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Ducksgo 05-18-2010 09:11 PM

Fluttering puck when performing the wrist shot
 
Not to sure if this has been coverered already, I'm sure it has but performing a search with the words "flutter" and "wristshot" brought back no results.

So here it goes, I am wondering what is causing the effect of the puck to flutter when im performing my wrist shot and my snap shot.

Am I not rolling my wrists properly? transfer of weight? losing balance? what exactly CAUSES the puck to flutter when in motion of shooting.

If I can come down to mechanics and figure out what is exactly causing the puck to flutter, would be great.

Once again, Thanks all for your input

Scotty94 05-18-2010 09:14 PM

It's hard to say without seeing your form, but you likely need a combination of mainly:

- better "spinning" of the puck as it goes from the heel to toe area of the stick.

AND

- a more precise/harder snap at the right moment

Both of these combined not only give the puck a flatter spin (which truly isn't of a ton of importance), but rather increased forward power. And keep practicing. Get that muscle memory down for shooting and you'll be ripping them off before you know it.

Jerry Lundegaard 05-18-2010 09:38 PM

start with the puck towards the heel of the stick and follow through


also, what curve do you have?

Ducksgo 05-18-2010 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty94 (Post 25894021)
It's hard to say without seeing your form, but you likely need a combination of mainly:

- better "spinning" of the puck as it goes from the heel to toe area of the stick.

AND

- a more precise/harder snap at the right moment

Both of these combined not only give the puck a flatter spin (which truly isn't of a ton of importance), but rather increased forward power. And keep practicing. Get that muscle memory down for shooting and you'll be ripping them off before you know it.

Thanks for the reply, but what exactly is muscle memory. And why isn't the flatter spin important? Do not take this as an insult, but a mere of trying to gather as much info to help me improve. Does the speed of your shot slow down when it is fluttering as opposed to spinning like a frisbee? or is it quite the opposite?

Tikkanen 05-18-2010 09:42 PM

Stick is too long. First thing I check when I see a teammate with a buttefly wrist shot is the length of their stick. I can't tell you how many players I run into that use sticks that are just way too long for them and it shows with their weak wrist shots. Then they'll tell me that they play defense so they need a longer stick. Dude, you're not Chris Pronger, cut your stick down.

budster 05-18-2010 10:14 PM

This has been covered before:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=25564666
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=15290516

Stick To Your Guns 05-18-2010 10:28 PM

Stick length as mention above might be an obvious reason. I think it might have to do with the snap of your wrists. If it's not hard or quick it can cause it to float. Just what I think. Your wind up may be too long when you shoot as well. It's hard to say without seeing you do it.

BadHammy* 05-19-2010 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tikkanen (Post 25894745)
Stick is too long. First thing I check when I see a teammate with a buttefly wrist shot is the length of their stick. I can't tell you how many players I run into that use sticks that are just way too long for them and it shows with their weak wrist shots. Then they'll tell me that they play defense so they need a longer stick. Dude, you're not Chris Pronger, cut your stick down.

To quote Doctor Evil, "How 'bout no, Scott?" This is kind of lazy advice. The real issue is not stick length, it's the snap of the TOP wrist. If you don't pull in with the top wrist, you will see this problem. You can also encounter it by not dragging/cupping the puck. PLENTY of snipers use longer sticks currently, and they shoot just fine:D

Hockeyfan68 05-19-2010 01:28 AM

Stick length has not much to do with it, it is not the main most common thing.

Flutter comes from bad shooting mechanics, an incorrect stick blade lie, a stick flex that is way too stiff or a combo of these. Hitting too far behind the puck for a flex of the shaft so the transfer of energy is impaired and conversely hitting just the puck and not getting any flex.

I've seen plenty of guys using long sticks and had a great wristshot. I use a long stick and shoot well.

What I am saying is that if a guy is a novice chances are mechanics are the first main problem with flutterpucks.

I knew a guy named Don Dubuc here years ago who really sucked, he scored some goals though because he would take a huge windup and flutter in a 10 mph shot and the goalie would be so angry because he looked like he would have to make a huge save and got a wimpy change up!

Ever since my brothers and I say something when we play and the puck flips up from a nub in the ice and a flutter shot gets released ... we say 'That one had some dubuc in it' lol. Or 'hey, HEY! NO DUBUCKERS ALLOWED!'

Ragss 05-19-2010 01:57 AM

When I was first getting a hang of turning my wrists in a wrist shot I found that I'd sometimes open my wrists first to 'wind up' for the flick, this would cause the blade to become very open ultimately leading to a very ugly, fluttering wrist shot.

TheHMan 05-19-2010 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducksgo (Post 25894656)
Thanks for the reply, but what exactly is muscle memory. And why isn't the flatter spin important? Do not take this as an insult, but a mere of trying to gather as much info to help me improve. Does the speed of your shot slow down when it is fluttering as opposed to spinning like a frisbee? or is it quite the opposite?

To address these two points:

Muscle memory is a term that describes a physical motion that becomes natural and can be performed without a whole lot of thought. A non-hockey example might be a combination lock in highschool, you've opened it so many times that you don't even have to look at the numbers to open them. What this fellow is saying is that when you've developed a proper shooting mechanic for wrist snapping, weight transfer, and following through, shots will become second nature and your shots will not flutter as much.

The general rule of thumb for fluttering shots is that shots that they lose energy as they fly and they'll likely start dropping after traveling for a while. You can have a really hard shot that flutters, and as Hockeyfan68 said, they can be useful for fooling goalies sometimes, but generally you want a shot that spins nicely and looks like it's nice an stable as it flies. The advantages of having a shot that travels nicely is that it'll have much better range, it will maintain it's speed for longer, and you'll be more accurate with them as well. Having a fluttering shot is often the result of a poor shooting mechanic and being accurate with a poor shooting mechanic can be difficult.

I believe Scotty94 was suggesting that having a nice flat spin alone isn't the most important thing, but getting some good power and stability into the shot is what you should be looking for.

timekeep 05-19-2010 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 (Post 25898401)
Flutter comes from bad shooting mechanics, an incorrect stick blade lie, a stick flex that is way too stiff or a combo of these. Hitting too far behind the puck for a flex of the shaft so the transfer of energy is impaired and conversely hitting just the puck and not getting any flex.

This is all correct and here are a couple of other pointers.

Wrist Shot: have put you weight on your outside foot, left handed shooter = right foot. Roll the puck from heel to toe of the blade.

Snap Shot: have to put your weight on your inside foot, left handed shooter = left foot. Quick snap from the toe.

A tip a received when I was young from an older stud hockey player was to hold the stick with a strong firm grip. No limp wrists.

BadHammy* 05-19-2010 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timekeep (Post 25898781)
This is all correct and here are a couple of other pointers.

Wrist Shot: have put you weight on your outside foot, left handed shooter = right foot. Roll the puck from heel to toe of the blade.

Snap Shot: have to put your weight on your inside foot, left handed shooter = left foot. Quick snap from the toe.

A tip a received when I was young from an older stud hockey player was to hold the stick with a strong firm grip. No limp wrists.

I have to say, good advice!

Jarick 05-19-2010 09:59 AM

It's all 100% about spin on the puck.

Find a frisbee. Take it and throw it forward with your wrist completely locked. It will probably wobble and flop and drop to the ground. Now throw it snapping/flicking your wrist like normal...it will spin and sail a good distance.

Notice it will spin and sail straight without weight transfer or anything else...just flicking the wrists.

So apply this to your wrist shot...you need to get spin on the puck if you want it to fly straight and accurate.

To learn it, practice pulling the stick towards the body while shooting. Place the puck at the heel of the blade, then pull the stick towards you to roll it towards the toe. The puck will rotate. The faster you do this, the more spin you get on the puck.

Of course, this is impractical while shooting, so most people will instead open and close the blade. The puck again starts at the heel, but this time roll your wrists to cup the blade over the puck. The curve should make it so the puck is trapped at the heel. As you pull the puck across the body, roll your wrists back to open up the blade so the puck can roll down towards the toe. Finally, when releasing the shot, roll your wrists back over the puck to trap it against the blade so it will go wherever you point the stick on the follow through.

Here's a ghetto illustration:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3.../WristSnap.jpg

It's tricky to get the timing down just right, especially while you have to pull the top hand back to release the shot, but that's what practice is for!

Hockeyfan68 05-19-2010 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timekeep (Post 25898781)
This is all correct and here are a couple of other pointers.

Wrist Shot: have put you weight on your outside foot, left handed shooter = right foot. Roll the puck from heel to toe of the blade.

Snap Shot: have to put your weight on your inside foot, left handed shooter = left foot. Quick snap from the toe.

A tip a received when I was young from an older stud hockey player was to hold the stick with a strong firm grip. No limp wrists.

Yes NO limp wristed hockey allowed :laugh:

BadHammy* 05-19-2010 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 (Post 25903967)
Yes NO limp wristed hockey allowed :laugh:

You have to be firm but NOT choke it. It's something beginners have a big problem with. It can easily cause the shanks.

Tikkanen 05-19-2010 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donGjohnson (Post 25898184)
To quote Doctor Evil, "How 'bout no, Scott?" This is kind of lazy advice. The real issue is not stick length, it's the snap of the TOP wrist. If you don't pull in with the top wrist, you will see this problem. You can also encounter it by not dragging/cupping the puck. PLENTY of snipers use longer sticks currently, and they shoot just fine:D

I'm assuming the OP is not an expert hockey player or he wouldn't be asking the question. I think better questions for the OP is how long is his stick on bare feet, how long has he been playing hockey, what curve does he use and what is the flex of his stick?

Ducksgo 05-20-2010 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tikkanen (Post 25911508)
I'm assuming the OP is not an expert hockey player or he wouldn't be asking the question. I think better questions for the OP is how long is his stick on bare feet, how long has he been playing hockey, what curve does he use and what is the flex of his stick?

Stick goes above the bridge of my nose, I have been playing hockey for 3 months, and I have a Sakic Curve for my blade.

Hope this helps!

blueberrydanish 05-20-2010 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tikkanen (Post 25894745)
Stick is too long. First thing I check when I see a teammate with a buttefly wrist shot is the length of their stick. I can't tell you how many players I run into that use sticks that are just way too long for them and it shows with their weak wrist shots. Then they'll tell me that they play defense so they need a longer stick. Dude, you're not Chris Pronger, cut your stick down.

I disagree with this especially the part about defense. My stick goes to almost my eyebrows off my skates and I have a pretty great wristshot especially for the amount of time I've played. Not to mention long sticks for defense are obviously great for....defense.

howley 05-20-2010 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarick (Post 25900944)
It's all 100% about spin on the puck.

Find a frisbee. Take it and throw it forward with your wrist completely locked. It will probably wobble and flop and drop to the ground. Now throw it snapping/flicking your wrist like normal...it will spin and sail a good distance.

Notice it will spin and sail straight without weight transfer or anything else...just flicking the wrists.

So apply this to your wrist shot...you need to get spin on the puck if you want it to fly straight and accurate.

To learn it, practice pulling the stick towards the body while shooting. Place the puck at the heel of the blade, then pull the stick towards you to roll it towards the toe. The puck will rotate. The faster you do this, the more spin you get on the puck.

Of course, this is impractical while shooting, so most people will instead open and close the blade. The puck again starts at the heel, but this time roll your wrists to cup the blade over the puck. The curve should make it so the puck is trapped at the heel. As you pull the puck across the body, roll your wrists back to open up the blade so the puck can roll down towards the toe. Finally, when releasing the shot, roll your wrists back over the puck to trap it against the blade so it will go wherever you point the stick on the follow through.

Here's a ghetto illustration:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3.../WristSnap.jpg

It's tricky to get the timing down just right, especially while you have to pull the top hand back to release the shot, but that's what practice is for!

Do this! Do it about 100,000 times and it should start to come more naturally. If your doing it right it won't feel natural at first.

Jarick 05-20-2010 03:24 PM

Yeah I'm fairly certain I can get good spin on a puck with a long stick, short stick, stiff stick, or whippy stick. If a stick is too short or long it may affect my aim (goes left or right), and if a stick is too stiff or whippy, it may affect the trajectory (goes high or slides on the ice), but it's all about the puck roll and wrist snap for pure spin.

Any chance you can get a video, even dryland?

Razzmatazz 06-01-2010 09:48 PM

First time shooting real pucks in months, off the Thrifty whiteboard, and to my horror, my pride and joy, the wrist shot, is wobbling horribly, almost at a full diagonal tilt :cry:.

kr580 06-02-2010 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razzmatazz (Post 26093755)
First time shooting real pucks in months, off the Thrifty whiteboard, and to my horror, my pride and joy, the wrist shot, is wobbling horribly, almost at a full diagonal tilt :cry:.

Retire before you suffer irreparable emotional damage.

Skraut 06-02-2010 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razzmatazz (Post 26093755)
First time shooting real pucks in months, off the Thrifty whiteboard, and to my horror, my pride and joy, the wrist shot, is wobbling horribly, almost at a full diagonal tilt :cry:.

Keep working at it, especially the wrist snap, and the closed-open-closed feeling described above.

The thing that helped me with the wrist shot was when I went from owning 10 to 40 pucks that I would shoot on my shooting pad.

It sounds stupid, but having that many more before I had to go chase them all down, really let me get in a grove, and make each one slightly improved over the next. It was that repetition, that being able to feel the shot feel "sweet" and build on. It took me a while to focus on each area of the myriad of things I needed to fix with my shot.

Steelhead16 06-02-2010 08:37 AM

The thing I see the most about a new player taking wrist shots is that they play the puck too far forward and they have their hands too close together. Both of those will cause you to "push" the puck and it will fly end over end.

Questions: Are you shooting while you're moving or standing still? And do you get any different results from moving than you do standing still.

I can explain my point above if I know more about what you are trying to do.


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