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-   -   Benoit Pouliot Appreciation (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=779840)

this providence 05-24-2010 07:47 PM

Benoit Pouliot Appreciation
 
Watching these playoffs, it seems pretty clear the Princess Pouls contracted whatever disease that Jimmy has.

It's like a splitting image out there. Falling down for absolutely no reason. Constantly taken off the puck. Relegated to the bottom lines. Pretty much invisible. Yikes.

GopherState 05-24-2010 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by this providence (Post 25983845)
Watching these playoffs, it seems pretty clear the Princess Pouls contracted whatever disease that Jimmy has.

It's like a splitting image out there. Falling down for absolutely no reason. Constantly taken off the puck. Relegated to the bottom lines. Pretty much invisible. Yikes.

He deserves his own thread, but I hear it's Risebroughitis.

I mean how can you not appreciate Benny?

this providence 05-24-2010 08:58 PM

Ha! You would make this into it's own thread wouldn't you? Now you're just asking for a flooding of Hab fans... :laugh:

Any who, since we're on the subject, I'll bring my quote over from the failure of the 2005 draft. ;)

Quote:

Thank you Princess for showing just enough potential so we could get a real player for you.

shleeban 05-24-2010 09:16 PM

ive always thought he was very talented and just needed to be more consistent, but loses motivation easy. to be honest i could see him potting 35-40 goals somewhere in a good yr. i still think hes better and cheaper then miettenen in my opinion.

GopherState 05-24-2010 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by this providence (Post 25985815)
Ha! You would make this into it's own thread wouldn't you? Now you're just asking for a flooding of Hab fans... :laugh:

Probably, but they can appreciate him like the rest of us.

mnwildgophers 05-25-2010 01:20 AM

Good ole' Benny, hopefully this doesn't happen with Latendresse next year...

rynryn 05-25-2010 07:42 AM

wonder what the Habs are going to offer him to stick around? or will they bother at all?

BigT2002 05-25-2010 10:33 AM

He was doing so amazing for the Habs right away, I seriously hope the guy just is injured or something because he was showing his potential finally.

saywut 05-25-2010 10:43 AM

He can't carry a line, and when he is the best player on the line he'll try to carry it, which is why he failed here. He had success with Gomez/Gionta because on that line he could trust his linemates to make plays, and carry the puck up ice instead of him. Montreal will obviously bring him back but he's wasted in the bottom-6, they need to put him back with Gomez/Gionta if they want him to succeed.

BigT2002 05-25-2010 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywut (Post 25992706)
He can't carry a line, and when he is the best player on the line he'll try to carry it, which is why he failed here. He had success with Gomez/Gionta because on that line he could trust his linemates to make plays, and carry the puck up ice instead of him. Montreal will obviously bring him back but he's wasted in the bottom-6, they need to put him back with Gomez/Gionta if they want him to succeed.

Some would argue, that is the same reason he failed here....

Jarick 05-25-2010 11:59 AM

I really liked Pouliot and thought he had great potential, but his work ethic just isn't there and his skating isn't great either. Could be the same problem, lack of offseason workouts leading to poor strength and balance on skates. I always thought he could be a (very) poor man's Jagr if he worked hard enough, he had good speed and a similar skating style and frame, just needed to build some lower body strength and play every game with some determination. Instead, he seems to float around and doesn't play like he cares.

GopherState 05-25-2010 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT2002 (Post 25993676)
Some would argue, that is the same reason he failed here....

That's exactly how I see it. I don't understand why Lemaire kept him up on the big club if he was only going to play him with Boogaard and the likes.

rynryn 05-25-2010 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywut (Post 25992706)
He can't carry a line, and when he is the best player on the line he'll try to carry it, which is why he failed here. He had success with Gomez/Gionta because on that line he could trust his linemates to make plays, and carry the puck up ice instead of him. Montreal will obviously bring him back but he's wasted in the bottom-6, they need to put him back with Gomez/Gionta if they want him to succeed.

i know, and i was saying that all along too. he isn't cut out to be a grinder or play defensive hockey...sure, it limits his value, but he could be decent if he's only the second or third most skilled player on his line. He'll disappear for a few games at a time, too, but he'd at least be more useful than Mittens in a scoring winger role IMO. it isn't saying much, but it's something.

Fel 96 05-26-2010 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnwildgophers (Post 25989549)
Good ole' Benny, hopefully this doesn't happen with Latendresse next year...

If he continues to play with good players like last year, I'd be surprised if he can't produce.


as for Pouliot, one word: invisible.

Jarick 05-26-2010 09:23 AM

There's a great article about Latendresse at From The Rink talking about his ridiculous shooting percentage and how he would be unable to sustain that for next year. Basically, Lats' scored 6 more goals than expected based off his career shooting percentage.

If we extrapolate his shots per game from his time in Minny over 82 games, he'll likely have 168 shots. His career shooting percentage is 13%, with Minny he was 16.9%, and let's say he splits that difference for 15%. He would end up with 25 goals next year...that's not bad, but it's certainly not 40. And that's why I'm hoping we don't end up giving him big money this summer. If he wants that, do another one year contract and prove that your production is going to be that high.

mnwildgophers 05-26-2010 10:14 AM

I don't think we sign him to a big contract simply because of that, you have one good half of year and suddenly get $3mil? I say you let him prove it again and then we'll sign him to a long-term deal. Latendresse has shown us he has all the skills to be a scorer, so let's hope he continues this trend.

LyricalLyricist 05-29-2010 02:59 AM

You guys are rough. At a certain point Pouliot had better GPG ratio than latendresse. He just lost confidence easily. He's a good player, don't be harsh. lol It was a good trade, I'd do it again to be honest.

this providence 05-29-2010 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist (Post 26044349)
At a certain point Pouliot had better GPG ratio than latendresse.

Cool?

That's all well and good but at no point was he a better player in his professional career. When you consider what the Habs were missing to make them a real threat in these playoffs, trading Latendresse was a monumental mistake.

rynryn 05-29-2010 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by this providence (Post 26045163)
Cool?

That's all well and good but at no point was he a better player in his professional career. When you consider what the Habs were missing to make them a real threat in these playoffs, trading Latendresse was a monumental mistake.

It worked out well for Montreal in a "what have you done for me lately" sense. Without Pou's little burst of scoring would the Habs be in the playoffs? they weren't getting squat from Lats at the time and likely wouldn't have because of how they were playing him. It was still a good trade for Montreal last year considering they were willing to give Pou a higher profile role where Lats wasn't going to be given the chance.

saywut 05-29-2010 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by this providence (Post 26045163)
Cool?

That's all well and good but at no point was he a better player in his professional career. When you consider what the Habs were missing to make them a real threat in these playoffs, trading Latendresse was a monumental mistake.

Tell me, how many goals did Latendresse score without Havlat on the ice?
Trading Pouliot could be a monumental mistake for us. He has 30 goal upside, he showed it with Montreal this year. I don't get why you guys bash a player who basically was told by 2 separate coaches that he had to produce while playing with Derek Boogaard, something Sidney Crosby would have issues doing.
If Pouliot plays with Gomez and Gionta next year, I expect him to outscore Latendresse.

You guys are just trying to make GMCF look like a savior. Lets look at his 4 trades:

Moved down a few spots and picked up a 3rd rounder in the draft. Reached for Nick Leddy. Fleeced.

Our 2nd round pick in 2011(weak class) + 4th round pick(Fallstrom) for Kobasew and 500k(Weller), which only increased our committed cap for 2010/11 while making us a better team by a few points, costing us spots in the draft. I like Kobasew, but for the end result, was clearly not worth it. Fleeced.

A struggling young player for another. Both showed flashes with their new clubs. A win-win to this point.


Our #1 d-man(rental) and #1 pick(Leddy) for a 3M #6 d-man on Chicago. I'd say we got fleeced.

So in reality, he hasn't fleeced anyone yet, but has been fleeced 3 times! We're just lucky that it hasn't cost us any huge assets(other than the wasted 1st on Leddy).

mnwildgophers 05-29-2010 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywut (Post 26046186)
Tell me, how many goals did Latendresse score without Havlat on the ice?
Trading Pouliot could be a monumental mistake for us. He has 30 goal upside, he showed it with Montreal this year. I don't get why you guys bash a player who basically was told by 2 separate coaches that he had to produce while playing with Derek Boogaard, something Sidney Crosby would have issues doing.
If Pouliot plays with Gomez and Gionta next year, I expect him to outscore Latendresse.

You guys are just trying to make GMCF look like a savior. Lets look at his 4 trades:

Moved down a few spots and picked up a 3rd rounder in the draft. Reached for Nick Leddy. Fleeced.

Our 2nd round pick in 2011(weak class) + 4th round pick(Fallstrom) for Kobasew and 500k(Weller), which only increased our committed cap for 2010/11 while making us a better team by a few points, costing us spots in the draft. I like Kobasew, but for the end result, was clearly not worth it. Fleeced.

A struggling young player for another. Both showed flashes with their new clubs. A win-win to this point.


Our #1 d-man(rental) and #1 pick(Leddy) for a 3M #6 d-man on Chicago. I'd say we got fleeced.

So in reality, he hasn't fleeced anyone yet, but has been fleeced 3 times! We're just lucky that it hasn't cost us any huge assets(other than the wasted 1st on Leddy).

While Pouls could end up getting more points than Latendresse this year, he wasn't going to be doing it here. If he does it for the Habs, what do we care as Wild fans as long as Latendresse is potting 25-30 goals a year?

Secondly, how in the hell were we fleeced by trading our #12 to get an additional 3rd and 7th rounder? You know who we picked with those 2 picks? Erik Haula(#182) and Matthew Hackett(#77).

The Kobasew trade is...well, I wouldn't say a fleecing at all as he will be serviceable and he is quick. He should have a better year next year, but this trade was trying to jumpstart the guys more than anything, it wasn't great, but wasn't horrible. Probably amounts to nothing.

Latendresse for Pouliot, working out for right now. We got a young power forward who most likely will score 20-25 goals a year we hope now with Havlat with him.

Whether Johnsson was our #1 dman is debatable, but this is essentially Barker for Leddy. Leddy could end up being really good, but GMCF wanted to infuse NHL-ready talent into the roster, and what's better than a guy who has already put up 40 points in a season? Sure, he wasn't a stud like we thought he might be, but hopefully he comes out and has some passion this year.

GMCF has done a lot in his time here, and I'd say the majority of it was positive. The Barker trade was one that we won't be able to judge for a couple of years. We also forget about the trade that sent Brodziak and a 5th for like a 4th and 5th round pick. He was a good player on our 3rd line if you ask me, not much else to say about that trade, but probably a trade that won't matter too much.

I don't think he has really been fleeced or has fleeced anyone, but at least he is making moves that make some sense.

LyricalLyricist 05-30-2010 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by this providence (Post 26045163)
Cool?

That's all well and good but at no point was he a better player in his professional career. When you consider what the Habs were missing to make them a real threat in these playoffs, trading Latendresse was a monumental mistake.

Like i said, at a certain point, he had a better GPG this year than latendresse. Latendresse is a good player and I'm glad to see most of you think he's a 25-30 goal scorer, some people are saying 40...let me tell you...I watched him for years, not gonna happen lol 25-30 is reasonable, but like i said, lats was kind of discouraged, i dont think he liked his role and in consequence it showed. I hope it works out for both teams, so far, it improved both teams IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rynryn (Post 26045621)
It worked out well for Montreal in a "what have you done for me lately" sense. Without Pou's little burst of scoring would the Habs be in the playoffs? they weren't getting squat from Lats at the time and likely wouldn't have because of how they were playing him. It was still a good trade for Montreal last year considering they were willing to give Pou a higher profile role where Lats wasn't going to be given the chance.

Pretty much dead on. I think this trade will be compared years from now, but it improved both teams and no one should be looking back.

LyricalLyricist 05-30-2010 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywut (Post 26046186)
Tell me, how many goals did Latendresse score without Havlat on the ice?
Trading Pouliot could be a monumental mistake for us. He has 30 goal upside, he showed it with Montreal this year. I don't get why you guys bash a player who basically was told by 2 separate coaches that he had to produce while playing with Derek Boogaard, something Sidney Crosby would have issues doing.
If Pouliot plays with Gomez and Gionta next year, I expect him to outscore Latendresse.

You guys are just trying to make GMCF look like a savior. Lets look at his 4 trades:

Moved down a few spots and picked up a 3rd rounder in the draft. Reached for Nick Leddy. Fleeced.

Our 2nd round pick in 2011(weak class) + 4th round pick(Fallstrom) for Kobasew and 500k(Weller), which only increased our committed cap for 2010/11 while making us a better team by a few points, costing us spots in the draft. I like Kobasew, but for the end result, was clearly not worth it. Fleeced.

A struggling young player for another. Both showed flashes with their new clubs. A win-win to this point.


Our #1 d-man(rental) and #1 pick(Leddy) for a 3M #6 d-man on Chicago. I'd say we got fleeced.

So in reality, he hasn't fleeced anyone yet, but has been fleeced 3 times! We're just lucky that it hasn't cost us any huge assets(other than the wasted 1st on Leddy).

I think pouliot and latendresse will be about even in their careers, I just like pouliot better. I was tired of seeing latendresse play without fire and drive. When he got traded he woke up a bit. Lats didnt fit habs system well, pouliot did way better. While trading pouliot could be a mistake for you guys, in a never say never sense, I think both teams will be happy about this one. Maybe more so you guys cuz pouliot did zero with you guys, whereas lats will still a 15-20 goal scorer with us.

saywut 05-30-2010 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnwildgophers (Post 26055445)
While Pouls could end up getting more points than Latendresse this year, he wasn't going to be doing it here. If he does it for the Habs, what do we care as Wild fans as long as Latendresse is potting 25-30 goals a year?

He wasn't doing it here because he was stuck on the 4th line with Derek Boogaard. When did Pouliot ever get the chance to continuously play in our top-6? I can't remember seeing him there for more than 5 straight periods in the regular season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnwildgophers (Post 26055445)
Secondly, how in the hell were we fleeced by trading our #12 to get an additional 3rd and 7th rounder? You know who we picked with those 2 picks? Erik Haula(#182) and Matthew Hackett(#77).

#12 for #16, 77 and 182
Columbus got #26, 37, 62, and 92 for #16 and 77.
Why didn't we just make the one simple trade down from #12 to #26(Leddy would have been here, or else we would have got a better player from my POV), adding 37(You could say Budish, Werek, Shore, Chiasson, etc. THIS IS THE FREEBIE WE ADD IN THIS SITUATION), #62(you can say Hackett here) and #92.
Islanders made both those trades, so don't tell me we couldn't have got that package.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnwildgophers (Post 26055445)
The Kobasew trade is...well, I wouldn't say a fleecing at all as he will be serviceable and he is quick. He should have a better year next year, but this trade was trying to jumpstart the guys more than anything, it wasn't great, but wasn't horrible. Probably amounts to nothing.

He made us better, costing us picks in the draft, while he was certainly not going to make us a playoff contender. And now were paying him 2.33M for this year as well. You don't make this trade, we lose ~6points in the standings(would have made us into the top-5), still have 2.33M more cap space and our 2nd in 2011, which gives us the option of trying to sign an RFA this summer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnwildgophers (Post 26055445)
Whether Johnsson was our #1 dman is debatable, but this is essentially Barker for Leddy. Leddy could end up being really good, but GMCF wanted to infuse NHL-ready talent into the roster, and what's better than a guy who has already put up 40 points in a season? Sure, he wasn't a stud like we thought he might be, but hopefully he comes out and has some passion this year.

We gave up on a 1st round pick in 8 months to help a cap-starved team shed a 3M contract of a player who was their #6 d-man, while allowing them to have our best d-man as a rental(and no, its not debatable, KJ was our best d-man). Why didn't we just deal KJ for a pick/prospect and keep our 1st round pick? How does Barker fit an up-tempo system when he can barely skate? How does spending 3+M on a #5 d-man(Schultz or Barker, your pick) help us improve our forward group? Between this and the Kobasew trade we lost almost 5.5M of cap space, and what did we get out of it? 2 bodies we could have signed equal talents for half the price in UFA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnwildgophers (Post 26055445)
GMCF has done a lot in his time here, and I'd say the majority of it was positive. The Barker trade was one that we won't be able to judge for a couple of years. We also forget about the trade that sent Brodziak and a 5th for like a 4th and 5th round pick. He was a good player on our 3rd line if you ask me, not much else to say about that trade, but probably a trade that won't matter too much.

Brodziak trade meant nothing to me because it was GMCF saying he wanted a familiar guy instead of Olvecky/Fritsche as a player on this team. Picks outside the top couple rounds are pretty much irrelevant as well, especially with TT running the draft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnwildgophers (Post 26055445)
I don't think he has really been fleeced or has fleeced anyone, but at least he is making moves that make some sense.

One move made sense, and that was because our coach disliked Benoit Pouliot. The draft trade-down was the right idea, just the lack of return on a huge reach was disappointing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist (Post 26057022)
I think pouliot and latendresse will be about even in their careers, I just like pouliot better. I was tired of seeing latendresse play without fire and drive. When he got traded he woke up a bit. Lats didnt fit habs system well, pouliot did way better. While trading pouliot could be a mistake for you guys, in a never say never sense, I think both teams will be happy about this one. Maybe more so you guys cuz pouliot did zero with you guys, whereas lats will still a 15-20 goal scorer with us.

I said for years that Benoit would have success if given the opportunity with skilled players. And when he got traded, he did, and he had success. You could see the talent when he played here, just no trust in his linemates, understandable when you're playing with Derek Boogaard.

this providence 05-30-2010 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywut (Post 26059724)
One move made sense, and that was because our coach disliked Benoit Pouliot.

I would say that it wasn't just one coach that disliked Pouliot. He had issues with every single coach within this organization. It took a coach who was very familiar with him, in that he works with him every offseason, to even consider bringing Pouliot on. At a certain point, it's no longer just a coincidence that coaches do not care for his attitude or work ethic.

Even Martin who has the utmost trust in the kid demoted him down to the 3rd and 4th lines, even sat him a game because he couldn't be responsible on the ice. Nor was he producing on the Gomez line, going 20+ games without tallying a goal, which is now stretched up to 30+.

When you spend your entire professional career in an organization and build up the reputation Pouliot did here, of coarse he's going to have to earn his way into ice time with capable players. If not, you're heading down a slippery slope while the other players see his lack of commitment and work ethic only to be rewarded for doing not much of anything to get there.

In both Pouliot and Latendresse cases, they were moved to a new situation to start anew without the burdens they carried with their previous organizations. Thus it's much more understandable to give them a shot on the top lines because they do not carry the same baggage with them.

I agree with a lot of your other points, just not this one. Pouliot worked his way out of ever earning a legitimate shot with this organization. And like it or not, that rests squarely on his shoulders.


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