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-   -   Post Game Talk: So...you still wanna fire Homer? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=768016)

flyersfan1221 04-23-2010 08:50 PM

So...you still wanna fire Homer?
 
Ian Laperriere's blocked shot changed the way the remainder of these playoffs will be viewed by fans and players around the world. The mushfaced Philadelphia Flyers winger sacrificed his body for the team (I think Homer knew something the rest of us didn't)...a credo often talked about in the media but rarely seen on display in the "New NHL". As I sit and watch game five between Montreal and Washington and listen to the talking heads ruminate about the effect of Lappy's sacrifice on his own team I can't help but notice how many Canadien and Caps players are suddenly giving it up for their respective teams...


Pronger, Boucher and Laperriere have reignited the passion of NHL playoff hockey for us all. If you saw the play you knew that Philly would not lose this game....as a matter of fact I contend that New Jersey basically quit after the face block. They knew that the Flyers wanted it more and no matter how much lip service guys like Kovalchump paid to predictions Lappy's sacrifice was the exactly what leads to championships. (I can just imagine what Marty was thinking to himself at that point)
I'm 44 and have seen some remarkable feats in sports ...i'm just not sure how many have changed a game or more importantly, a championship run, the way this play has done? The Flyers will be a tough out from this point on...Bring on Washington!

No matter what happens the rest of the way...I will admire Ian Laperriere as an athlete / person forever.

GO FLYERS

Yukon Cornelius 04-23-2010 08:55 PM

Great ****in' Post brother!

Hollywood Couturier 04-23-2010 09:05 PM

So because Homer signed Lappy we should forget all of his other **** ups?

GKJ 04-23-2010 09:07 PM

Let's wait until we raise that big shiny silver thing in the middle of June.


And if that doesn't happen, the season is still a failure.


The worst thing the Flyers can do is ignore the needs of this team based on beating up on the Devils.

Viller 04-23-2010 09:08 PM

Never did, probably never will want to.

He built a playoff team and its showing pretty clearly. Injuries are making people doubt him wich makes absolutely no sense... Sure there is Jones and a few other bad moves, but every team that is capped team has to do this.

I love his aggressive style, Id cry myself to sleep if we had to "Rebuild" every 3-4 years like many teams "have" to do. Holmgren should be credited (and Clarke) for this not having to happen(Great drafting and good UFA signings).

mypunkrock 04-23-2010 09:08 PM

Saw this video on Lappy earlier.

Homer has done some great things in tandem with the scouting department. Unfortunately, this was after some of his blunders. Diamonds in the rough are always good, but there's more to it than that. They should fire their CBA lawyer.

Using Lappy as an example, he's taken some serious injuries, and is still not a small cap hit if he has to go on LTIR or retires within the next two years (since he was signed over age 35). I'm not going to debate whether or not Lappy is an awesome person and player, but these type of things need to be considered as well.

Regards,
Rick

Jester 04-23-2010 09:11 PM

Yes, I do.

Bob Clarke Fan Club 04-23-2010 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon (Post 25417333)
So because Homer signed Lappy we should forget all of his other **** ups?





No...I agree with you here. I love this team and I'm proud of the beatdown they laid on the Debbies, but I can't look past the blunders. I'd still want Homer in the organization, I really like him and admire what he's accomplished and overcome as a person and a player.


Outstanding post though. I love the spirit and fans like you give me hope.

mm6492 04-23-2010 09:13 PM

Yes I do, as well.

jb** 04-23-2010 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 (Post 25417385)
Let's wait until we raise that big shiny silver thing in the middle of June.


And if that doesn't happen, the season is still a failure.


The worst thing the Flyers can do is ignore the needs of this team based on beating up on the Devils.

Sadly that is how they think. They will blame injuries once again instead of incompetence and really taking a long look at why they failed. The only positive is all the beat writers and other outlets do keep reporting and mentioning that finding a goalie is their #1 priority. We shall see.

MsWoof 04-23-2010 09:21 PM

I don't want to think about it while the playoffs are on.

sobrien 04-23-2010 09:23 PM

I give Homer a pass because he turned us from an embarrassment in 06-07 to a ECF team in 07-08.

He realizes the goaltending situation is a problem, and did what he could this year...going for a cheap, quick fix.

I'm sure he's learned his lesson with the ridiculous contracts, I think you can tell he was frustrated with not being able to do anything at this years trade deadline because of the clauses given out to Briere and Hartnell (Clarke gave Gagne his i believe).

You know that Homer had to overpay and offer clauses to get talent like Briere, Timonen, and Hartnell to sign here long term after the 07 debacle...and personally I'm grateful for that. I couldn't stand sucking for consecutive seasons

So to answer the OPs question, no i don't want to fire Homer, I never did. Hindsight is always 20-20

jb** 04-23-2010 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sobrien (Post 25417791)
He realizes the goaltending situation is a problem, and did what he could this year...going for a cheap, quick fix.



You know that Homer had to overpay and offer clauses to get talent like Briere, Timonen, and Hartnell to sign here long term after the 07 debacle...and personally I'm grateful for that. I couldn't stand sucking for consecutive seasons

He had no chouice but to sign a cheap quick fix.

This isnt the ny isles. he shouldnt have to overpay or give ntc despite that bad season. Players know that was unlikely to happen again. Player sknow what orginizations want to win.

Cmoneyflyguy 04-23-2010 09:45 PM

Homer has made bad decisions with contracts, but you have to like the signings he made this year.
He took a gamble on Emery, and IMO, it worked.
The gamble was whether he would be a headcase, and he wasn't.
The gamble was if he was still good, and he was.
NObody could have predicted that he would get injured.

And no injuries aren't an excuse, but they are a factor.

IMO, his MAJOR Eff up was not firing stevens sooner.

FlyHigh 04-23-2010 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy (Post 25418255)
Homer has made bad decisions with contracts, but you have to like the signings he made this year.
He took a gamble on Emery, and IMO, it worked.
The gamble was whether he would be a headcase, and he wasn't.
The gamble was if he was still good, and he was.
NObody could have predicted that he would get injured.

And no injuries aren't an excuse, but they are a factor.

IMO, his MAJOR Eff up was not firing stevens sooner.

No ****ing way.

If Boosh hadn't discovered a time machine, we'd be out of the playoffs right now.

Emery was decent for us, but I wouldn't call someone who played 29 games a successful gamble.

Cmoneyflyguy 04-23-2010 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyHigh (Post 25418301)
No ****ing way.

If Boosh hadn't discovered a time machine, we'd be out of the playoffs right now.

Emery was decent for us, but I wouldn't call someone who played 29 games a successful gamble.

read the rest of the post. The gamble was not his health. IT was whether:
1 - he could still play (yes)
2 - he'd be a headcase (no)

flyersfan1221 04-23-2010 09:57 PM

Do you always focus on the negative? We just won a playoff series...something that looked improbable two weeks ago.
BTW....name THE GM that has always made the right move... at the right time...for the right price...

Relax and enjoy the moment or you may keep missing the fun...

FlyHigh 04-23-2010 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy (Post 25418412)
read the rest of the post. The gamble was not his health. IT was whether:
1 - he could still play (yes)
2 - he'd be a headcase (no)

It was absolutely a gamble on his health.

As I have pointed out numerous times, Emery had played less than 40 games in each of the previous seasons and likely played those games with plenty of breaks and backup starts.

Now people can say that this injury was unpredictable, but at the same time, Emery was a guy who hadn't handled a starter's load in over 2 years and we came out and played him in 16 of our first 17 games. Then he gets the abdominal injury (that he apparently didn't tell the training staff about) and then when he tries to make the comeback, we discover that he has this hip thing.

Look, when you sign a guy that hasn't been an NHL starter in 2 years and played last year in f'ing Russia, there's an inherent amount of risk involved. You can't just say, "oh, well the things I was expecting to go wrong didn't go wrong, so it's an automatic success." In a case like that, a lot of the risk is just totally unpredictable and it's essential to have a good backup plan.

Homer has gotten extremely lucky that Boosh got himself together at the right time.

flyersfan1221 04-23-2010 10:01 PM

Why not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon (Post 25417333)
So because Homer signed Lappy we should forget all of his other **** ups?

Why not...I'm still glow'in from the beat down our guys just laid on NJ:banana::banana::banana:

Jester 04-23-2010 10:05 PM

Remember, though, Lappy was brought in to win faceoffs...and that has been an epic failure.

BillyShoe1721 04-23-2010 10:09 PM

Don't want to worry about it in the playoffs. If (or when) we get knocked out, I'll go back to hating him. His screw ups aren't made up for signing Lappy, although it has turned out to be a very solid signing. I'll give him until the end of this offseason and proclaim his term as a GM a success or failure.

Jester 04-23-2010 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 (Post 25418830)
Don't want to worry about it in the playoffs. If (or when) we get knocked out, I'll go back to hating him. His screw ups aren't made up for signing Lappy, although it has turned out to be a very solid signing. I'll give him until the end of this offseason and proclaim his term as a GM a success or failure.

Yeah, I never had a problem with the signing...just him lying to us (not sure I like the length of the deal, or that if you go back and change a few things we could have Knuble instead).

FlyHigh 04-23-2010 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 25418877)
Yeah, I never had a problem with the signing...just him lying to us (not sure I like the length of the deal, or that if you go back and change a few things we could have Knuble instead).

I've actually been thinking about this a little bit recently. Without a doubt Knuble was a lot more valuable than I thought he was, can't deny it.

However, we scored 232 goals this year as opposed to 260 in 08-09.

From that 08-09 roster, we essentially lost 52 goals in Lupul and Knuble although 10 of those were directly offset with Pronger coming back our way.

But then with 09-10, you have to consider a couple things.

- Hartnell's baffling drop in production. We have our differing opinions, but I think 25 goals would have been a reasonable expectation, 11 more than what he produced.

- Carter's drop/injury, I think 40 was a reasonable expectation and he had an outside shot at hitting it, but he only hit 33, so 7 short of what could be expected.

- Briere and Gagne combined for 45 goals last year. Considering those are both 30 goal guys normally, I think 60 would have been a reasonable expectation.

So going into the season, from those 4 players, I think 115 goals would have been a reasonable expectation (injuries, guys slumping, etc. playing a factor).

Instead, we got 87 out of them. Coincidentally, that gap between actual production and reasonable expectation is 28 goals, the exact gap between this year's production and last year's.

I mean, going into the year, expecting full seasons from Giroux, JVR, and Briere/Gagne, it may not have been unreasonable to not resign Knuble especially since it allowed us to grab Lappy and Betts whose contribution has really gone beyond the scoresheet, having that 4th line has been a huge asset all season and especially in the playoffs.

So with all those factors, I do begin to think that Lappy/Betts for Knuble may have been a defensible tradeoff at the start of the year although we certainly missed Mike.

FlyHigh 04-23-2010 10:43 PM

Damn, I was reading through the points prediction thread before the season just to get an idea of what we were expecting and ran across this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valhoun (Post 20846957)
Also, Mike Richards will either have linemates that aren't up to his skillset offensively and/or will be on the PK all game long. I'm going to guess 65 points. Which will still be stellar considering what he will be asked to do. Also, I am assuming Pronger will take away some points from players that have traditional done well on the PP.

Richie's primary linemates: Carcillo and often-hurt Simon Gagne, final production 62 points.

Briere's PP points in 07-08 (his only healthy season prior to this one): 37. Briere's PP points this year: 17.

Not bad Valhoun.

Jester 04-23-2010 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyHigh (Post 25419411)
I've actually been thinking about this a little bit recently. Without a doubt Knuble was a lot more valuable than I thought he was, can't deny it.

However, we scored 232 goals this year as opposed to 260 in 08-09.

From that 08-09 roster, we essentially lost 52 goals in Lupul and Knuble although 10 of those were directly offset with Pronger coming back our way.

But then with 09-10, you have to consider a couple things.

- Hartnell's baffling drop in production. We have our differing opinions, but I think 25 goals would have been a reasonable expectation, 11 more than what he produced.

- Carter's drop/injury, I think 40 was a reasonable expectation and he had an outside shot at hitting it, but he only hit 33, so 7 short of what could be expected.

- Briere and Gagne combined for 45 goals last year. Considering those are both 30 goal guys normally, I think 60 would have been a reasonable expectation.

So going into the season, from those 4 players, I think 115 goals would have been a reasonable expectation (injuries, guys slumping, etc. playing a factor).

Instead, we got 87 out of them. Coincidentally, that gap between actual production and reasonable expectation is 28 goals, the exact gap between this year's production and last year's.

I mean, going into the year, expecting full seasons from Giroux, JVR, and Briere/Gagne, it may not have been unreasonable to not resign Knuble especially since it allowed us to grab Lappy and Betts whose contribution has really gone beyond the scoresheet, having that 4th line has been a huge asset all season and especially in the playoffs.

So with all those factors, I do begin to think that Lappy/Betts for Knuble may have been a defensible tradeoff at the start of the year although we certainly missed Mike.

I think you probably have Betts either way... what irks me is that it's really a "do something about Randy Jones" situation, and not signing Lappy...and there's Knuble on this roster.

Lappy is certainly a good addition independent of that, but I would prefer Knuble for this season and next.


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