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-   -   The Sun: Kulemin talks at standstill: Kulemin wants NHL contract. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=780956)

Budsfan 05-28-2010 07:54 AM

Kulemin talks at standstill: Kulemin wants NHL contract.
 
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/hoc.../14165931.html

Quote:

“What he is asking for is not what we are prepared to pay,” the Leafs general manager said Thursday, when asked why he and Kulemin’s agent, Gary Greenstin, keep giving identical terse quotes on the subject. “I think his agent is a good guy. But we will grind on and see what happens.”

There are rumours Kulemin is seeking $3 million US or higher after 36 points in 78 games, though the 23-year-old was one of the team’s most improved players
I think 3 million, is about what I thought he would be looking for, maybe Burke is thinking 2-2.5, Lets hope a deal can be had, Kulemin is a good player, I would hate to lose him to the KHL.

Fearless 05-28-2010 08:02 AM

so that is why the signing is lagging...

Mojo19 05-28-2010 08:03 AM

Ruh roh.







Hopefully we can sign him for a bit longer term if it's $3M. Maybe 4 years at $3M? Or stagger it 2.75 - 3.0 - 3.5 - 3.75 for a cap hit of $3.25M per year. He's definitely worth it, I think Burke will accommodate him, he knows that he can't afford to lose a good prospect like Kulemin. Maybe Burke can entice him by trading for Semin?

dissociater 05-28-2010 08:09 AM

Unhappy news.

Mogwai 05-28-2010 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo027 (Post 26032387)
Ruh roh.







Hopefully we can sign him for a bit longer term if it's $3M. Maybe 4 years at $3M? Or stagger it 2.75 - 3.0 - 3.5 - 3.75 for a cap hit of $3.25M per year. He's definitely worth it, I think Burke will accommodate him, he knows that he can't afford to lose a good prospect like Kulemin. Maybe Burke can entice him by trading for Semin?

3.25/5yrs ;D

Spazmatic Dan 05-28-2010 08:16 AM

A longer term deal at 3 mil per year might work. In the short term, though, I don't think he's earned it yet. He'll probably be worth at least that in a few years.

This makes me nervous. We really can't afford to lose this guy. Something will probably get done though as it seems like he wants to stay in the NHL.

mcphllp 05-28-2010 08:20 AM

i hope the grabovski contract doesnt come back to hurt Burke.

Id think Kulemin is deserving of Grabo's contract

Andrew Mack 05-28-2010 08:22 AM

$3M is too high. He is between $1.75 to $2.25 for two or three years. We already made the mistake of giving someone $3M for showing flashes of potential in Grabovski and now everyone already wants him gone. Are we going to do the same with Kulie?

seanlinden 05-28-2010 08:25 AM

$3.25 is a gross overpayment based on what Kulemin has proven so far. $2.25 is closer to fair value.

BrannigansLaw 05-28-2010 08:36 AM

Just give him 3 million. If they let him go, then **** this organization. Grabovski gets 3 million but they don't want to give it to Kulemin who is way more valuable to us? Cmon Burke wtf.

The Naz 05-28-2010 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymack1986 (Post 26032518)
$3M is too high. He is between $1.75 to $2.25 for two or three years. We already made the mistake of giving someone $3M for showing flashes of potential in Grabovski and now everyone already wants him gone. Are we going to do the same with Kulie?

Agreed.

Everyone is excited about the potential of Kulemin, but don't forget, there is a chance he does not improve significantly enough to justify 3M. If he can't score 50 pts and bring that rugged game consistently, then he is not worth it. And not to pinhole him with a hockey stereotype, but who's to say he is going to coast after signing a great contract. So many players seem to do this, just like Grabovski. Then we are stuck with yet another overpaid underacheiver.

I don't think this is going to end well. Either overpaid or in the K. Best case scenario would be a 2 year deal at his requested money. It would keep him honest as far as effort is concerned, unless he's happy with 1 contract, in which case, he won't to hard to trade or demote.

dubey 05-28-2010 08:38 AM

$3M for 31 and 36 point seasons lol

Is Kulemin eligible for arbitration? It might just end up going there.
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrannigansLaw (Post 26032628)
Just give him 3 million. If they let him go, then **** this organization. Grabovski gets 3 million but they don't want to give it to Kulemin who is way more valuable to us? Cmon Burke wtf.

lol

Grabovski's contract was obviously a mistake and I wouldn't be surprised if he's traded in the offseason. He still produced more than Kulemin did though.

Andrew Mack 05-28-2010 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfried (Post 26032537)
$3.25 is a gross overpayment based on what Kulemin has proven so far. $2.25 is closer to fair value.

Even $2.25 is an overpayment, but I think we could all swallow it because we are confident that he can grow into a good second line player. But seriously, Nikolai has not been able to translate his offensive game he had in Russia, so before we start thinking north of $3M then he has to put up quite some consecutive 25-goal seasons in my opinion. Ponikarovsky, who was shelled constantly by us this season, still made less than what Nik was looking for even after proving he had consistent second liner production and five consecutive 20-goal seasons (well, one season w/ 19).

Kulie has to take a bridge contract offer for two or three years at least before he starts looking at big money. If not, have fun with -30 weather, twelve hour flights between games, and borscht.

The Naz 05-28-2010 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrannigansLaw (Post 26032628)
Just give him 3 million. If they let him go, then **** this organization. Grabovski gets 3 million but they don't want to give it to Kulemin who is way more valuable to us? Cmon Burke wtf.

He's only worth that based on popularity. His actual value is less then 2.5 IMO. Grabs was scoreing near a PPG at the end of last season. He was showing signs of being either a really good 2nd line center or a decent 1st liner. 3M isn't too bad for that kinda production. 36 pts is not worth that money.

Transplanted Caper 05-28-2010 08:42 AM

If he wants $3m, he can enjoy the KHL. A good all around player, but not a great all around player. Can he become one? Probably, let him prove it, then he gets his pay day.

Grabovski 05-28-2010 08:43 AM

Come on Kulemin! We NEED you!

BrannigansLaw 05-28-2010 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubey (Post 26032639)
$3M for 31 and 36 point seasons lol

Is Kulemin eligible for arbitration? It might just end up going there.

lol

Grabovski's contract was obviously a mistake and I wouldn't be surprised if he's traded in the offseason. He still produced more than Kulemin did though.

Honestly, after watching this organization constantly overpay for crap players, I really wouldn't mind if they overpaid for a good player for once. One that actually has potential.

Andrew Mack 05-28-2010 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrannigansLaw (Post 26032628)
Just give him 3 million. If they let him go, then **** this organization. Grabovski gets 3 million but they don't want to give it to Kulemin who is way more valuable to us? Cmon Burke wtf.

Grabovski at least had a 20-goal, 50-point rookie season, and even after an impressive year like that it still is looking like a tough pill to swallow. This should be an example showing as to why we shouldn't do the same with Kulemin, not that we should do it all over again.

The Naz 05-28-2010 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrannigansLaw (Post 26032682)
Honestly, after watching this organization constantly overpay for crap players, I really wouldn't mind if they overpaid for a good player for once. One that actually has potential.

The thing is he's not that good a player yet! 36 pts is nothing to brag about when your playing with Kessel and a Bozak.

His "potential" is only based on his age. Just because he's young, it doesn't mean he should get paid what like what he seems he might become.

BrannigansLaw 05-28-2010 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgar Cayce (Post 26032705)
The thing is he's not that good a player yet! 36 pts is nothing to brag about when your playing with Kessel and a Bozak.

His "potential" is only based on his age. Just because he's young, it doesn't mean he should get paid what like what he seems he might become.

No, his potential is based on the flashes of offensive skill and and consistently gritty play. He is easily our best two-way forward at his young age. It's not all about points, which as a Schenn fan I'm sure you'll understand.

Andrew Mack 05-28-2010 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgar Cayce (Post 26032705)
The thing is he's not that good a player yet! 36 pts is nothing to brag about when your playing with Kessel and a Bozak.

His "potential" is only based on his age. Just because he's young, it doesn't mean he should get paid what like what he seems he might become.

Also add in the fact that for years most scouts have maintained that he will become a good third-liner who is defensively responsible and can chip in between 15-20 goals. If the projections since day one prove true, Kulemin is already what he is; a great role player with inconsistent offensive skills.

It is only hype that is predicting this amazing creative offensive player buried deep inside him. We've watched Nik for two seasons now, and he has one play in the offensive zone. If he does surprisingly become a 25+ goal scorer, that is great, but he isn't projected to become one and he hasn't shown any of that to me. But I'm willing to live with him being a defensive forward because frankly we need one and he has been great at it. It still doesn't mean we should back the garbage truck of money up at his front door.

mbrooks 05-28-2010 08:55 AM

If Grabovski is worth 2.9M per season Kulemin should get $4M, but that is not the point I guess.

I was assuming Kulemin is a $3M guy, he is the Leafs best defensive forward, and I think that has got to count for something.

musty sweater 05-28-2010 08:58 AM

If it goes to arbitration he will not receive 3M. If he wants to stay in Toronto so bad then he will accept a short-term bridge contract.

Andrew Mack 05-28-2010 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbrooks (Post 26032779)
If Grabovski is worth 2.9M per season Kulemin should get $4M, but that is not the point I guess.

I was assuming Kulemin is a $3M guy, he is the Leafs best defensive forward, and I think that has got to count for something.

Jere Lehtinen is one of the best defensive forwards in the league and has won the Selke Trophy three times. He is paid $1.5M, with $1M in bonuses. That seems like a good benchmark.

Moray 05-28-2010 09:05 AM

I really like Kuly, but if he's asking for 3 and won't bydge down to 2 at the most. I'd have no problems moving him


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