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-   -   Proposal: Thrashers trade for Briere??? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=76968)

Beakermania* 05-09-2004 10:31 PM

Proposal: Thrashers trade for Briere???
 
With the chemistry he and heatley showed at the WCs what would be the price if Atlanta wanted to bring him in so they could play at a full time basis.

Please submit proposals that would make sense for both teams.

GoM 05-09-2004 10:40 PM

No clue, but I would be one happy-ass mother****er if they did bring him to Atlanta. I love Danny.

Buffalo Stylee 05-09-2004 10:43 PM

Be prepared to give up a lot to get him. He was the MVP for the Sabres this year and he will command a big return.

Takeo 05-09-2004 10:53 PM

Thread title is misleading.

Not a chance Briere is moved. Although I'd consider it for Coburn + 1st. Not quite Chris Gratton, but it may do.

cws 05-10-2004 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeo21
Thread title is misleading.

Not a chance Briere is moved. Although I'd consider it for Coburn + 1st. Not quite Chris Gratton, but it may do.

I agree that Buffalo would ask a lot in return, even though I think it would be a bad move on their part to trade him.

But Coburn and a first? Not even if Regeir's best day coincided with Waddell's worst day. Probably would have been best just to say Briere won't get moved, a lot less contempt thrown your way for others who might be looking for a fight (not that a Buffalo-Atlanta thread attracts much attention anyhow).

thome_26 05-10-2004 02:05 AM

Savard + third maybe for Briere? Beats me - but thats the only logical move I see, lol - maybe Slava back to Buffalo lol!

Peter Sidorkiewicz 05-10-2004 04:33 AM

Thrashers don't need to trade for Briere when they already have a better player centering Heatley in Marc Savard. He has just as good chemistry with Heater than with Briere and was getting over a point per game this season before he got injured.

The thrashers do need a center for Kovalchuk however but I don't think Briere would be the right fit. It won't suit Atlanta by having two small centers.

McDonald19 05-10-2004 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz
Thrashers don't need to trade for Briere when they already have a better player centering Heatley in Marc Savard.

Many would say Briere is the better player.

Classic Devil 05-10-2004 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz
Thrashers don't need to trade for Briere when they already have a better player centering Heatley in Marc Savard. He has just as good chemistry with Heater than with Briere and was getting over a point per game this season before he got injured.

The thrashers do need a center for Kovalchuk however but I don't think Briere would be the right fit. It won't suit Atlanta by having two small centers.

Briere is a better player than Savard, and it's not really close.

Darth Milbury 05-10-2004 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame_Star_Devil
Briere is a better player than Savard, and it's not really close.


No, but if a deal involving Briere were to happen (and I'm not saying it could) Savard would be the likely principal. The other ideas proposed here assume that Briere wouldn't be dealt unless there is a vast overpayment. That may be true, but then why bother having a thread if all we are going to do is throw out unbalanced deals?

Takeo 05-10-2004 10:51 AM

I don't think a prospect like Coburn + a highend pick is that much of an overpayment. The draft is a crapshoot out of the top 5 this year and a prospect is still a prospect. Briere is an emerging talent with documented chemistry with the Thrashers' star, and they give up nothing off the current roster. That said, neither GM would do it.

Darth Milbury 05-10-2004 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeo21
I don't think a prospect like Coburn + a highend pick is that much of an overpayment. The draft is a crapshoot out of the top 5 this year and a prospect is still a prospect. Briere is an emerging talent with documented chemistry with the Thrashers' star, and they give up nothing off the current roster. That said, neither GM would do it.


Briere is a smallish 25- 30 goal scorer. I think his play this season was impressive, especially under the circumstances. And, you are right that he MAY have "emerging" talent - but that is just a projection as much as a pick or Coburn is a project. This is not an elite centermen.

Briere has market value but he is not a player who is going to return a very nice prospect and a relatively high first round pick. That is a serious overpayment.

The deal that was proposed above, Savard and a third rounder seems about fair to me. In fact, Savard's PPG dwarfed Briere's and Savard is much more fiesty (and, yeah, I understand the comparison should not be direct because of the different citicumstances). Not saying either GM would do it, but it is fair.


Put it this way, would think it was fair if Buffalo traded their 1st rounder and a top prospect for Savard? That is not far off from what you are proposing.

Drake1588 05-10-2004 12:19 PM

One obstacle in this proposal is the underlying motivation. The proposal is driven by a successful pairing of Briere with Heatley at the Worlds... so some want to talk trade. It is not difficult to understand why Atlanta makes a trade, but look at it from Buffalo's point of view, look to Buffalo's depth. Teams generally make trades out of surplus to fill gaps. Apples for oranges.

In Buffalo's case, they are not overflowing with skilled scoring centers. Briere is cheap, productive and just what Buffalo needed. After Drury, the talent pool at center takes a real dip. Brown is now in SJ, and Briere is a rather key cog in the machine in Buffalo. So they need to bring back a center if they deal one of their more productive centers away. So we're down to discussing apples for apples proposals, trades that so rarely fit team needs.

Why do these teams make a deal? Well it's easy from Atlanta's perspective -- the key player in question has chemistry with their star winger. From Buffalo's perspective, the likely centerpiece is Marc Savard, plus something extra. Now while Savard is coming off a very good season, cut short by injuries, one could make a convincing argument that he has a checkered history. One cannot say with confidence that in a new season, in a new environment, he can be counted on to produce at a 60-point pace once again. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but Buffalo would be dealing what they consider a sure thing and accepting some risk.

So from their standpoint, I do not believe it makes sense unless that "something extra" from Atlanta is significant. Atlanta would resist adding much more than a third or perhaps second rounder, and I think a trade like this falls apart at that point. You have to find a way to convince Buffalo management that the team improves. Briere for Savard and a 3rd/2nd does not really do that.

Apples for apples trades rarely work, chiefly because it is not a simple matter to come up with a swap that measurably improves each side when the centerpieces are similar player types.

What I gather Buffalo really needs is a trade for a bruiser, a Denis Gauthier, for example, though I am not certain what assets from the farm or the forward corps would fit the bill.

cws 05-10-2004 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake1588
One obstacle in this proposal is the underlying motivation. The proposal is driven by a successful pairing of Briere with Heatley at the Worlds... so some want to talk trade. It is not difficult to understand why Atlanta makes a trade, but look at it from Buffalo's point of view, look to Buffalo's depth. Teams generally make trades out of surplus to fill gaps. Apples for oranges.

In Buffalo's case, they are not overflowing with skilled scoring centers. Briere is cheap, productive and just what Buffalo needed. After Drury, the talent pool at center takes a real dip. Brown is now in SJ, and Briere is a rather key cog in the machine in Buffalo. So they need to bring back a center if they deal one of their more productive centers away. So we're down to discussing apples for apples proposals, trades that so rarely fit team needs.

Why do these teams make a deal? Well it's easy from Atlanta's perspective -- the key player in question has chemistry with their star winger. From Buffalo's perspective, the likely centerpiece is Marc Savard, plus something extra. Now while Savard is coming off a very good season, cut short by injuries, one could make a convincing argument that he has a checkered history. One cannot say with confidence that in a new season, in a new environment, he can be counted on to produce at a 60-point pace once again. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but Buffalo would be dealing what they consider a sure thing and accepting some risk.

So from their standpoint, I do not believe it makes sense unless that "something extra" from Atlanta is significant. Atlanta would resist adding much more than a third or perhaps second rounder, and I think a trade like this falls apart at that point. You have to find a way to convince Buffalo management that the team improves. Briere for Savard and a 3rd/2nd does not really do that.

Apples for apples trades rarely work, chiefly because it is not a simple matter to come up with a swap that measurably improves each side when the centerpieces are similar player types.

What I gather Buffalo really needs is a trade for a bruiser, a Denis Gauthier, for example, though I am not certain what assets from the farm or the forward corps would fit the bill.

Besides, Savard and Heatley have had some damn good chemistry playing together. And that was over the course of an entire NHL season, not just a tournament of a few games where players are just thrown together. From Atlanta's perspective, does it make sense to break up what they know to work at the NHL level for something that worked in a handful of games outside the NHL?

This kind of deal doesn't really address the needs of either team, like you said.

SabresRule 05-10-2004 01:20 PM

Briere willl NOT be moving. BUT if Regier got drunk and he did make a dumbass desicion, it'd be for Coburn to start with. + whatever regeir could think of.

Darth Milbury 05-10-2004 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake1588
One obstacle in this proposal is the underlying motivation. The proposal is driven by a successful pairing of Briere with Heatley at the Worlds... so some want to talk trade. It is not difficult to understand why Atlanta makes a trade, but look at it from Buffalo's point of view, look to Buffalo's depth. Teams generally make trades out of surplus to fill gaps. Apples for oranges.

In Buffalo's case, they are not overflowing with skilled scoring centers. Briere is cheap, productive and just what Buffalo needed. After Drury, the talent pool at center takes a real dip. Brown is now in SJ, and Briere is a rather key cog in the machine in Buffalo. So they need to bring back a center if they deal one of their more productive centers away. So we're down to discussing apples for apples proposals, trades that so rarely fit team needs.

Why do these teams make a deal? Well it's easy from Atlanta's perspective -- the key player in question has chemistry with their star winger. From Buffalo's perspective, the likely centerpiece is Marc Savard, plus something extra. Now while Savard is coming off a very good season, cut short by injuries, one could make a convincing argument that he has a checkered history. One cannot say with confidence that in a new season, in a new environment, he can be counted on to produce at a 60-point pace once again. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but Buffalo would be dealing what they consider a sure thing and accepting some risk.

So from their standpoint, I do not believe it makes sense unless that "something extra" from Atlanta is significant. Atlanta would resist adding much more than a third or perhaps second rounder, and I think a trade like this falls apart at that point. You have to find a way to convince Buffalo management that the team improves. Briere for Savard and a 3rd/2nd does not really do that.

Apples for apples trades rarely work, chiefly because it is not a simple matter to come up with a swap that measurably improves each side when the centerpieces are similar player types.

What I gather Buffalo really needs is a trade for a bruiser, a Denis Gauthier, for example, though I am not certain what assets from the farm or the forward corps would fit the bill.


Anybody else think this poster should be banned from his constant insistence on cold hard logic and informed reasoning? :D

I agree with all of your points.

And, that puts Takeo21's earlier post in perspect. Buffalo has no reason to trade Briere and an apples-to-apples deal would make no sense.

I would argue, btw, that Briere has a checkered past too. Essentially, he has had two strong years in the NHL after looking like a bust for sometime. I personally believe that Briere has turned the corner and will be a productive NHL player for years to come, but he still has to put together three or four seasons in a row before we can be completely confident.

SabresRule 05-10-2004 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Anybody else think this poster should be banned from his constant insistence on cold hard logic and informed reasoning? :D

I agree with all of your points.

And, that puts Takeo21's earlier post in perspect. Buffalo has no reason to trade Briere and an apples-to-apples deal would make no sense.

I would argue, btw, that Briere has a checkered past too. Essentially, he has had two strong years in the NHL after looking like a bust for sometime. I personally believe that Briere has turned the corner and will be a productive NHL player for years to come, but he still has to put together three or four seasons in a row before we can be completely confident.

i agree.

put this in perspective. Briere is our leading scorer, one of our most successful players, no.1 center. his sparked Hecht into one of our best players, his got chemistry with dumont, hecht. his not going to move.

Takeo 05-10-2004 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
And, that puts Takeo21's earlier post in perspect. Buffalo has no reason to trade Briere and an apples-to-apples deal would make no sense.

I stated that Regier wouldn't do it. It's totally hypothetical assuming someone in Atlanta actually buys into this elusive chemistry thing.

Vlad The Impaler 05-10-2004 02:18 PM

I wouldn't trade Savard straight up for Briere, much less add a 3rd rounder to Savard to get the guy.

The Thrashers would be better off looking at other options. One that I suspect Don Waddell will check out is Viktor Kozlov, who may become a free agent because of his insanely dumb salary and his inconsistent play.

If he is let go by the Devils, as many suspect, I think the Thrashers will give it a shot. He can play wing or center and is a good playmaker. He's the kind of player the Thrashers usually take a chance on.

Safir* 05-10-2004 02:26 PM

Heatley makes Briere a good scorer and did the same with Savard, that's what makes him so special. Kozlov got back to his scoring of his old Red Wings days thanks to Dany, too.

I don't want another smallish top line center.

Porn* 05-10-2004 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame_Star_Devil
Briere is a better player than Savard, and it's not really close.

Indeed!!!

what about stefan, 1st, mid level prospect for briere?

Takeo 05-10-2004 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I wouldn't trade Savard straight up for Briere

Yes you would.

SabresRule 05-10-2004 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porn*
Indeed!!!

what about stefan, 1st, mid level prospect for briere?

were's your 1st this season?

hrmmm. possibly. Drury or Roy could take tope line. Connelly could even be given the shot to work with Satan once his conditioned. but im not sue

anyone else? i like that deal.

Safir* 05-10-2004 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresRule
were's your 1st this season?

hrmmm. possibly. Drury or Roy could take tope line. Connelly could even be given the shot to work with Satan once his conditioned. but im not sue

anyone else? i like that deal.

Yeah, because Porn* is a Leafs and no idea, how valueable Stefan is to the Thrashers.

Stefan + our 1st might land Brewer plus sth. in Atlanta.

Darth Milbury 05-10-2004 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeo21
Yes you would.


Wow. What an intellectually informed response.

Vlad happens to disagree with you about the relative values of the players. Deal with it.

Here is Savard's stats:

1993-94 Oshawa Generals OHL 61 18 39 57 24 5 4 3 7 8
1994-95 Oshawa Generals OHL 66 43 96 139 78 7 5 6 11 8
1995-96 Oshawa Generals OHL 47 28 59 87 77 5 4 5 9 6
1996-97 Oshawa Generals OHL 64 43 87 130 94 18 13 24 37 20
1997-98 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 58 21 53 74 66 15 8 19 27 24
1997-98 New-York Rangers NHL 28 1 5 6 4 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 New-York Rangers NHL 70 9 36 45 38 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 9 3 10 13 16 7 1 12 13 16
1999-00 Calgary Flames NHL 78 22 31 53 56 -- -- -- -- --
2000-01 Calgary Flames NHL 77 23 42 65 46 -- -- -- -- --
2001-02 Calgary Flames NHL 56 14 19 33 48 -- -- -- -- --
2002-03 Calgary Flames NHL 10 1 2 3 8 -- -- -- -- --
2002-03 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 57 16 31 47 77 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 45 19 33 52 85


Briere's:

1994-95 Drummondville Voltigeurs QMJHL 72 51 72 123 54 4 2 3 5 2
1995-96 Drummondville Voltigeurs QMJHL 67 67 96 163 84
1996-97 Drummondville Voltigeurs QMJHL 59 52 78 130 86
1997-98 Springfield Falcons AHL 68 36 56 92 42 4 1 2 3 4
1997-98 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 5 1 0 1 2 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 64 8 14 22 30 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Springfield Falcons AHL 13 2 6 8 20 3 0 1 1 2
1998-99 Las-Vegas Thunder IHL 1 1 1 2 0 -- -- -- -- --
1999-00 Springfield Falcons AHL 58 29 42 71 56 -- -- -- -- --
1999-00 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 13 1 1 2 0 1 0 0 0 0
2000-01 Springfield Falcons AHL 30 21 25 46 30 -- -- -- -- --
2000-01 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 30 11 4 15 12 -- -- -- -- --
2001-02 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 78 32 28 60 52 5 2 1 3 2
2002-03 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 68 17 29 46 50 -- -- -- -- --
2002-03 Buffalo Sabres NHL 14 7 5 12 12 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82 28 37 65 70


The upshot is that Savard had a far superior PPG to Briere last season, and has proven slightly more than Briere over the long term. And, he is a hell of a lot tought and more fiesty than Briere.

I would take Briere over Savard personally. But, Vlad's perspective has reasonable statistical support and his view is (as always) highly informed and balanced.


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