely. The Isles are not letting Roman walk, and they're certainly not going to be able to get a high pick for him (for $ and age reasons).

There has been a lot of talk of teams letting select RFA's walk rather then meet their salary demands. Hamrlik, after the way he played most of the season, is not worth the money he is going to want. And I wouldn't lock him up to a long term deal. He's injury prone.

Rumors of Hamrlik being traded have floated around for a few years, yet nothing has ever come of them. If there is a salary cap put in place, the Isles may not be able to deal him off after they sign him. Which would present another Jason Wiemer-type situation.

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslesFan17
There has been a lot of talk of teams letting select RFA's walk rather then meet their salary demands. Hamrlik, after the way he played most of the season, is not worth the money he is going to want. And I wouldn't lock him up to a long term deal. He's injury prone.

Rumors of Hamrlik being traded have floated around for a few years, yet nothing has ever come of them. If there is a salary cap put in place, the Isles may not be able to deal him off after they sign him. Which would present another Jason Wiemer-type situation.


I understand your argument, and I agree that could be one possible outcome of the sitaution. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

CREW99AW 05-05-2004 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslesFan17
There has been a lot of talk of teams letting select RFA's walk rather then meet their salary demands. Hamrlik, after the way he played most of the season, is not worth the money he is going to want. And I wouldn't lock him up to a long term deal. He's injury prone.

Rumors of Hamrlik being traded have floated around for a few years, yet nothing has ever come of them. If there is a salary cap put in place, the Isles may not be able to deal him off after they sign him. Which would present another Jason Wiemer-type situation.

There were 7-8 teams who tried to aquire Hamrlik during the yr,knowing he was arbitration eligible.

He's pushed since the preseason to get an extension with the isles,publicly said in Nov when his name was in trade rumors,that he wanted to remain.
As recently as the start of the TB/Isles series, he said he was glad the trade to TB hadn't gone thru.

nhl gms(Feaster and Muckler) have given interviews saying how hard it is to aquire a top pairing d-man.

Panthers are looking for 2 d-men and just before the trade deadline,one of FL's beatwriters had a good article about how overexpansion has watered down the talent,making it hard to aquire a quality dman.

Spectors says that Phoenix is a good bet to shop the #5 ovverall for a top d-man.
Hawks,Thrashers are all looking for a top pairing guy.

and you think a 2nd is all Hamrlik will bring or the nyi won't qualifying him in this type of market?

:rolleyes:

TVanek26* 05-05-2004 07:14 PM

I would trade a 2nd and 5th for Hamrlik.....He isn't worth a 1st though IMO.

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
I would trade a 2nd and 5th for Hamrlik.....He isn't worth a 1st though IMO.


$ and contract issues may prevail, and cause Hamrlik to be undervalued on the market. I think all Islander fans have to face that reality. But, if $ don't do the talking (and, again, that might well happen), there is no way you get Hamrlik at that price.

IslesFan17 05-05-2004 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
There were 7-8 teams who tried to aquire Hamrlik during the yr,knowing he was arbitration eligible.

He's pushed since the preseason to get an extension with the isles,publicly said in Nov when his name was in trade rumors,that he wanted to remain.
As recently as the start of the TB/Isles series, he said he was glad the trade to TB hadn't gone thru.

nhl gms(Feaster and Muckler) have given interviews saying how hard it is to aquire a top pairing d-man.

Panthers are looking for 2 d-men and just before the trade deadline,one of FL's beatwriters had a good article about how overexpansion has watered down the talent,making it hard to aquire a quality dman.

Spectors says that Phoenix is a good bet to shop the #5 ovverall for a top d-man.
Hawks,Thrashers are all looking for a top pairing guy.

and you think a 2nd is all Hamrlik will bring or the nyi won't qualifying him in this type of market?

:rolleyes:

7 or 8 teams? I remember Tampa and I remember Chicago. Who are the other 6 teams you are talking about?

And just because he's asking for an extension doesn't mean he is going to get it. The Isles are going to get Aucoin signed before they even talk to Hamrlik.

And it's funny Dudley talked about the panthers need for a 2-way d-man, he traded Sandis Ozolinsh away last year. Obviously they can't fit a high priced d-man into their budget.

Hamrlik, at around $4million is not going to fit into the budget of many teams.

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslesFan17
7 or 8 teams? I remember Tampa and I remember Chicago. Who are the other 6 teams you are talking about?

And just because he's asking for an extension doesn't mean he is going to get it. The Isles are going to get Aucoin signed before they even talk to Hamrlik.

And it's funny Dudley talked about the panthers need for a 2-way d-man, he traded Sandis Ozolinsh away last year. Obviously they can't fit a high priced d-man into their budget.

Hamrlik, at around $4million is not going to fit into the budget of many teams.


We don't know for sure what really happened, but there were more teams than Tampa and the ChiHawks RUMORED to be interested in Hamrlik. There were RUMORS that a half dozen teams were scouting him.

As far as Aucoin is concerned, I'm not at all sure the Isles will try to sign him before the "even talk to Hamrlik." In fact, I expect Hamrlik to be a higher priority largely because he is apparently willing to pass up a shot at UFA status and Aucoin hasn't shown that interest.

You're making a lot of strong assumptions here, and the reality is that it could go either way.

IslesFan17 05-05-2004 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
We don't know for sure what really happened, but there were more teams than Tampa and the ChiHawks RUMORED to be interested in Hamrlik. There were RUMORS that a half dozen teams were scouting him.

As far as Aucoin is concerned, I'm not at all sure the Isles will try to sign him before the "even talk to Hamrlik." In fact, I expect Hamrlik to be a higher priority largely because he is apparently willing to pass up a shot at UFA status and Aucoin hasn't shown that interest.

You're making a lot of strong assumptions here, and the reality is that it could go either way.

I'm going with the assumption that Aucoin, who is their best overall d-man and most important player, would be their top priority.

There's a possibility that they resign him. But there's an equally good possibility that they just let him walk. The organization doesn't have a ton of money to throw around.

TVanek26* 05-05-2004 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
$ and contract issues may prevail, and cause Hamrlik to be undervalued on the market. I think all Islander fans have to face that reality. But, if $ don't do the talking (and, again, that might well happen), there is no way you get Hamrlik at that price.


If money wasn't an issue,I would give a pick between 20-30....


But money is an issue in this day and age and Hamrlik is nearing UFA age and is somewhat expensive.

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
If money wasn't an issue,I would give a pick between 20-30....


But money is an issue in this day and age and Hamrlik is nearing UFA age and is somewhat expensive.


I can't argue with your logic. I guess we'll see.

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslesFan17
I'm going with the assumption that Aucoin, who is their best overall d-man and most important player, would be their top priority.

There's a possibility that they resign him. But there's an equally good possibility that they just let him walk. The organization doesn't have a ton of money to throw around.


I guess I disagree. I don't think signing Aucoin will be the main priority, because I don't think Aucoin is even interested in negotiating an extension at this point.

CREW99AW 05-05-2004 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslesFan17
7 or 8 teams? I remember Tampa and I remember Chicago. Who are the other 6 teams you are talking about?

And just because he's asking for an extension doesn't mean he is going to get it. The Isles are going to get Aucoin signed before they even talk to Hamrlik.

And it's funny Dudley talked about the panthers need for a 2-way d-man, he traded Sandis Ozolinsh away last year. Obviously they can't fit a high priced d-man into their budget.

Hamrlik, at around $4million is not going to fit into the budget of many teams.


TB,Tor,Chicago,St. Louis.Daily News reported the Wings scouted him after Hatcher was injured and cbs sportsline rumor mill reported in Nov that the Flames and Isles held talks about Hamrlik.Were those teams unaware somehow that he was arbitration eligible?

FL press reported a few weeks ago Luongo has told the Panthers to get defensive help.
And the yr the Panthers traded Ozo they had a much higher payroll.Moving Bure alone took $3m off their payroll.

There have been articles and comments from writers the last few weeks about the Thrashers,Hawks and Yotes wanting a #1 d-man.


and just because Hamrlik's asking for $4m a yr, doesn't mean that'll be the final number.He doesn't want to become ufa with a cap in place.

Last summer Leetch's was forced to take an almost $3m paycut,despite having a strong yr.Last summer we saw ufas like Fedorov and Hatcher sign below what writers and analysts had predicted.

Hamrlik's($3.5m) going to arbitration the same summer that Gonchar's($3.6m) going.Big difference is that Gonchar scored 58/59 pts to Hamrlik's 29 pt.

I think the Isles have a better chance of getting Hamrlik locked up longterm then Aucoin.Hamrlik wants to stay on LI.I haven't heard/read one comment from Aucoin, about wanting to stay past his ufa date in 2005.

CREW99AW 05-05-2004 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
If money wasn't an issue,I would give a pick between 20-30....


But money is an issue in this day and age and Hamrlik is nearing UFA age and is somewhat expensive.


Do you think the teams that made pitches for Hamrlik realized he was an rfa this summer?
Do ya think those teams knew he'd be in line for a raise?

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Do you think the teams that made pitches for Hamrlik realized he was an rfa this summer?
Do ya think those teams knew he'd be in line for a raise?


I understand what you are arguing, but it is also hard to fault DB48's logic. He is right that $ and contracts are going to speak strongly this summer.

CREW99AW 05-05-2004 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I understand what you are arguing, but it is also hard to fault DB48's logic. He is right that $ and contracts are going to speak strongly this summer.

Why would the Yotes be willing to offer up the 5th overall pick for a top pairing d-man,if gms felt a market for top pairing defensemen was suddenly going to open up?

Darth Milbury 05-05-2004 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Why would the Yotes be willing to offer up the 5th overall pick for a top pairing d-man,if gms felt a market for top pairing defensemen was suddenly going to open up?


First of all, the Yotes haven't made that trade yet, so it is difficult to make any conclusions.

Second, my guess is that if the Yotes do make a deal involving their pick, it won't be for a 30-YO guy who makes in the range of 4 million a year. It will be for a young stud who is not overpaid.

Trottier 05-06-2004 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I don't think either outcome is likely. The Isles are not letting Roman walk, and they're certainly not going to be able to get a high pick for him (for $ and age reasons).

I'm really surprised in your response, Darth. Not every team operates on a shoestring budget. And Hamrlik is 30! C'mon! I know we differ with regard to ages of players, but a 30 year old dman with Hamrlik's background and skills wouldn't fetch a high pick?! Not #1 overall, but high?

Absolutely!

I personally think you and others are overstating the wealth of talent that will be on the market by virtue of the pending CBA. Of course, if there is a cap, that changes everything. But regardless if there is no cap or a $10 cap :joker:, top dmen are going to remain in very high demand.

Darth Milbury 05-06-2004 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trottier
I'm really surprised in your response, Darth. Not every team operates on a shoestring budget. And Hamrlik is 30! C'mon! I know we differ with regard to ages of players, but a 30 year old dman with Hamrlik's background and skills wouldn't fetch a high pick?! Not #1 overall, but high?

Absolutely!

I personally think you and others are overstating the wealth of talent that will be on the market by virtue of the pending CBA. Of course, if there is a cap, that changes everything. But regardless if there is no cap or a $10 cap :joker:, top dmen are going to remain in very high demand.


Which of the teams with a high pick would be willing to give it up for Hamrlik? I can't see even one.

CREW99AW 05-06-2004 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Which of the teams with a high pick would be willing to give it up for Hamrlik? I can't see even one.


doesn't Chicago have a high pick?Chicago beatwriters are the ones who reported the Hawk gm talking about a big deal involving Hamrlik+Parrish last Nov.

30 yr old Hamrlik wants a multi yr extension.The team trading for him won't be getting 1 yr of Hamrlik,they'll be getting several yrs.


He made $3.6m when the Hawks tried aquiring him.He wants a $400,000 raise on a multi-yr extension.

$400,000 not $2m-$3m.

CREW99AW 05-06-2004 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trottier
I personally think you and others are overstating the wealth of talent that will be on the market by virtue of the pending CBA. Of course, if there is a cap, that changes everything. But regardless if there is no cap or a $10 cap :joker:, top dmen are going to remain in very high demand.


I agree.

I also think that some fans are expecting a slam dunk win by the owners,with a tight cap.

I'm expecting a luxury tax,which will allow the same 5-6 high spending teams to just go over budget and be penalized by coughing up cash.

If there's a $40m budget,does anyone think the Wings who spent $80m this yr,will balk at paying a luxury tax?

At one point the Ranger payroll was about $80m before the trades.Avs,Leafs,Stars,Blues all had payrolls well above that $40m mark.

IslesFan17 05-06-2004 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
doesn't Chicago have a high pick?Chicago beatwriters are the ones who reported the Hawk gm talking about a big deal involving Hamrlik+Parrish last Nov.

30 yr old Hamrlik wants a multi yr extension.The team trading for him won't be getting 1 yr of Hamrlik,they'll be getting several yrs.


He made $3.6m when the Hawks tried aquiring him.He wants a $400,000 raise on a multi-yr extension.

$400,000 not $2m-$3m.

The value of Hamrlik is a bit less then what Columbus got for Darryl Sydor. Hamrlik is not going to get you a high 1st round pick.

And there is no way you'd get Chicago's pick. They'd take Cam Barker if they wanted a #1 d-man for their organization. They wouldn't trade for a 30 yr old d-man who doesn't fit into their rebuilding plans.


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