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-   -   Would European fans care if Canada and the US pulled out of the World Championships? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=781270)

Mr Kanadensisk 05-29-2010 06:33 AM

Would European fans care if Canada and the US pulled out of the World Championships?
 
I don't think anyone would disagree that the IHWC are much much more popular in Europe than they are in North America. I'm interested to hear from European fans about how they would feel if the NA teams pulled out of the IHWC.

Personally I think the best thing would be to change the IHWC to a European Championship for the top European players playing outside of the NHL / AHL. At least this way the number of players who decline invitiations to play should go down dramatically.

Would a tournament of this kind still be as popular in Europe as the current IHWC format?

ts 05-29-2010 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk (Post 26044752)
I don't think anyone would disagree that the IHWC are much much more popular in Europe than they are in North America. I'm interested to hear from European fans about how they would feel if the NA teams pulled out of the IHWC.

Personally I think the best thing would be to change the IHWC to a European Championship for the top European players playing outside of the NHL / AHL. At least this way the number of players who decline invitiations to play should go down dramatically.

Would a tournament of this kind still be as popular in Europe as the current IHWC format?

What about the olympic games then? Are you willing to play in qualifiying rounds so that Canada/Usa can participate at the OG?

Why not just make it like the mid 90s, where Canada and the USA played at the WC but mostly with pros from European leagues? It was enough to stay in the A group and for Canada to win a medal sometimes (well, most of the time, the USA got relegated once) and if you don't care about the tournement, then it doesn't matter if Canada has a chance to win or will only finish 4th/5th...

Franck 05-29-2010 07:08 AM

Don't try and fix what is not broken, is the only thing I have to say about this suggestion.

JVR 05-29-2010 07:08 AM

I wouldn't really care but I'm sure the sponsors and IIHF would.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ts (Post 26044766)
Why not just make it like the mid 90s, where Canada and the USA played at the WC but mostly with pros from European leagues? It was enough to stay in the A group and for Canada to win a medal sometimes (well, most of the time, the USA got relegated once) and if you don't care about the tournement, then it doesn't matter if Canada has a chance to win or will only finish 4th/5th...

Exactly.
People always forget that despite the declinations we see today
both US and Canada actually sent much "worse" squads in the past than
nowadays.

Did fans care about that back then, how was the general attitude?
I wish we had hfboards back then so that we could read those threads
now. :D

(since when does hockey's future and this forum excist anyway? Someone
needs to create a Wiki-article)

Sergei Makarov 05-29-2010 07:26 AM

If Canada and USA don't want to take part in the WC, it's ok. But that would mean also to renounce to the Olympics and the WJC.

TheMoreYouKnow 05-29-2010 07:42 AM

Personally I'd rather watch a team of Canadian minor leaguers and U.S. college boys than no teams from those countries at all, but as long as the U.S. and Canada will fully participate in the Olympics and there's maybe the World Cup of Hockey as well, I'd be fine with it.

Geric 05-29-2010 08:16 AM

If Canada and the US pulled out of the WHC, they can say goodbye to having the World Juniors in North America.

Nakawick 05-29-2010 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov (Post 26044886)
If Canada and USA don't want to take part in the WC, it's ok. But that would mean also to renounce to the Olympics and the WJC.

That would be good for Russia :sarcasm:

Betman has doubts about NHL players at the WHC.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=322928

Maelmoor 05-29-2010 08:57 AM

As I wrote in the other thread, the hockey world cannot afford to be split, we are a small sport and need to stand together to spread and promote hockey, not fight among each others about petty things.

Nakawick 05-29-2010 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelmoor (Post 26045231)
As I wrote in the other thread, the hockey world cannot afford to be split, we are a small sport and need to stand together to spread and promote hockey, not fight among each others about petty things.

It is virtually impossible to have a best on best each year. It is one thing for the players in the NHL not to go, but what about the players playing in Europe who decline to play? I doubt that Canada and the US would ever pull out of the tournament.

ARS 05-29-2010 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricG (Post 26045048)
If Canada and the US pulled out of the WHC, they can say goodbye to having the World Juniors in North America.

Although the IIHF would use the WJHC as leverage if such a case ever arose, the WJHC is mutually beneficial for all parties involved, the IIHF would be just as hurt as USA Hockey and Hockey Canada by not having the WJHC in North America ever again.

Nordic* 05-29-2010 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuloGulo (Post 26045274)
If 29 teams folded the Maple Leafs would have a chance to win the Stanley Cup.

They'd have a chance, but still somehow manage to get eliminated from the playoffs.

Qurpiz 05-29-2010 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk (Post 26044752)
I don't think anyone would disagree that the IHWC are much much more popular in Europe than they are in North America. I'm interested to hear from European fans about how they would feel if the NA teams pulled out of the IHWC.

Personally I think the best thing would be to change the IHWC to a European Championship for the top European players playing outside of the NHL / AHL. At least this way the number of players who decline invitiations to play should go down dramatically.

Would a tournament of this kind still be as popular in Europe as the current IHWC format?

How would you feel if European countries pulled out of the WJHC?

I mean really, that tournament is nothing but a distraction for all our young players, and their clubs. Their clubs have to go without their young star for 2 or more weeks in the middle of the season. And the tournament isn't even popular anywhere except Canada.

Kurrilino 05-29-2010 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelmoor (Post 26045231)
As I wrote in the other thread, the hockey world cannot afford to be split, we are a small sport and need to stand together to spread and promote hockey, not fight among each others about petty things.

It's already split...........

you have the Europeans who send their best players and have time to develope as a team.
And you have the NOrth Americans where the best players are not available
and most of the rest simply isn't interested to play at the WC.
Alone this fact makes the WC to a side show.
I think, that makes more damage to the sport than splitting up and have just one large olympic tournemant.

Like a poster before me wrote, is makes a lot of sense to send a junior or college team mixed with players who already play in Europe.

joe89 05-29-2010 09:55 AM

Could they even remain associated with IIHF and compete in other tournaments if they withdrew from WCH competition? World rankings would be screwed for instance. You'd probably have to kiss World Juniors good bye etc. that is a well liked tournament in North America because you get to see drafted/soon to be drafted players from all countries.

Like someone said, start sending European squads instead. It will be as competitive as the Czech, Finnish and Swedish teams even if you think we have some star teams and you only send "NHL scrubs that don't care". Please look at these countries' rosters this year and compare to your Canadian roster. We sent our Team D.

zorz 05-29-2010 10:05 AM

Why would anybody want to do this? I think nobody has some serious reason to be interested in something like this.

PhillyPhinn 05-29-2010 10:05 AM

I wouldn't care if they cancelled the WCH altogether.

Drake1588 05-29-2010 10:28 AM

I personally liked a system wherein players who played in the NHL knew well in advance, as they started their careers, that they were not going to play in the Olympics... so dangling the threat of non-participation in the Olympics paired up with non-participation in the World Championships is not an issue.

The only issue I can foresee is how to resolve the WJCs, which regardless of the widely varying level of spectator interest in countries not named Canada, remains a top scouting event prior to the NHL draft. Of course, they could simply scout the Memorial Cup, Frozen Four, and WJCs to scout Canadians, Americans and Europeans, respectively. It's not like you couldn't scout anymore. So I'm on board with the withdrawal idea.

The old system wherein the World Cup / Canada Cup NHL invitational, involving entirely or almost entirely NHL players, was the top tournament in the world suited me just fine. I'm not a real fan of the NHL at the Olympics. A quadrennial World Cup of Hockey would serve the same purpose: The best players in the world meeting in a best-on-best format for bragging rights. You can also limit the teams to eight or so, and get fewer lopsided games.

RewBicks 05-29-2010 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov (Post 26044886)
If Canada and USA don't want to take part in the WC, it's ok. But that would mean also to renounce to the Olympics and the WJC.

Why, exactly, would that have to be the case? It's a ridiculous proposition, the two are not necessarily linked, only in practice. When it comes to the Olympics and the dollars that would be involved, precedent is easy to change.

RewBicks 05-29-2010 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qurpiz (Post 26045410)
How would you feel if European countries pulled out of the WJHC?

I mean really, that tournament is nothing but a distraction for all our young players, and their clubs. Their clubs have to go without their young star for 2 or more weeks in the middle of the season. And the tournament isn't even popular anywhere except Canada.

The ONLY reason the tournament isn't regularly alternated back and forth is because nobody in Europe ever attends the damn thing. Not so the WHC. And before I hear "there's only two countries in NA", I'll remind you that over half the players in the world come from those countries.

joshjull 05-29-2010 11:12 AM

I don't get the point of this thread.

Is there some movement I'm not aware of in the Canadian and American hockey associations to do this?


Why would either one pull out?


This tourney is a development tool for the various national programs. No need to get rid of it.

RusskiyHockey 05-29-2010 11:22 AM

No one should pull out of anything, that's just childish. Canada and the US always have more than enough players lining up to play for their country, regardless of the event. Countries that can only muster a B or C team - that's their own problem, decreasing their chances of winning a medal. Pulling out is the cowardly thing to do.

Regarding the NHL "boycotting" the WC, who or what exactly is going to stop players from going? Will Bettman and his goons knock on Ovechkin's/Vokoun's/Stamkos'/etc. door and take their family away or something? If a player is eliminated from the playoffs and passes the medical, he should be able to represent his country if he wants to.

droller* 05-29-2010 11:24 AM

I'm guessing OP thinks the world of Brian Burke and stands behind his comments. I agree with Burke to the extent that they shouldn't be bashing CA/US top players after they've played well over 100 games this year.

I'm pretty confident both Canada and the USA could have iced better teams this WC. Both nations sent a very young group to compete against professional men. There had to be more balance between veterans and youth like in years past.. this year they were just way too young an inexperienced.

Not going isn't an option IMO. It would totally mess with rankings and qualifications to participate in other events. International ice hockey is awesome, and personally I like PVRing the games and watching them when I wakeup :).

ts 05-29-2010 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RewBicks (Post 26046042)
Why, exactly, would that have to be the case? It's a ridiculous proposition, the two are not necessarily linked, only in practice. When it comes to the Olympics and the dollars that would be involved, precedent is easy to change.

For 2010 the nine frirst ranked teams according to the IIHF ranking were directly qualifid for Vancouver the other 3 teams had to go through qualifying rounds.

If Canada/the USA won't play at the World Championships they would have to play in qualifying rounds. Either that or they would have to change the qualifying system.
I dunno if it's possible to declare them fix starters at the olympic games but I can't imagine that the IOC will allow that. I can't think of an olympic sport where they have fix starters, AFAIK teams either have to qualify by specific games or by a ranking system.

Rather they would change the system so the first 7 or 8 teams according to the IIHF ranking are directly quaified and 5/4 teams had to play some qualifying games. In the latter case Canada and the USA would still have to play with even worse teams against some other countries, so what would they win? Less games but even worse interesst in their countries.

Why not just start with non NHL'ers? There are enough Canadian/American hockey players in Europe alone to ice teams that are good enough to rank in the top 10 over the years. And they still could add North American juniors or minor league players.

Or leave it as it is, send players from the NHL that want to go. Just let the critics do their talk and let the players play, if they decide to go.

mlandry 05-29-2010 11:30 AM

I've never paid any attention to this event and I couldn't even tell you who won this year or any other year. I think there is enough hockey already with the playoffs.


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