HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Toronto Maple Leafs (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   Your Prototypical NHL Team - and how close / far the Leafs are from it (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=761918)

Drew75 04-11-2010 04:05 PM

Your Prototypical NHL Team - and how close / far the Leafs are from it
 
Ok - I'm preping for a long summer, so here just some conversation fodder.

Those who know something about hockey understand that a good team is the sum of it's parts - where your pluggers and role players are just as important to win as your stars. Here's what I would see as the (realistic) ideal make-up of a contender. In brackets I've put who I think could potentially fill that spot from the current Leaf organization in a couple of years - if anyone.

Forwards:
1 - playmaking centre - 90 - 100 point range. (Kadri?)
2 - Sniper winger - 40+ goals, 80 + points. (Kessel)
3 - Power Forward winger - 70 - 90 points, goes to the dirty areas, defensively responsible. (Need - ideal type = Iginla (in his prime))

4 - Solid 2 Way centre - 70 - 90 point range. (Bozak?)
5 - Offensive winger - 60 - 80 point range. (Need - maybe Sharp?)
6 - Power forward winger - 60 - 70 point range (Kulemin, Caputi or Stalberg?)

7 - Strong 2 way centre, defensively responsible - 50 point range. (J. Mitchell? B. Irwin? C. Hanson?)
8 - Speedy 2 way checking winger, great shut down guy with offensive potential - 40 - 50 point range. (Hanson? Kulemin?)
9 - Tough as nails checker with the ability to put the puck in the net - 40 - 50 point range (need - ideal would be a Hartnell without the contract)

10 - Defensive, big, energy centre - 20 - 30 point range (Mitchell? Ideal would have been Primeau a few years ago).
11 - Enforcer - 15 - 25 points - (Orr)
12 - High Energy PK specialist -20 - 30 point range - (sjostrom?)

Defense:
1 - Offensive PMD - 50 - 60 point range (Phaneauf)
2 - Great 2 way D with a great outlet pass but defensively responsible - 40 - 60 point range (Gunnarson? beauchemin?)

3 - Good 2 way PMD, 2nd PP guy - 40 - 50 point range (Gunnarson? Blacker?)
4 - Good 2 way D with more of a shut down role - 30 - 50 point range (Schenn)

5 - Big, defensive, shut dowm D - 20 - 30 point range (Aulie?)
6 - Big, defensive, shut dowm D - 20 - 30 point range (Komisarek)

Goalies
1 - Game Stealer, definitive number 1 (potentially Gustavsson?)
2 - Solid Back Up, able to push the top guy (Need - I think a Harding would be good)

Discuss Away.

smoke meat pete* 04-11-2010 04:10 PM

At your low end, you have 615 points for your forwards. San Jose has about 500 for their forwards this year.

and another 200 for your defenceman.

Leafan519 04-11-2010 04:27 PM

Looks like the highest scoring team in history with those projections. I dont think you need 6 forwards scoring 70-100 points a year to be a succesful team. Also I think James Reimer has the potential to be at least a solid backup for the leafs in a couple years.

hockeystick89 04-11-2010 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew75 (Post 25081465)
Ok - I'm preping for a long summer, so here just some conversation fodder.

Those who know something about hockey understand that a good team is the sum of it's parts - where your pluggers and role players are just as important to win as your stars. Here's what I would see as the (realistic) ideal make-up of a contender. In brackets I've put who I think could potentially fill that spot from the current Leaf organization in a couple of years - if anyone.

Forwards:
1 - playmaking centre - 90 - 100 point range. (Kadri?)
2 - Sniper winger - 40+ goals, 80 + points. (Kessel)
3 - Power Forward winger - 70 - 90 points, goes to the dirty areas, defensively responsible. (Need - ideal type = Iginla (in his prime))

4 - Solid 2 Way centre - 70 - 90 point range. (Bozak?)
5 - Offensive winger - 60 - 80 point range. (Need - maybe Sharp?)
6 - Power forward winger - 60 - 70 point range (Kulemin, Caputi or Stalberg?)

7 - Strong 2 way centre, defensively responsible - 50 point range. (J. Mitchell? B. Irwin? C. Hanson?)
8 - Speedy 2 way checking winger, great shut down guy with offensive potential - 40 - 50 point range. (Hanson? Kulemin?)
9 - Tough as nails checker with the ability to put the puck in the net - 40 - 50 point range (need - ideal would be a Hartnell without the contract)

10 - Defensive, big, energy centre - 20 - 30 point range (Mitchell? Ideal would have been Primeau a few years ago).
11 - Enforcer - 15 - 25 points - (Orr)
12 - High Energy PK specialist -20 - 30 point range - (sjostrom?)

Defense:
1 - Offensive PMD - 50 - 60 point range (Phaneauf)
2 - Great 2 way D with a great outlet pass but defensively responsible - 40 - 60 point range (Gunnarson? beauchemin?)

3 - Good 2 way PMD, 2nd PP guy - 40 - 50 point range (Gunnarson? Blacker?)
4 - Good 2 way D with more of a shut down role - 30 - 50 point range (Schenn)

5 - Big, defensive, shut dowm D - 20 - 30 point range (Aulie?)
6 - Big, defensive, shut dowm D - 20 - 30 point range (Komisarek)

Goalies
1 - Game Stealer, definitive number 1 (potentially Gustavsson?)
2 - Solid Back Up, able to push the top guy (Need - I think a Harding would be good)

Discuss Away.

If Kadri becomes a 90-100 point first line center in the next 5 years he'd probably be considered the best player drafted since Stamkos, ie. not likely to happen.

Actually I think most of your stats are off. But take them away and your player rolls probably aren't that far off what we're actually going to see.

Dutch Dreams 04-11-2010 04:58 PM

First off, I'd like which teams I liked; those were the late 90's Devils and Stars - perfect teams really.

On the Stars you had a star center in Modano, a chraracter guy who could just absolutely blast it in Hull, a faceoff beast an playmaker in Nieuwendyk - a crazy top offensive pairing in Sydor-Zubov and a monster in Hatcher... then you had a supporting cast of 2-way guys in Verbeek, Langenbrunner, Lehtinen, and some passionate veteran grinders in Keane, Muller and Carboneau...

The Joisey teams had some highly skilled wingers who owned the Leaf's by the way in Sykora and Elias, gritty two-way centers in Holik, Madden and Arnott, a monster top-pairing in Niedermayer and that hulk Stevens... and a feisty supporting cast of Mackay, Odelein, Pandolfo, Brylin, Oliwa, Daneyko... these were dominant teams

Just speaking of the Leaf's I think we've got an OK 'core' going forward you see...

______-Kadri-Kessel
Kulemin-Bozak-_____
Sjostrom-Hanson-___
_______-Primeau-Orr

Phaneuf-Schenn
Komisarek-Beauchemin
Gunnarsson-_________

Giguere
Gustavsson

On the top-lines we've got a talented scoring center in Kadri developing and a sniper in Kessel. I think what we're missing up there is a scoring power-forward. It's not Caputi. It's not Stalberg, and Kulemin can't do all the work. Who is this guy? Beach? Neal?

On the second, along with what looks to be a pretty promising 2-way supporting cast in Kulemin and Bozak, we're missing another player of the sorts in a 2-way support-scoring winger. Again, it's not Stalberg or Caputi, it's none of our prospects yet.. so who is it? Sharp? Maybe...

On the third, we've got a speedy special teams specialist in Sjostrom and a promising center prospect in Hanson, who looks to have some untapped offensive potential, and even speed for a big man... what we're missing though is a scorer-agitator along the lines of what we had in Tucker. Who is this guy? Could be somebody like Clarkson or Armstrong...

The fourth line we've got our enforcer and a veteran center in Primeau... this is really an enigma on the team as we could slot anybody into here, anybody that's not performing up to par that is, which looks like Wilson has been doing this season - with Stalberg, with Caputi, etc... so let's reserve this spot for purgatory

On the defense really the only thing we're missing is a reliable 6th defenseman, who isn't Exelby, isn't Finger, isn't anyone of the prospects... so who is it? I don't know about this one...

So basically what I think we're missing for next season is this..... a scoring power-forward, a 2-way scoring winger, a 3rd line agitator-scorer, an extra bottom-six special-teams specialist, and a reliable bottom-six defenseman...

I'll just put something together that resembles what I'd like of what may be available...

Beach-Kadri-Kessel
Kulemin-Bozak-Sharp
Sjostrom-Hanson-Armstrong
Nystrom-Primeau-Orr

Phaneuf-Schenn
Komisarek-Martin
Beauchemin-Gunnarsson

Giguere
Gustavsson

Cap? Martin UFA. Nystrom UFA. Armstrong UFA. Kaberle to Washington for Alzner, 1st 010' ---> Beach, Sharp for Alzner, Washington 1st 010', Caputi

AlMo 04-11-2010 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew75 (Post 25081465)
Ok - I'm preping for a long summer, so here just some conversation fodder.

Those who know something about hockey understand that a good team is the sum of it's parts - where your pluggers and role players are just as important to win as your stars. Here's what I would see as the (realistic) ideal make-up of a contender. In brackets I've put who I think could potentially fill that spot from the current Leaf organization in a couple of years - if anyone.

Forwards:
1 - playmaking centre - 90 - 100 point range. (Kadri?)
2 - Sniper winger - 40+ goals, 80 + points. (Kessel)
3 - Power Forward winger - 70 - 90 points, goes to the dirty areas, defensively responsible. (Need - ideal type = Iginla (in his prime))

4 - Solid 2 Way centre - 70 - 90 point range. (Bozak?)
5 - Offensive winger - 60 - 80 point range. (Need - maybe Sharp?)
6 - Power forward winger - 60 - 70 point range (Kulemin, Caputi or Stalberg?)

7 - Strong 2 way centre, defensively responsible - 50 point range. (J. Mitchell? B. Irwin? C. Hanson?)
8 - Speedy 2 way checking winger, great shut down guy with offensive potential - 40 - 50 point range. (Hanson? Kulemin?)
9 - Tough as nails checker with the ability to put the puck in the net - 40 - 50 point range (need - ideal would be a Hartnell without the contract)

10 - Defensive, big, energy centre - 20 - 30 point range (Mitchell? Ideal would have been Primeau a few years ago).
11 - Enforcer - 15 - 25 points - (Orr)
12 - High Energy PK specialist -20 - 30 point range - (sjostrom?)

Defense:
1 - Offensive PMD - 50 - 60 point range (Phaneauf)
2 - Great 2 way D with a great outlet pass but defensively responsible - 40 - 60 point range (Gunnarson? beauchemin?)

3 - Good 2 way PMD, 2nd PP guy - 40 - 50 point range (Gunnarson? Blacker?)
4 - Good 2 way D with more of a shut down role - 30 - 50 point range (Schenn)

5 - Big, defensive, shut dowm D - 20 - 30 point range (Aulie?)
6 - Big, defensive, shut dowm D - 20 - 30 point range (Komisarek)

Goalies
1 - Game Stealer, definitive number 1 (potentially Gustavsson?)
2 - Solid Back Up, able to push the top guy (Need - I think a Harding would be good)

Discuss Away.

Don't you think you're being just a tad bit generous here?

Kadri as the 90 point guy? He's played on NHL game
Kessel as the 40 goal, 80 point guy? Let's have him achieve one of those feats first
Bozak as a 70-90 point guy? It would be nice but I'm still not ready to call Bozak a sure fire 2nd line center
Mitchell, Hanson a shut down center? Not even close

Bottom line is, the Leafs are not remotely close to being a contending team. They have some decent pieces in place with Kessel, Kadri, Bozak, Phaneuf, Gunnarson and the Monster but 4 of the 6 are still unproven commodities and the Leafs have alot of holes to plug in. I like your optimism but it's also unrealistic.

hullsy47 04-11-2010 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlMo (Post 25084325)
Don't you think you're being just a tad bit generous here?

Kadri as the 90 point guy? He's played on NHL game
Kessel as the 40 goal, 80 point guy? Let's have him achieve one of those feats first
Bozak as a 70-90 point guy? It would be nice but I'm still not ready to call Bozak a sure fire 2nd line center
Mitchell, Hanson a shut down center? Not even close

Bottom line is, the Leafs are not remotely close to being a contending team. They have some decent pieces in place with Kessel, Kadri, Bozak, Phaneuf, Gunnarson and the Monster but 4 of the 6 are still unproven commodities and the Leafs have alot of holes to plug in. I like your optimism but it's also unrealistic.

lets start off 500 instead of winless in 8 or whatever.10 more points this year and wed have been close.dont rule out burke trading at the draft .

JacobimMugatu 04-11-2010 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlMo (Post 25084325)
Don't you think you're being just a tad bit generous here?

Kadri as the 90 point guy? He's played on NHL game
Kessel as the 40 goal, 80 point guy? Let's have him achieve one of those feats first
Bozak as a 70-90 point guy? It would be nice but I'm still not ready to call Bozak a sure fire 2nd line center
Mitchell, Hanson a shut down center? Not even close

Bottom line is, the Leafs are not remotely close to being a contending team. They have some decent pieces in place with Kessel, Kadri, Bozak, Phaneuf, Gunnarson and the Monster but 4 of the 6 are still unproven commodities and the Leafs have alot of holes to plug in. I like your optimism but it's also unrealistic.

Last season Kessel missed 12 games from mono, when he came back he didn't score a goal for another 11 games because he came back too early.

Excluding that stretch of illness Kessel scored 36 goals in 59 games which is on pace for exactly a 50 goal season.

That is something most people miss when they see that 36 goal season from him.

BudMaster17 04-11-2010 05:43 PM

Team Canada, but it ain't gonna happen

LAX attack* 04-11-2010 05:49 PM

First line Power Forward = Chris Stewart *drools*

Hero 04-11-2010 07:07 PM

Your team makes Washington look like its hard pressed for points

bobermay 04-11-2010 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abraham Simpson (Post 25086816)
First line Power Forward = Chris Stewart *drools*

Your absolutely right, but this might be too big of a dream :cry:

Idealy, we need 2 top six forwards.. one or two more bottom six, and a defender to replace Kabby.



I'd love to see a roster of:

Brunnette-Bozak-Stewart
Kulemin-Kadri-Kessel
Torres-Hanson-Caputi
Sjostrom-Artyhukin-Orr

Phaneuf-Komisarek
Beachemin-Burns
Gunnarsson-Schenn

Giguere
Gustavsson

... but its never going to happen :cry:



To Colorado:
Jimmy Hayes :cry:
Tomas Kaberle
Viktor Stalberg

To Toronto:
Chris Stewart

To Minnesota:
Mikhail Grabovski
Juraj Mikus
Mikhail Stefanovich
Kenny Ryan

To Toronto:
Brent Burns
Andrew Brunnette
(salary dump)

Duffman955 04-11-2010 08:57 PM

I think we may be 2 top six power forwards away from making the playoffs with some character guys as well. Something along the lines of:

Clowe/Neal-bozak-kessel
kulimen-kadri-horton/stewart
sjostrom-hanson-clarkson
Rosehill-primeau-orr

Defense is fine how it is.

smoke meat pete* 04-11-2010 10:07 PM

Making the playoffs depends on development. If they develop well, they will need one more top 6 guy. I'm a believer you need 4 top talents with 2 complimentary guys on your top 6. It's a luxury to have 3 top talents on your top line.

The Podium 04-11-2010 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew75 (Post 25081465)
Ok - I'm preping for a long summer, so here just some conversation fodder.

Those who know something about hockey understand that a good team is the sum of it's parts - where your pluggers and role players are just as important to win as your stars. Here's what I would see as the (realistic) ideal make-up of a contender. In brackets I've put who I think could potentially fill that spot from the current Leaf organization in a couple of years - if anyone.

Forwards:
1 - playmaking centre - 90 - 100 point range. (Kadri?)
2 - Sniper winger - 40+ goals, 80 + points. (Kessel)
3 - Power Forward winger - 70 - 90 points, goes to the dirty areas, defensively responsible. (Need - ideal type = Iginla (in his prime))

4 - Solid 2 Way centre - 70 - 90 point range. (Bozak?)
5 - Offensive winger - 60 - 80 point range. (Need - maybe Sharp?)
6 - Power forward winger - 60 - 70 point range (Kulemin, Caputi or Stalberg?)

7 - Strong 2 way centre, defensively responsible - 50 point range. (J. Mitchell? B. Irwin? C. Hanson?)
8 - Speedy 2 way checking winger, great shut down guy with offensive potential - 40 - 50 point range. (Hanson? Kulemin?)
9 - Tough as nails checker with the ability to put the puck in the net - 40 - 50 point range (need - ideal would be a Hartnell without the contract)

10 - Defensive, big, energy centre - 20 - 30 point range (Mitchell? Ideal would have been Primeau a few years ago).
11 - Enforcer - 15 - 25 points - (Orr)
12 - High Energy PK specialist -20 - 30 point range - (sjostrom?)

Defense:
1 - Offensive PMD - 50 - 60 point range (Phaneauf)
2 - Great 2 way D with a great outlet pass but defensively responsible - 40 - 60 point range (Gunnarson? beauchemin?)

3 - Good 2 way PMD, 2nd PP guy - 40 - 50 point range (Gunnarson? Blacker?)
4 - Good 2 way D with more of a shut down role - 30 - 50 point range (Schenn)

5 - Big, defensive, shut dowm D - 20 - 30 point range (Aulie?)
6 - Big, defensive, shut dowm D - 20 - 30 point range (Komisarek)

Goalies
1 - Game Stealer, definitive number 1 (potentially Gustavsson?)
2 - Solid Back Up, able to push the top guy (Need - I think a Harding would be good)

Discuss Away.

dont see phaneuf as a PMD i can see blacker filling that role on the 2nd line and PP in a few years

your point predictions are way too high

the leafs are missing 3 things 1st line PWF 2nd line scoring winger and an agitator(avery type player would be perfect)

____ - Kadri(2 years from now) - Kessel
Kulemin - Bozak - ______
Stalberg - Hanson - Caputi
Sjostrom - ______ - Orr

Phaneuf - Schenn (offensive D paired with Defensively responsible D)
Blacker - Gunnarsson
Komi - Aulie (deadly)

this would be a decent playoff team if the spots can be filled hopefully within 2 years from now

CanadianCap8 04-12-2010 12:03 AM

Long time lurker here. This has been on my head for a while now even though it won't happen

What is the chance of Plekanec being lured away by money away from Montreal?

I think he is the best realistic centre available of about the right age. At some point montreal has to Pay Halak or Price this year... guys need minor money they already have almost 22 million tied up in Gomez, Cammeleiri, Kostitsyn, Gionta...
Kaberle and Van Ryn are presumably coming off the books this year freeing up a little money to spend... I see the worst case scenario is Plekanec gets bumped down to the second line when Kadri is ready in about 2-3 years.

Thoughts, even though he isn't really a Burke guy

CanadianCap8 04-12-2010 12:10 AM

**** it got posted twice,
Umm I guess I'll just add something.

As a Caps and Leafs fan: **** the Habs?

Lebanese Leaf 04-12-2010 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobermay (Post 25092019)
Your absolutely right, but this might be too big of a dream :cry:

Idealy, we need 2 top six forwards.. one or two more bottom six, and a defender to replace Kabby.



I'd love to see a roster of:

Brunnette-Bozak-Stewart
Kulemin-Kadri-Kessel
Torres-Hanson-Caputi
Sjostrom-Artyhukin-Orr

Phaneuf-Komisarek
Beachemin-Burns
Gunnarsson-Schenn

Giguere
Gustavsson

... but its never going to happen :cry:



To Colorado:
Jimmy Hayes :cry:
Tomas Kaberle
Viktor Stalberg

To Toronto:
Chris Stewart

To Minnesota:
Mikhail Grabovski
Juraj Mikus
Mikhail Stefanovich
Kenny Ryan

To Toronto:
Brent Burns
Andrew Brunnette

(salary dump)

Why the hell are we giving up so much for a #2 pairing D-man and a 37 year old 20 goal guy? :shakehead:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.