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dulzhok 05-10-2004 02:35 AM

Fantasy Armchair GM
 
We I’ve been wasting a lot of time in spare time coming up with this. Since I was thinking about it, I figure I just put it in writing and put it behind me. In the fantasy situation that I was GM of the Predators, this is what I’d be doing in the offseason…

----------------------------------------------------
RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS:
This is a sticky situation. We will have to address those RFAs who have arbitration rights at the start or middle of the off-season:

Tomas Vokoun: 3 yrs, 6.3 million… $1 million bonus for being in top 5 SV% or top 5 GAA... Vokoun’s numbers weren’t all that great this year, so I don’t think he’ll have the upper hand in arbitration… He had a lot of wins, but the case could be made that’s because he started so many games compared to other #1 goalies around the league.

Steve Sullivan: 3yrs, 7.5million… $1 million bonus for 30 goals or 75 points.

Mark Eaton: 3yrs, 3.3 million… 500K bonus for leading Nashville defenseman in +/-… I don’t think Eaton will command a lot in an arbitration hearing, defensive dmen usually don’t.

Jere Karalathi: I would at least look into the possibilities of getting this guy back here… I think he was unjustly booted out of the NHL (for drinking alcohol?)… Unlikely, but I’d at least look into it.
--

Then we have the RFAs who don’t have arbitration rights. We really need to play hardball with these guys. It may be an excellent opportunity to lock them up long-term at a reasonable rate. If I was Poile, I’d say to their agent, “This is what I’ll offer you before the CBA is signed, and this is what I’ll offer you after.” In reality, nobody really knows what the salary structure is going to look like post-CBA so it maybe in their best interest to sign a reasonable deal pre-CBA.

Marek Zidlicky: 3 yrs, 4.5 million (pre-CBA), 1 yr, 900K (post-CBA).

Scott Hartnell: 3 yrs, 4.5 million offer (pre-CBA), 1 yr qualifying offer post-CBA. (500K bonus for 25 goal or 60 points)

Martin Erat: 3 yrs, 4.0 million offer (pre-CBA), 1 yr 900K offer post-CBA (500K bonus for 25 goals or 60 points)
-------------------------------------

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS

Andreas Johansson: 1 yr, 900K
Notes: While he did disappear in the playoffs, he was extremely valuable and versatile in the regular season… He can play any position and he can play effectively in a scoring line role or a checking role… I would make the offer early in the off-season... He’s not going to get paid unless he plays.

Curtis Brown: 2yrs, 2.5 million
Notes: I see him as Greg Johnson’s replacement… He’s fast and gritty… While he hasn’t scored much in the past couple of years, he does have two 20 goals seasons in the last 5 years... Would be an ideal checking line center for us, with the possibility of moving up to a scoring line.

Chris Gratton: 1 yr, 1 million + team option for a 2nd year
Notes: This would be my restoration project… I think this guy has the potential to bust out into a 20-30 goal scorer in the right situation (he did score 30 goals in ’96)… If not, he is valuable as a big shut-down center.

John Klemm: 1 yr, 1.7 million
Notes: Gives us a solid veteran defensive defenseman with a somewhat of a physical presence… Other d-man possibilities: Ken Klee, Weinrich… Long-shots: Zhitnik, Scheinder
----------------------------------------------------
TRADES

Nashville: Martin Havlat
Ottawa: Scott Hartnell

Notes: Gives us a dynamic scoring threat for years to come… Potentially a 40-goal guy next year… It would suck to lose Hartnell, but my feeling is it would be worth it.
--

Nashville: Henrik Zetterberg
Detroit: David Legwand and Kevin Klein or Andrew Hutchison

Notes: Another dynamic offensive player… The center we need—excellent offensive skills with solid defensive skills... Great puck control.
--

Nashville: Denis Gauthier
Calgary: Denis Arkhipov

Notes: Both of these guys have fallen down their teams’ depth chart… Both still have some untapped potential in them… Arkhipov has the potential to be a big offensive threat…Gaither has the potential to be a big physical presence, he just needs to find some defensive consistency.
----------------------------------------------

DULZHOK’S FANTASY ROSTER FOR NEXT YEAR:

Sullivan-Zetterberg-Walker
Erat-Gamache/Gratton-Havlat
Johansson-Brown-Hall
Upshall/Pivko-Gratton/Gamache-Orszagh
*Stevenson, McKenzie

Timonen-Klemm
Eaton-Gauither
Hamhuis-Zidlicky
*Hnidy, Mukhachev

Vokoun-Mason

golfmade 05-10-2004 02:41 AM

Karalahti?? I hope you're kidding, I thought it was drugs.. he was even using when he was with the Kings I think.

I would love to see Klee on this team, but I don't see the Leafs letting him go. Weinrich I wouldn't mind having, if we could get him for cheap.

sparkle twin 05-10-2004 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok
TRADES

Nashville: Martin Havlat
Ottawa: Scott Hartnell

Notes: Gives us a dynamic scoring threat for years to come… Potentially a 40-goal guy next year… It would suck to lose Hartnell, but my feeling is it would be worth it.
--

I say no. I like Havlat, but Hartnell is too valuable to us. He's one of the only players who actually goes to the net. He's tough, mean, and can score. I want to keep him in Smashville.
Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok
Nashville: Henrik Zetterberg
Detroit: David Legwand and Kevin Klein or Andrew Hutchison

Notes: Another dynamic offensive player… The center we need—excellent offensive skills with solid defensive skills... Great puck control.
--

God you are determined to get rid of Legwand. But I don't think Detroit lets Zetterberg go.

dulzhok 05-10-2004 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfmade
Karalahti?? I hope you're kidding, I thought it was drugs.. he was even using when he was with the Kings I think.

Nope, he has not tested positive for drugs since being in America.

It was alcohol. Part of the terms of him coming to America and the NHL was that he could not consume alcohol at all. Before he even stepped foot in America, he was in the first stage of the substance abuse program. Then he got caught partying with the Kings and was late for pratice. Second stage. The he tested positive for alcohol in Nashville in the offseason after spending 6 weeks in a rehabilitation clinic. Third stage.

Considering that 95%+ of NHL players go out drinking, I think he got treated unfairly.

Like I said, it's unlikely, but I'd atleast look into it.

DontCallPlayersStuds 05-10-2004 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok
Nope, he has not tested positive for drugs since being in America.

It was alcohol. Part of the terms of him coming to America and the NHL was that he could not consume alcohol at all. Before he even stepped foot in America, he was in the first stage of the substance abuse program. Then he got caught partying with the Kings and was late for pratice. Second stage. The he tested positive for alcohol in Nashville in the offseason after spending 6 weeks in a rehabilitation clinic. Third stage.

Considering that 95%+ of NHL players go out drinking, I think he got treated unfairly.

Like I said, it's unlikely, but I'd atleast look into it.

exactly right. karalahti is considered one of the top defenders in finland, and is excellent at both ends. i know he's the running joke, but part of that is due to the fact that he's what we got for cliff ronning. anyone coming to town on those terms is bound to be unpopular. theo fleury was in the same program...but was allowed to drink. same for belfour. why should karalahti be different? because he doesn't have the name recognition. he's on finland's national team and is wildly popular in the FEL. I do agree with spank on not trading hartnell for havlat, though.

dulzhok 05-10-2004 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spank303
I say no. I like Havlat, but Hartnell is too valuable to us. He's one of the only players who actually goes to the net. He's tough, mean, and can score. I want to keep him in Smashville.

God you are determined to get rid of Legwand. But I don't think Detroit lets Zetterberg go.

RE: Havlat/Hartnell

This has been discussed before, so I won't dive into. Some people really like it, some people don't. It's a divided issues. In reality, it's probably a non-issue. But in my fantasy world, I'm trading Hartnell for Havlat. I'd hate to lose Hartnell, but Havlat is rare talent with spunk. I think he and Erat would be dynamite together for years and years.

Re: Zetterberg/Lewgand

I'm sure Detroit would be hesitant to give up Zetterberg, but if there is a time, it's now. He has been pretty much non-existent in his first two post-seasons, and Detroit is looking to change their post-season fortunes. Still, it would take a lot. They might be tempted by Legwand becuase of his *potential* and the fact that he is a Detroit native. Same with Hutchison. Heck, I'd even offer Legwand+Hutch+Klein. I think Zetterberg is waiting for the opportunity to bust into a 30g,75p center.

hillbilly 05-10-2004 09:09 AM

I would be very bitter about a hartnell for havlat deal, but I could except it though I think it would be a huge mistake. you trade a guy who is a huge team guy and possible 60 or 70 point guy for another guy thats maybe a 90 point guy with none of the intangibles hartnell has.

Joe T Choker 05-10-2004 09:24 AM

Not a chance in hell would I want Havlat on my team, he's a POS, who has no respect for the game, would rather use his stick than his body to make a play on an opponent and nor does he stand up for his teammates...ie Hartnell standing up for Hamhuis when he got crushed by Keane

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...ghlight=Havlat

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...ghlight=Havlat

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...ghlight=Havlat

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...ghlight=Havlat

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...ghlight=Havlat

triggrman 05-10-2004 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok
We I’ve been wasting a lot of time in spare time coming up with this. Since I was thinking about it, I figure I just put it in writing and put it behind me. In the fantasy situation that I was GM of the Predators, this is what I’d be doing in the offseason…

----------------------------------------------------
RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS:
This is a sticky situation. We will have to address those RFAs who have arbitration rights at the start or middle of the off-season:

Tomas Vokoun: 3 yrs, 6.3 million… $1 million bonus for being in top 5 SV% or top 5 GAA... Vokoun’s numbers weren’t all that great this year, so I don’t think he’ll have the upper hand in arbitration… He had a lot of wins, but the case could be made that’s because he started so many games compared to other #1 goalies around the league.

Steve Sullivan: 3yrs, 7.5million… $1 million bonus for 30 goals or 75 points.

Mark Eaton: 3yrs, 3.3 million… 500K bonus for leading Nashville defenseman in +/-… I don’t think Eaton will command a lot in an arbitration hearing, defensive dmen usually don’t.

Jere Karalathi: I would at least look into the possibilities of getting this guy back here… I think he was unjustly booted out of the NHL (for drinking alcohol?)… Unlikely, but I’d at least look into it.
--

Then we have the RFAs who don’t have arbitration rights. We really need to play hardball with these guys. It may be an excellent opportunity to lock them up long-term at a reasonable rate. If I was Poile, I’d say to their agent, “This is what I’ll offer you before the CBA is signed, and this is what I’ll offer you after.” In reality, nobody really knows what the salary structure is going to look like post-CBA so it maybe in their best interest to sign a reasonable deal pre-CBA.

Marek Zidlicky: 3 yrs, 4.5 million (pre-CBA), 1 yr, 900K (post-CBA).

Scott Hartnell: 3 yrs, 4.5 million offer (pre-CBA), 1 yr qualifying offer post-CBA. (500K bonus for 25 goal or 60 points)

Martin Erat: 3 yrs, 4.0 million offer (pre-CBA), 1 yr 900K offer post-CBA (500K bonus for 25 goals or 60 points)
-------------------------------------

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS

Andreas Johansson: 1 yr, 900K
Notes: While he did disappear in the playoffs, he was extremely valuable and versatile in the regular season… He can play any position and he can play effectively in a scoring line role or a checking role… I would make the offer early in the off-season... He’s not going to get paid unless he plays.

Curtis Brown: 2yrs, 2.5 million
Notes: I see him as Greg Johnson’s replacement… He’s fast and gritty… While he hasn’t scored much in the past couple of years, he does have two 20 goals seasons in the last 5 years... Would be an ideal checking line center for us, with the possibility of moving up to a scoring line.

Chris Gratton: 1 yr, 1 million + team option for a 2nd year
Notes: This would be my restoration project… I think this guy has the potential to bust out into a 20-30 goal scorer in the right situation (he did score 30 goals in ’96)… If not, he is valuable as a big shut-down center.

John Klemm: 1 yr, 1.7 million
Notes: Gives us a solid veteran defensive defenseman with a somewhat of a physical presence… Other d-man possibilities: Ken Klee, Weinrich… Long-shots: Zhitnik, Scheinder
----------------------------------------------------
TRADES

Nashville: Martin Havlat
Ottawa: Scott Hartnell

Notes: Gives us a dynamic scoring threat for years to come… Potentially a 40-goal guy next year… It would suck to lose Hartnell, but my feeling is it would be worth it.
--

Nashville: Henrik Zetterberg
Detroit: David Legwand and Kevin Klein or Andrew Hutchison

Notes: Another dynamic offensive player… The center we need—excellent offensive skills with solid defensive skills... Great puck control.
--

Nashville: Denis Gauthier
Calgary: Denis Arkhipov

Notes: Both of these guys have fallen down their teams’ depth chart… Both still have some untapped potential in them… Arkhipov has the potential to be a big offensive threat…Gaither has the potential to be a big physical presence, he just needs to find some defensive consistency.
----------------------------------------------

DULZHOK’S FANTASY ROSTER FOR NEXT YEAR:

Sullivan-Zetterberg-Walker
Erat-Gamache/Gratton-Havlat
Johansson-Brown-Hall
Upshall/Pivko-Gratton/Gamache-Orszagh
*Stevenson, McKenzie

Timonen-Klemm
Eaton-Gauither
Hamhuis-Zidlicky
*Hnidy, Mukhachev

Vokoun-Mason

We should also trade Walker and Hall for some other Euros, yes, let's just see how soft we can get.

We need more size and attitude not less. I'd take a hard workering physical team over a soft high scoring team any day of the week.

How many centers have to struggle offensively under Trotz before you understand the system does hamper their scoring?

We need more size on the blueline or for some of our guys to make Eaton like changes this summer and we need more size on the wings. I say upgrade Orszagh and Greg Johnson with 215 pounders with some attitude and I'll be happy.

dulzhok 05-10-2004 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
We should also trade Walker and Hall for some other Euros, yes, let's just see how soft we can get.

We need more size and attitude not less. I'd take a hard workering physical team over a soft high scoring team any day of the week.

How many centers have to struggle offensively under Trotz before you understand the system does hamper their scoring?

We need more size on the blueline or for some of our guys to make Eaton like changes this summer and we need more size on the wings. I say upgrade Orszagh and Greg Johnson with 215 pounders with some attitude and I'll be happy.

I guess you’re still living with the bias that all Europeans are soft and ineffective in the NHL while all North Americans are physical beasts that knock people around left and right.

I guess you’re reasoning is that David Legwand is a physical beast that doesn’t take any prisoners, meanwhile Martin Havlat is a soft little Euro who gets knocked off the puck easily and knocked around like a rag doll.

When you’re ready, you’re welcome to come to the new NHL where Europeans are making just as much of an impact as North Americans.

I know losing Hartnell is blow to our so-called “physical” aspect. Honestly, while he does posses a certain physical presence, I think that presence is over-rated. He doesn’t hit with authority like say a Dallas Drake or a Shane Doan. His hits are often off-balance and ill-timed. In time, I think he will grow into his physical willingness, but that time has not come yet.

Physical-wise, my fantasy roster is an upgrade over our current one. Out: York, Legwand, Bombardir, Zholtok, Arkhipov, Johnson (all non-existent physically). In: Gaither, Klemm, Havlat (a lot of fight), Gratton, Upshall, Brown (a lot of fight). Losing Hartnell would be a blow, but get a young gritty 30-40 goal scorer would compensate that in my view. Look at games 5 and 6 vs Detroit, we couldn’t generate offensive pressure for crap. Havlat and Zetterberg would go along way to brining this team a true offensive threat.

I am not at all concerned with if a person is 6-4 250. It’s about the fight you’ve got within you that will bring you success in the playoffs. Guys like Walker, Hall, Upshall, Tootoo, Erat, Havlat, Orszagh, Sullivan, Brown, etc have a lot of fight.

As for centers, I do agree to a certain extent that their offense might be hampered in our system (not on the powerplay, though). But that doesn’t excuse them (Legwand, Arkhipov) from giving the puck away constantly, getting knocked around constantly, never driving to the net, displaying very little offensive creativity, and overall, just not giving their best effort. Maybe you can realize that we just have never had a truely good center. The closest thing was Cliff Ronning, and he did fine offensively as a center. He spent some time at wing, but most of it was at center where he consistently generated offense. 3 seasons of 60+ points.

WuRtZLeSs 05-11-2004 01:19 AM

While certain things look nice, I don't think it's all that much of an improvement for several reasons.. there is a lack of playoff physicality (Sullivan, Zetterberg, Walker (let's be honest), Erat, Gamache, Havlat and Johansson [I'll give Brown the benefit of the doubt] are by no means going to put the fear of god in the Pred's playoff opponents and there's definitely a lack of depth at center (Zetterberg isn't a first line center, Brown, Gratton and Gamache are fringe 3rd/4th liners).

As for your trades: let me preface this by saying that if I could get Zetterberg for Legwand, I probably wouldn't trade Hartnell for Havlat. While an excess of offensive talent is nice (see Ottawa) - it isn't always what it's cracked up to be. But with that said, I feel Zetterberg would be a real nice return for Legwand. Gauthier for Arkhipov .. lateral movement, I don't see how Arkhipov would benefit Calgary - but it's a possibility Pred-wise.

Your UFA signings: I don't think Brown or Gratton would go for what you've offered up (2/2.5mill and 1/1mill respectively) - but moot point, who knows what'll happen post-CBA - but chances are they'll get around the same they're getting now. Brown has fit in well with San Jose and Gratton however may be let go due to the Avalanche payroll (but at the same token, he was a big part of the Morris trade - so I can't see them just letting him drop for nothing). Like I said, I could see them getting around the same they're getting now .. 1.6mill and 2.2mill respectively. I wouldn't touch Klemm with a ten foot pole, but I'll hold your opinion above mine - you most likely have seen him much more then I have.

The in/out you listed above looks a little skewed, I feel this one's a bit more accurate:

Out:
(C) Legwand
(C) Zholtok
(C) Arkhipov
(C) Johnson
(LW) Hartnell
(D) Bombardir
(D) York

In:
(C) Gratton
(RW) Havlat
(LW) Zetterberg
(D) Gauthier
(D) Klemm

You say the Preds couldn't generate offensive pressure (I certainly agree) and replace one of the best playoff offense-generators (Hartnell) with two borderline 3rd/4th centers (Brown, Gratton), a gritty and very offensively talented winger (Havlat), a player who has proven very little in the playoffs (Zetterberg), a fringe physical defenseman (Gauthier - baring a turn around, a 5th-6th defenseman) and a pylon (Klemm - although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, I haven't seen him play lately.. but I'll say at best he's a 5th, 6th defenseman).

So yeah, you do in essence get rid of the softer players, but you replace them with fringe physical players and more fluff. There's no guarantee Zetterberg will be able to produce in the playoffs (he hasn't thus far) - he didn't look all that good in Detroit's playoff games. Havlat I'm pretty confident would adapt to the western game and excel in the playoffs - but there's a possibility even his game isn't suited for the playoffs. Johnson played better then Walker in the playoffs (being the center between Hartnell and Hall without-a-doubt helped), Bombardir was solid - Hartnell was one of the Pred's best forwards and Zholtok (seeing limited time) was impressive. And York, well York has always been borderline mediocre.

At the very least, I consider all these moves lateral .. and to drastically change the roster for the amount of uncertainty you propose - doesn't really make sense to me. But at the very least, at least there's a goal now - the Preds are building for playoff success.

Enoch 05-11-2004 02:22 AM

Gratton is an RFA, I'll give my opinions later. I'm a little busy with finals right now :/

dulzhok 05-11-2004 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuRtZLeSs
While certain things look nice, I don't think it's all that much of an improvement for several reasons.. there is a lack of playoff physicality (Sullivan, Zetterberg, Walker (let's be honest), Erat, Gamache, Havlat and Johansson [I'll give Brown the benefit of the doubt] are by no means going to put the fear of god in the Pred's playoff opponents and there's definitely a lack of depth at center (Zetterberg isn't a first line center, Brown, Gratton and Gamache are fringe 3rd/4th liners).

As for your trades: let me preface this by saying that if I could get Zetterberg for Legwand, I probably wouldn't trade Hartnell for Havlat. While an excess of offensive talent is nice (see Ottawa) - it isn't always what it's cracked up to be. But with that said, I feel Zetterberg would be a real nice return for Legwand. Gauthier for Arkhipov .. lateral movement, I don't see how Arkhipov would benefit Calgary - but it's a possibility Pred-wise.

Your UFA signings: I don't think Brown or Gratton would go for what you've offered up (2/2.5mill and 1/1mill respectively) - but moot point, who knows what'll happen post-CBA - but chances are they'll get around the same they're getting now. Brown has fit in well with San Jose and Gratton however may be let go due to the Avalanche payroll (but at the same token, he was a big part of the Morris trade - so I can't see them just letting him drop for nothing). Like I said, I could see them getting around the same they're getting now .. 1.6mill and 2.2mill respectively. I wouldn't touch Klemm with a ten foot pole, but I'll hold your opinion above mine - you most likely have seen him much more then I have.

The in/out you listed above looks a little skewed, I feel this one's a bit more accurate:

Out:
(C) Legwand
(C) Zholtok
(C) Arkhipov
(C) Johnson
(LW) Hartnell
(D) Bombardir
(D) York

In:
(C) Gratton
(RW) Havlat
(LW) Zetterberg
(D) Gauthier
(D) Klemm

You say the Preds couldn't generate offensive pressure (I certainly agree) and replace one of the best playoff offense-generators (Hartnell) with two borderline 3rd/4th centers (Brown, Gratton), a gritty and very offensively talented winger (Havlat), a player who has proven very little in the playoffs (Zetterberg), a fringe physical defenseman (Gauthier - baring a turn around, a 5th-6th defenseman) and a pylon (Klemm - although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, I haven't seen him play lately.. but I'll say at best he's a 5th, 6th defenseman).

So yeah, you do in essence get rid of the softer players, but you replace them with fringe physical players and more fluff. There's no guarantee Zetterberg will be able to produce in the playoffs (he hasn't thus far) - he didn't look all that good in Detroit's playoff games. Havlat I'm pretty confident would adapt to the western game and excel in the playoffs - but there's a possibility even his game isn't suited for the playoffs. Johnson played better then Walker in the playoffs (being the center between Hartnell and Hall without-a-doubt helped), Bombardir was solid - Hartnell was one of the Pred's best forwards and Zholtok (seeing limited time) was impressive. And York, well York has always been borderline mediocre.

At the very least, I consider all these moves lateral .. and to drastically change the roster for the amount of uncertainty you propose - doesn't really make sense to me. But at the very least, at least there's a goal now - the Preds are building for playoff success.

Some good points, but a couple of things...

#1: "So yeah, you do in essence get rid of the softer players, but you replace them with fringe physical players and more fluff."
I CERTAINLY don't consider Havlat, Zetterberg, Brown, and Klemm fluff.


#2: I think it's a mistake to judge our player's playoff abilities on 6 games.

What happened: Sullivan and Walker only produced one goal.
What I inferred: I did not infer that they aren't capable of producing in the playoffs. I did infer that they can not carry the offense in the playoffs. They were zeroed in on, big time. They played against Lidstrom and Scheinder consistently. They entire Red Wing team was directly told to "abuse them." They were excellent on the PK, though.

Sullivan and Walker are both all-heart players... That's what succeeds in the playoffs. Unfortunatley, I don't think they can carry the offense in the playoffs... enter Zetterberg and Havlat for offensive relief.

I took playoff abilities into consideration. I'm all about playing with fire, grit, and heart, and I think Sullivan, Walker, Havlat, Erat, Brown, Upshall, Hall, Gratton, Orszagh, etc play with a lot of attitude, emotion, and hardwork... what suceeds in the playoffs. I'd certainly hate to lose Hartnell in the playoffs, but imo, the offensive magic of Havlat combined with grittiness would compensate that.

RE: Zetterberg. Again, I think it's a mistake to say he's not a playoff performer just because he hasn't produced big numbers in first two post-seasons in North America. #1) He's young. #2) The NHL playoffs are like nothing he's expirenced playing in Sweden. This guys is young, very offensively gifted, defensively apt, and a non-floater. It'd be a steal if we could get him.

#2 point: Our roster isn't going to be "perfect" next year.

There's no way we're going to have a Thornton-type center, an Inginla-type #1 winger, a Scott Stevens-type defenseman added to a roster by next season. It's not going to be anywhere near "ideal."

You think my cetners would be taking a step back, I certainly don't see it that way. Zetterberg>Legwand. Brown>Johnson. Gamache/Johansson>Arkhipov. Gratton?Zholtok.

#3 point: In reality, it's going to be another uphill battle to the playoffs.

Next year isn't going to be our year to win the Stanley Cup. In fact, I'm very concerned that we're going to have big trouble making the playoffs. Teams like Anaheim, Minnesota, Edmonton, a healthy LA will be fully expected to make a run at the playoffs. Columbus and Chicago have the potential to have a good season. I do think change is needed in order for us to compete, not only in the regular season battle, but also in the post-season battle.

We need more players that can create offense, and I don't think we can fix that internally at the moment. We need defensive help, and again, there doesn't appear to be anybody on the horizon for the coming year. I really get a bad feeling about next year if we stand pat. We went all-out this year to make the playoffs. If we let up at all next year (or significant injruies hit), we'll be back picking at the 6th spot. Not to mention that teams like Anaheim, LA, Edmonton, Chicago, Columbus look to improve next year.

triggrman 05-11-2004 02:36 AM

I don't think Zetterberg is better than Legwand and you're not going to convince me that he is so don't try, we could get into the talented wingers and systems arguement but lets not even go there.

Havlat career high in games played was 73 his first season, if it's not his hammy it's his groin.

Zetterberg's was outplayed by Legwand in the playoffs and has never put up great numbers.

Hartnell hits harder than anyone you're talking of bringing in, and more often. Sometimes I wonder what game you're watching.

Anyway, I'm off to the land of giant mice and cheap golf.

dulzhok 05-11-2004 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
I don't think Zetterberg is better than Legwand and you're not going to convince me that he is so don't try, we could get into the talented wingers and systems arguement but lets not even go there.

Havlat career high in games played was 73 his first season, if it's not his hammy it's his groin.

Zetterberg's was outplayed by Legwand in the playoffs and has never put up great numbers.

Hartnell hits harder than anyone you're talking of bringing in, and more often. Sometimes I wonder what game you're watching.

Legwand was non-existent in the playoffs, minus Hatcher assisting on the breakaway goal. Actually he was existent... he was very noticably getting thrown around like a rag-doll.

I agree Zetterberg didn't stand out, but I would take him over Legwand in a heartbeat... anywhere, anytime.

Hartnell is not a fierce hitter, at the moment. In time I think he will be. He certainly has the willingness to play physically. But he does not connect with his hits like a Scott Mellanby or Martin Lapointe or Brendan Morrow. In fact, he often gets the worst of his hits and falls down. Again, I'm not proposing to dump Hartnell because he's sucks... He's my second favorite Pred behind Erat. What I am dreaming about is getting a stud young winger in Havlat, whose abilities are not matched by anyone on our team.

dulzhok 05-11-2004 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch
Gratton is an RFA, I'll give my opinions later. I'm a little busy with finals right now :/

True, but there is a 99% chance that Colorado won't qualify him at that price.

sparkle twin 05-11-2004 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok
Legwand was non-existent in the playoffs, minus Hatcher assisting on the breakaway goal. Actually he was existent... he was very noticably getting thrown around like a rag-doll.

Actually he was existent. He played some damn good defense. Almost better than some of our actual defensemen. But I guess because he didn't score 10 goals it looks like he was a failure.

The people that sit around me, that I complained about who kept yelling at Legwand for 60 straight minutes, were actually praising him during the playoffs. He must have been doing something good because they never said anything good about him all season. :dunno:

triggrman 05-15-2004 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok
Legwand was non-existent in the playoffs, minus Hatcher assisting on the breakaway goal. Actually he was existent... he was very noticably getting thrown around like a rag-doll.

I agree Zetterberg didn't stand out, but I would take him over Legwand in a heartbeat... anywhere, anytime.

Hartnell is not a fierce hitter, at the moment. In time I think he will be. He certainly has the willingness to play physically. But he does not connect with his hits like a Scott Mellanby or Martin Lapointe or Brendan Morrow. In fact, he often gets the worst of his hits and falls down. Again, I'm not proposing to dump Hartnell because he's sucks... He's my second favorite Pred behind Erat. What I am dreaming about is getting a stud young winger in Havlat, whose abilities are not matched by anyone on our team.

Sometimes I wonder what games you're watching.

dulzhok 05-16-2004 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
Sometimes I wonder what games you're watching.

Sometimes I wonder what the nature of your relationship is with Legwand.

Do you honestly think that Hartnell is a one of the league's firecest hitters right now? His physically willingness is very high. But the effects of his physical willingness are still under construction. He needs more raw strength to him and he needs to time his hits better. Right now, he mainly just throws himself upon the opposing players when he's trying to make a hit. He certainly slows them down and can be a pain in the @ss, but he doesn't envoke fear in the opposition through his physically play, yet.

triggrman 05-16-2004 09:26 AM

Last season Al Mac was quoted after the game that Hartnell was one of the toughest young guys in the league, that he knew going in Hartnell would be throwing his body the entire game and was relentless in front of the net.


Have you ever played hockey?

triggrman 05-16-2004 09:44 AM

Would any of you trade Hartnell for Zetterberg? We do need more centers, could Zetterberg play as a top center in our system? Legwand seems to be a good second line center, if Arkhipov does his off season deal he might be decent three or a good four. Zetterberg seems to have good offensive tools but he's playing in a system with far more offensive freedom than ours and he plays with better wingers too?

Enoch 05-16-2004 04:10 PM

I think one of our offensive dmen should be moved (and yes I'm talking about one of the top two, Zidlicky or Timmonen). If we could net a young, strong, tough dman......say a Robyn Regher maybe? I'd be all over it.

Basher 05-16-2004 05:41 PM

We could have the only Inuk and Brasillian players in the game....it'd be all about that diversity. But I like the double threat PP, look at what happened in the playoffs w/o Zids.

Enoch 05-16-2004 05:49 PM

True, yet at the same time, look what happened to us in front of the net all season long :/. Its a dilemma, I guess.....

DontCallPlayersStuds 05-16-2004 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basher
We could have the only Inuk and Brasillian players in the game....it'd be all about that diversity. But I like the double threat PP, look at what happened in the playoffs w/o Zids.


Regehr isn't ACTUALLY brasilian, though. his parents are christian missionaries.


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